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#61 Report | Quote[en] 

Salazar FH already has anti mara guards and some other towns now (they check db if you did mara rite you are kill on sight), Taliari has asked them to be added to the place where the fair will be held and event team has said yes we will add them there so mara can't show at all.

Would be really nice if we could buy a stall and try to sell some stuff but think each and every mara would be happy already to be able to show up and buy some stuff there atleast but now we will be kill on sight by the guards.

Mara have trainers and matis merchants in camp and today we finally got access to hairdressers and tatooist. Still not a single mission or anything tough, no occupation, no ... so it's actually mostly a death camp with guards that don't work at all. (Kind of funny they can make anti-mara guards in 12h and not pro-mara guards to protect the mara camp)

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Adaptation from "I have a dream" by "Martin Luther King"
I have a dream that one day this world will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all homin are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the hills of Fairhaven the sons of former homins left behind and the sons of former homins that were lucky enough to be rescued will be able to sit down together at a campfire of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the Matis, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my 64 little guildies will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin or the religion they follow but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

#62 Report | Quote[en] 

Salazar (atys)
What kind of actual "reward" does RP have?

1 Bullying is one reward - as mentioned above - usual rewards of bullying include feelings of power

2 Addition of extra anti-mara guards all over - leading to yet another english guild unsubbing - this can also be seen as bullying - but more harmful is the fact that the anti-mara guards are not needed to keep an odd 20 homins under control - they are there for purely rp reasons and so are symbolic of the powers of the French Role Players

3 The reward of baiting ex-Aris homins - quite a few of whom are livid about all this - and cannot understand - in terms of keeping the game alive - why this is happening. No new homin is going to sit through umpteen years of role play before they role play - but anything they do or suggest in role play will be destroyed by French Role players

I realise Icus will say - good get out - and Maxxye will say we/I am blaming ALL French role players - but this is just their way of dividing the community even more (power trip) there are many role playing French who are lovely homins - they are not extreme and they can be talked with - BUT something is going wrong somewhere - I'll vouch for Jazzy and the Tryker role players - the guards at FH were quickly moved - but what about the Fyros and Zora Role players?
Salazar (atys)
Originally it was the question if the Marauders are allowed to have a stall at the Tryker fair, right? For from what I understood they are not hindered to appear there and buy stuff from other stalls.

Yes they are hindered - it was made clear at the meeting that extra guards MIGHT be brought in - one extreme role player speaking again, and part of what we are writing on here is saying Aris had a Tryker Fair for everyone - why not this Tryker Fair - to which the reply is "go have your all-Atyss fair somewhere else" - which is okay - BUT if I get involved in role playing in Trykers then I have to Role Play the French Way? I suppose I could have organised the Tryker Fair via the English speaking Trykers (only me at the last meeting - think other English speakers have thrown-in-the-towel and given up) but then I would have been told - This is against Lore ... so - what can we do?

Also events are organised through meetings - so it you want to organise and event you HAVE to go to a meeting ...
Salazar (atys)
The fair, I think, will not take place in the town but outside, so at least that shouldn't be a problem (unless the Taliari decided to have it heavily guarded, but I can't imagine why they should have).

I am thinking you have missed out on some of the posts - event organiser and french role players have made it very clear that Mara eat babies, etc and are not welcome anywhere ... so guards MIGHT be reinforced

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#63 Report | Quote[de] 

Well, am glad to hear that you got at least a few of the things which until more or less recently you hadn't got.

Re. guards: I guess it's easier to copy existing models than to create new ones. But I know nothing about computer stuff, really. I also never tried to enter your camp. The guards would not keep me out of it? I should visit it - no idea how it looks like there ...

Sorry to hear the Taliari ordered anti-marauder guards. I always find it suspicious that they sort of "smell out" homins. I'm sort of fine with it during a war (in the Temple Wars, the military camps were secured that way), but it might be doubtful from a RP perspective with something like a fair. There it should be enough to watch it and throw out people who behave disrespectful or more than just a little suspicious.

Last edited by Salazar (5 years ago)

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#64 Report | Quote[de] 

Binarabi (atys)
... event organiser and french role players have made it very clear that Mara eat babies, etc and are not welcome anywhere

That's what I, as a Matis, hear all the time from at least the Fyros. ;)

Regarding the bullying - it's always a thin line between bullying and RP. Some is actually bullying, some might be misunderstood as that. As a character, I take it very seriously if the Matis are attacked; as a player, I don't. I try (succeeding or not) to be careful in turn with other players, as I don't know how well they can abstract the one from the other, although on the political level I expect my fellow politicians to be able to take a some biting, just because that's part of a politician's job, I think.

I don't know, really, how good or bad it is in the other countries, of course; probably we Matis are lucky? While the whole translation thing is very tiring, I have good experiences with both the French and the English speaking players here. We all make efforts, and we try not to touch too much of our various server's past.

