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#66 Added by Astarth 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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In all i think anti marauder guards shouldn't exist even under the premise of RP, regarding activities such as thr fairhaven fair, we should make an effort to make events that are server inclusive, and if you are to PUSH marauders into being hateful, and fearful, then include that RP as part of the event instead of putting a ban to it. if youre doing a national event, then talk to marauders and get them to RP in tagged pvp as part of the event. but keep the current model and youll get is angry people (and with lots of reasons for it)

#67 Added by Daomei 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Well, I cannot say that I like the idea of anti marauder guards. Before the merge, the attack threshold of normal city guards was -40 fame of their nation (or -40.01, don't ask me) to attack anybody on sight no matter whether marauder or not. Only since the change, the threshold has shrunk to -50 or so equal to tribe guards. That was declared a bug though not fixed since.

It gave marauders a window to enter cities, and at least for me, it was no problem. Instead of setting up anti marauder guards with supernatural abilities to sense the faction (instead of knowing about the reputation which may be established without tapping into marauder rites) simply resetting the attack threshold to -40 would have sufficed.

Moreover, I fail to see the need for such guards right now. In former times, there have been attacks against assemblies (or at least tagged players inside assemblies) but those attacks have largely subsided.

Concerning the FH fair, I can understand a decision of the Taliari to disallow marauders or other homins hostile to the Federation to take part in a Tryker market. I could as well understand a decision towards the contrary, at least allowing everybody access as a buyer irrespectively of alignment and reputation. Trykers are known to be tolerant, freedom loving, and much inclined to do trade and business with everybody, and to stay in contact with everybody to satisfy their inborn curiosity. I do not know about majorities in the FH assembly, but I am quite confident that Windermeer would take a more tolerant stance, and do not know about Crystabell. But it should be possible to find solutions in the future.

That the Marauders from the Ancient Lands are a hostile force, is established in the Lore of all three language communities I am easily able to check (I doubt that there is a different Spanish or Russian Lore). It is commonly accepted history that the clans of the Marauders in the Ancient Lands have been united under the hegemony of the clan of the Stranglers (Egorgeurs/Kehlenschlitzer) led by Melkiar the Black Varinx, a Fyros, and Muang/Marung Horongi, a Zorai. I am not aware when and how the command was transferred to a new generation of marauder leaders, Melkiar's daughter Akilia Ash Storm, her right hand Mezix, and the Scarlet (Escarlate/der Scharlachrote) from the Clan of the Ashes, and did not find out the fate of Melkiar and Muang/Marung so far. There are rumours, but nothing established.

As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives. So the RP behavior even of loyal citizens or pious worshippers may deviate from the official view (This is where I found the French "extremists" irrational, manichaeic, hypocritical, and simply incomprehensible, and, moreover, shitty RPers. I tried hard to understand the RP e.g. of Icus but miserably failed, especially as I refuse the notion that he is simply an idiot which he is definitely not).

Under such a notion I deem it not only possible, but even a possibly vivid element of RP when loyal nationals hide a marauder, allow her or him to slip into apartments and GH etc. But denying that marauders as a force are enemies of the nations is not ok in my opinion. Sure, marauders are their own lawmakers, as long as they are able to defend their "laws" by their strength, bound by no ethics except their loyalty to their own clan. So, a marauder may decide on her own to be a friendly marauder towards other homins, or not. Those who cannot stand to be healed by a marauder should simply run into the goo or strip naked and kiss a kincher. That is not RP, but a shame.

Nuff said, if not too much. We may delve into contradictions in our Lores and traditions, and further try to harmonize and identify points of interest. I think that the marauders' faction still has potential and can and should contribute to the life of Atys.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#68 Added by Suboxide 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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omg can I kiss you daomei?

(push bulleted it aswell need to reread it at work tommorow)

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#69 Added by Icus 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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3 The reward of baiting ex-Aris homins - quite a few of whom are livid about all this - and cannot understand - in terms of keeping the game alive - why this is happening. No new homin is going to sit through umpteen years of role play before they role play - but anything they do or suggest in role play will be destroyed by French Role players

When i arrived on Aniro, i didn't felt bullied, and could suggest/do things very soon (almost too soon because i didn't knew anything and i actually did some mistake, but in the end it solved good, and it's things like that which makes RP fun). People coming after me (in case you were wondering if i was the one bullying) didn't had that problem (or i didn't heard of it). So i guess you are kind of paranoiac about that, sorry :(

Sorry to hear the Taliari ordered anti-marauder guards. I always find it suspicious that they sort of "smell out" homins. I'm sort of fine with it during a war (in the Temple Wars, the military camps were secured that way), but it might be doubtful from a RP perspective with something like a fair. There it should be enough to watch it and throw out people who behave disrespectful or more than just a little suspicious.

I agree, but it's not limited to anti-marauder guard, all guard working on fame have the same problem. For marauder you could argue that most of them are probably wearing their guild badge, and the marauder guild are probably known by guards all over atys. But still, it isn't a really good explanation : you can't really know whi is someone who isn't wearing a badge but with a full HA ; yes, it's a suspect behaviour in a city, but not a reason to attack on sight ^^

(This is where I found the French "extremists" irrational, manichaeic, hypocritical, and simply incomprehensible, and, moreover, shitty RPers. I tried hard to understand the RP e.g. of Icus but miserably failed, especially as I refuse the notion that he is simply an idiot which he is definitely not).

