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#69 Added by Icus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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3 The reward of baiting ex-Aris homins - quite a few of whom are livid about all this - and cannot understand - in terms of keeping the game alive - why this is happening. No new homin is going to sit through umpteen years of role play before they role play - but anything they do or suggest in role play will be destroyed by French Role players

When i arrived on Aniro, i didn't felt bullied, and could suggest/do things very soon (almost too soon because i didn't knew anything and i actually did some mistake, but in the end it solved good, and it's things like that which makes RP fun). People coming after me (in case you were wondering if i was the one bullying) didn't had that problem (or i didn't heard of it). So i guess you are kind of paranoiac about that, sorry :(

Sorry to hear the Taliari ordered anti-marauder guards. I always find it suspicious that they sort of "smell out" homins. I'm sort of fine with it during a war (in the Temple Wars, the military camps were secured that way), but it might be doubtful from a RP perspective with something like a fair. There it should be enough to watch it and throw out people who behave disrespectful or more than just a little suspicious.

I agree, but it's not limited to anti-marauder guard, all guard working on fame have the same problem. For marauder you could argue that most of them are probably wearing their guild badge, and the marauder guild are probably known by guards all over atys. But still, it isn't a really good explanation : you can't really know whi is someone who isn't wearing a badge but with a full HA ; yes, it's a suspect behaviour in a city, but not a reason to attack on sight ^^

(This is where I found the French "extremists" irrational, manichaeic, hypocritical, and simply incomprehensible, and, moreover, shitty RPers. I tried hard to understand the RP e.g. of Icus but miserably failed, especially as I refuse the notion that he is simply an idiot which he is definitely not).

Well, none of Icus relatives went to the dark side, so it's kinda hard to speak about it :) the only people who left went to the ranger or the tryker, and he kept good relationship with them. He even have some matis friend (well, not matis vassal, of course !) !

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#70 Added by Maximus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Daomei

As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :

MarauderBoard

HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Maximus (10 years ago)

#71 Added by Daomei 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Your position, Maximus. I have friends who are marauders. I do like them though I do not like them to be marauders. I had friends in RL, btw. who have joined the FTP, and were hidden sometimes by Vichy people. They should have been deadly enemies, but life is more complex.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#72 Added by Elvanae 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Maximus (atys)

Daomei
As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be killed or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

I'd love to say I've been killing homins since decades but I was introduced to PvP quite relunctantly and since then I thoroughly enjoy killing homins in Void, OP battles and SNs.

That's besides the point.

Clearly you have no interest in reading about other people's RP (despite it being mentioned MANY times on threads such as these) because IF you had, you would have found Virg's RP posts about his guild becoming Marauder and what it means for THEM to be Marauder through his RP interpretation. He sought to bring a new interpretation to RP regarding Marauders and put in a heck of a lot of effort into it.

The whole point of RP in a game such as Ryzom is that it DEVELOPS through time. Virg attempted to do this through direct RP in respect to the Lore of Ryzom and those who RP.

No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Moderated some language.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (10 years ago)

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#73 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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damn. can't we all get along?

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Remickla (atys)

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#74 Added by Maximus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Daomei, I don't wish to continue the discussion if we are comparing point of views about the situation in Atys and what happened during WW2 or recent events.

Elvanae, just give us a link of what he did then.

And anyway, you should respect the fact that some characters created by players will not accept Marauders in cities and probably have a background that justifies that opinion. I also remind you that I was answering Daomei who said that FR players are bad RPers with bad opinions, while some choices are pretty logical and conform to the lore.

Some language edited.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (10 years ago)

#75 Added by Binarabi 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Elvanae (atys)

No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Maybe we can take heart that it is only a couple posting this obsessive attitude - I thought we had made it very clear that Aris Mara are/were different from Aniro - that our lores are different and that our role play is different - so no point in shouting on a board - no point in just repeating over and over again what the Lore says - do try to find a way of moving forward.

And thank you very much Elvanae and Daomei - what you have contributed here is a real effort in bridging this awful and depressing gap

Updated quote

Last edited by Tiximei (10 years ago)

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#76 Added by Virg 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Maximus (atys)

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Wow...

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#77 Added by Maximus 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Virg (atys)

Maximus (atys)
Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Wow...

Just to be clear, it's how my character perceives the marauders. I'm not implying it's the OOC truth nor am I implying it is how I think IRL.

#78 Added by Talkirc 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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i know right virg, kinda over the top, sure mara can be played as bad guys, and yes i've said that it's a harder way of life, but it should by no means be impossible or without rewards or perks. (i'm still waiting for the upper branches to come about, so mara can have more to do, and lands where they are treated as just another homin.)

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Remickla (atys)

Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#79 Added by Salazar 10 years ago Report | Quote [de]

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Maximus (atys)

Just to be clear, it's how my character perceives the marauders. I'm not implying it's the OOC truth nor am I implying it is how I think IRL.

As long as it is a personal opinion, it's perfectly fine. ;)

I, both as a player and a character take the position that history is written by the winners, never the loosers. Nowadays, in real life, we have so many possibilities to preserve the truth (as well as the lies), but look at mankinds past. Was Vlad Draculea as bad as they say? Almost all we have left about him is a few pages of 15th Century propaganda flyleafs. He obviously was gruesome. What we not have is the fact that most likely all the other rulers were just as bad, but had the better (paid) press.

Looking at Atys, I see the same mechanisms at work. The perception of Matis is that bad because most of what we have are the writings of Tryker and Zorai historians. Salazar, as a Matis historian, understands the traps in those; after all, it would be no point in being a historian if he wouldn't. As a politician he abstracts even more: he looks at the Marauders up there in the Matis desert and thinks about both the damage they did in Matis lands, if they did at all, as well as at the use they might have. Finally, as a priest he *knows* (as only religious people know ;) ) that Jena will have mercy on the fallen.

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#80 Added by Lacuna 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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When I went Mara there was no Mara faction left. I did not want to play Mara the way it was played on Aris or Aniro. I did not see any harm in this; I was not trying to change the Lore. I just wanted to have fun and play Mara differently from what I had seen since first discovering Ryzom. This is after all meant to be a sandbox game. I soon found out how wrong I was.

I am not an expert on Ryzom Lore, but as an anthropologist, I could talk about how lore is a narrative, and how like the real world Ryzom is a storied world, stories that we ourselves are living out. I could explain how narratives are dynamic, fluid and adaptive to the moment, and are always coming into being with their retelling. I could talk about how relevant alterity is to the Lore on Marauders. I could talk about how, in their own way, factions are as dynamic, fluid and adaptive as narratives. As Salazar mentions, I could talk about how, although history is a set of lies agreed upon, just because something never happened does not mean that it is not true. I could talk about how this could be used as means of bridging the gap between the different servers' rp and Lore. But I'm out, this is sandbox game where you are not allowed to play with the sand.

Last edited by Lacuna (10 years ago)

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#81 Added by Jazzy 10 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

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Suboxide (atys)

Salazar FH already has anti mara guards and some other towns now (they check db if you did mara rite you are kill on sight), Taliari has asked them to be added to the place where the fair will be held and event team has said yes we will add them there so mara can't show at all.

ceci est faux... Jamais les Taliari ont demandé de renforcer les gardes anti-marau. Il a uniquement été dit que (RP parlant bien evidement!) les maraudeurs n'etaient pas les bienvenus dans le monde economique des lacs, représenté par ce marché, et que l'UFA (personnages taggués joués par de de vrais joueurs) ferait son travail en sécurisant le marché.
les gardes anti-marau peuvent etre "réglés" il me semble, nous n'avons jamais reçu de retour de la part des maraudeurs (à part des attaques directes) sur ce réglage, le but de ces gardes etait d'empecher les maraudeurs d'entrer en ville facilement... pas de degouter les joueurs maraudeurs et créer ces tensions entre-communautés.

Suboxide (atys)

Mara have trainers and matis merchants in camp and today we finally got access to hairdressers and tatooist. Still not a single mission or anything tough, no occupation, no ... so it's actually mostly a death camp with guards that don't work at all. (Kind of funny they can make anti-mara guards in 12h and not pro-mara guards to protect the mara camp)

je suis entièrement d'accord avec toi! J'imagine que les maraudeurs ont déja fait la demande officiellement pour cet ajout (via mail ig a event@ryzom.com). Il est tout à fait logique que si les maraudeurs soient interdit d'entrer en ville, les non-maraudeurs soient interdit d'entrer dans le camps! (ou alors, par la force!)

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Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#82 Added by Suboxide 10 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Don't lie Jazzy pretty sure you where at that meeting:

http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=post/view/144180

There are 10 booths. Although it is a Tryker Fair, guilds from other regions are invited to hire a booth but Marauders (*2) are banned by overwhelming vote of the Taliar, they can neither attend to buy any items nor hold a booth to sell any items, in fact the guards will probably be reinforced to ensure they are allowed no where near the fair

=> i'm not gonna cover that whole forum thread but later on even Tamarea had her say wich i'm still not good from. But yes it seems tamarea says in it all abuse RP wise and other stuff against somebody choosing mara is allowed so keep going on pls. Do the whole I hate you as a person because you got a title above your head it really shows how much of a grown up you are. In real life ppl over are getting sentenced for pestering and harrasement but seems RPwise (toughth RPers always say RP is like real life) get total freedom to pest and harras ppl away from the game with the help of event team. Where those guards ever on aniro actually?

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#83 Added by Laofa 10 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

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[FR]
Suboxide, le passage que tu cite fait visiblement référence aux gardes joués par les joueurs (l'UFA). Et vous parlez des guardes PNj, que les Taliari n'ont visiblement pas demandé ? pas dans cette citation en tout cas.

Donc, non Jazzy ne ment pas. Mais la traduction semble ignorer les subtilités du langage et amener beaucoup d'incompréhension.

La traduction est à la base d'un grand nombre de mélange, dans ces histoires. Il faudrait apprendre à s'arrêter, à lire les choses plus tranquillement, à demander peut-être à un ami parlant français et anglais si ce qu'on a compris est bien ce qui est dit, en tout cas chaque fois qu'on sent la colère monter.

[EN]
(English is not my natal language, and hard for me to speak in this language, so please read my intervention with gentillesse).

Suboxide, your quote is referring to the guards played by players (UFA). And you talk about guard NPC, who Taliari seem did not ask? not in this quote anyway.

So Jazzy does not lie. But the translation seems to ignore the subtleties of language and bring a lot of misunderstanding.

The translation create a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of dudgeon too. Should learn to stop, and reading things with more quietly. Perhaps ask a friend (who speak French and English) if you understand what other people write, if a bad automatic translation don't creat angry where there are no real problem.

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Plus d'histoires ici.

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