Well, none of Icus relatives went to the dark side, so it's kinda hard to speak about it :) the only people who left went to the ranger or the tryker, and he kept good relationship with them. He even have some matis friend (well, not matis vassal, of course !) !

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#70 Added by Maximus 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Daomei

As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :

MarauderBoard

HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Maximus (9 years ago)

#71 Added by Daomei 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Your position, Maximus. I have friends who are marauders. I do like them though I do not like them to be marauders. I had friends in RL, btw. who have joined the FTP, and were hidden sometimes by Vichy people. They should have been deadly enemies, but life is more complex.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#72 Added by Elvanae 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Maximus (atys)

Daomei
As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be killed or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

I'd love to say I've been killing homins since decades but I was introduced to PvP quite relunctantly and since then I thoroughly enjoy killing homins in Void, OP battles and SNs.

That's besides the point.

Clearly you have no interest in reading about other people's RP (despite it being mentioned MANY times on threads such as these) because IF you had, you would have found Virg's RP posts about his guild becoming Marauder and what it means for THEM to be Marauder through his RP interpretation. He sought to bring a new interpretation to RP regarding Marauders and put in a heck of a lot of effort into it.

The whole point of RP in a game such as Ryzom is that it DEVELOPS through time. Virg attempted to do this through direct RP in respect to the Lore of Ryzom and those who RP.

No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Moderated some language.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (9 years ago)

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#73 Added by Talkirc 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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damn. can't we all get along?

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Remickla (atys)

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#74 Added by Maximus 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Daomei, I don't wish to continue the discussion if we are comparing point of views about the situation in Atys and what happened during WW2 or recent events.

Elvanae, just give us a link of what he did then.

And anyway, you should respect the fact that some characters created by players will not accept Marauders in cities and probably have a background that justifies that opinion. I also remind you that I was answering Daomei who said that FR players are bad RPers with bad opinions, while some choices are pretty logical and conform to the lore.

Some language edited.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (9 years ago)

#75 Added by Binarabi 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Elvanae (atys)

No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Maybe we can take heart that it is only a couple posting this obsessive attitude - I thought we had made it very clear that Aris Mara are/were different from Aniro - that our lores are different and that our role play is different - so no point in shouting on a board - no point in just repeating over and over again what the Lore says - do try to find a way of moving forward.

And thank you very much Elvanae and Daomei - what you have contributed here is a real effort in bridging this awful and depressing gap

Updated quote

Last edited by Tiximei (9 years ago)

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#76 Added by Virg 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Maximus (atys)

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Wow...

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#77 Added by Maximus 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Virg (atys)

Maximus (atys)
Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Wow...

Just to be clear, it's how my character perceives the marauders. I'm not implying it's the OOC truth nor am I implying it is how I think IRL.

#78 Added by Talkirc 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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i know right virg, kinda over the top, sure mara can be played as bad guys, and yes i've said that it's a harder way of life, but it should by no means be impossible or without rewards or perks. (i'm still waiting for the upper branches to come about, so mara can have more to do, and lands where they are treated as just another homin.)

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Remickla (atys)

Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#79 Added by Salazar 9 years ago Report | Quote [de]

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Maximus (atys)

Just to be clear, it's how my character perceives the marauders. I'm not implying it's the OOC truth nor am I implying it is how I think IRL.

As long as it is a personal opinion, it's perfectly fine. ;)

I, both as a player and a character take the position that history is written by the winners, never the loosers. Nowadays, in real life, we have so many possibilities to preserve the truth (as well as the lies), but look at mankinds past. Was Vlad Draculea as bad as they say? Almost all we have left about him is a few pages of 15th Century propaganda flyleafs. He obviously was gruesome. What we not have is the fact that most likely all the other rulers were just as bad, but had the better (paid) press.

Looking at Atys, I see the same mechanisms at work. The perception of Matis is that bad because most of what we have are the writings of Tryker and Zorai historians. Salazar, as a Matis historian, understands the traps in those; after all, it would be no point in being a historian if he wouldn't. As a politician he abstracts even more: he looks at the Marauders up there in the Matis desert and thinks about both the damage they did in Matis lands, if they did at all, as well as at the use they might have. Finally, as a priest he *knows* (as only religious people know ;) ) that Jena will have mercy on the fallen.

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
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#80 Added by Lacuna 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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When I went Mara there was no Mara faction left. I did not want to play Mara the way it was played on Aris or Aniro. I did not see any harm in this; I was not trying to change the Lore. I just wanted to have fun and play Mara differently from what I had seen since first discovering Ryzom. This is after all meant to be a sandbox game. I soon found out how wrong I was.

I am not an expert on Ryzom Lore, but as an anthropologist, I could talk about how lore is a narrative, and how like the real world Ryzom is a storied world, stories that we ourselves are living out. I could explain how narratives are dynamic, fluid and adaptive to the moment, and are always coming into being with their retelling. I could talk about how relevant alterity is to the Lore on Marauders. I could talk about how, in their own way, factions are as dynamic, fluid and adaptive as narratives. As Salazar mentions, I could talk about how, although history is a set of lies agreed upon, just because something never happened does not mean that it is not true. I could talk about how this could be used as means of bridging the gap between the different servers' rp and Lore. But I'm out, this is sandbox game where you are not allowed to play with the sand.

Last edited by Lacuna (9 years ago)

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