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#65 Report | Quote[en] 

a little thought about RP and gameplay: yes marauders arent the nice guys, we all know that, I agree that nations should guard against them and other enemies, its natural and understandable and i might even concede that it springs from prejudice rather than facts. As far as gameplay allows, it lets players to train everything to mastery, and a lot, if not most, players have trained their skills for hours to become powerful, and many of them have taken vows for a certain civilization or faction. so speaking about the logic of roleplay in an MMO is that your character should be able to face the dangers of the land. if we were to follow that simple logic than adding more guards is detrimental to RP both of marauders and players.

1- the new guards are too poweful to even be confronted, so the answer is fleeing
2- marauder cant even come close to attack a city and play the ROLE that the current roleplay gives them 3- if you trained your character and Love your nation/faction then you should be the guard

#66 Report | Quote[en] 

In all i think anti marauder guards shouldn't exist even under the premise of RP, regarding activities such as thr fairhaven fair, we should make an effort to make events that are server inclusive, and if you are to PUSH marauders into being hateful, and fearful, then include that RP as part of the event instead of putting a ban to it. if youre doing a national event, then talk to marauders and get them to RP in tagged pvp as part of the event. but keep the current model and youll get is angry people (and with lots of reasons for it)

#67 Report | Quote[en] 

Well, I cannot say that I like the idea of anti marauder guards. Before the merge, the attack threshold of normal city guards was -40 fame of their nation (or -40.01, don't ask me) to attack anybody on sight no matter whether marauder or not. Only since the change, the threshold has shrunk to -50 or so equal to tribe guards. That was declared a bug though not fixed since.

It gave marauders a window to enter cities, and at least for me, it was no problem. Instead of setting up anti marauder guards with supernatural abilities to sense the faction (instead of knowing about the reputation which may be established without tapping into marauder rites) simply resetting the attack threshold to -40 would have sufficed.

Moreover, I fail to see the need for such guards right now. In former times, there have been attacks against assemblies (or at least tagged players inside assemblies) but those attacks have largely subsided.

Concerning the FH fair, I can understand a decision of the Taliari to disallow marauders or other homins hostile to the Federation to take part in a Tryker market. I could as well understand a decision towards the contrary, at least allowing everybody access as a buyer irrespectively of alignment and reputation. Trykers are known to be tolerant, freedom loving, and much inclined to do trade and business with everybody, and to stay in contact with everybody to satisfy their inborn curiosity. I do not know about majorities in the FH assembly, but I am quite confident that Windermeer would take a more tolerant stance, and do not know about Crystabell. But it should be possible to find solutions in the future.

That the Marauders from the Ancient Lands are a hostile force, is established in the Lore of all three language communities I am easily able to check (I doubt that there is a different Spanish or Russian Lore). It is commonly accepted history that the clans of the Marauders in the Ancient Lands have been united under the hegemony of the clan of the Stranglers (Egorgeurs/Kehlenschlitzer) led by Melkiar the Black Varinx, a Fyros, and Muang/Marung Horongi, a Zorai. I am not aware when and how the command was transferred to a new generation of marauder leaders, Melkiar's daughter Akilia Ash Storm, her right hand Mezix, and the Scarlet (Escarlate/der Scharlachrote) from the Clan of the Ashes, and did not find out the fate of Melkiar and Muang/Marung so far. There are rumours, but nothing established.

As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives. So the RP behavior even of loyal citizens or pious worshippers may deviate from the official view (This is where I found the French "extremists" irrational, manichaeic, hypocritical, and simply incomprehensible, and, moreover, shitty RPers. I tried hard to understand the RP e.g. of Icus but miserably failed, especially as I refuse the notion that he is simply an idiot which he is definitely not).

Under such a notion I deem it not only possible, but even a possibly vivid element of RP when loyal nationals hide a marauder, allow her or him to slip into apartments and GH etc. But denying that marauders as a force are enemies of the nations is not ok in my opinion. Sure, marauders are their own lawmakers, as long as they are able to defend their "laws" by their strength, bound by no ethics except their loyalty to their own clan. So, a marauder may decide on her own to be a friendly marauder towards other homins, or not. Those who cannot stand to be healed by a marauder should simply run into the goo or strip naked and kiss a kincher. That is not RP, but a shame.

Nuff said, if not too much. We may delve into contradictions in our Lores and traditions, and further try to harmonize and identify points of interest. I think that the marauders' faction still has potential and can and should contribute to the life of Atys.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#68 Report | Quote[en] 

omg can I kiss you daomei?

(push bulleted it aswell need to reread it at work tommorow)

---

Adaptation from "I have a dream" by "Martin Luther King"
I have a dream that one day this world will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all homin are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the hills of Fairhaven the sons of former homins left behind and the sons of former homins that were lucky enough to be rescued will be able to sit down together at a campfire of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the Matis, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my 64 little guildies will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin or the religion they follow but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

#69 Report | Quote[en] 

3 The reward of baiting ex-Aris homins - quite a few of whom are livid about all this - and cannot understand - in terms of keeping the game alive - why this is happening. No new homin is going to sit through umpteen years of role play before they role play - but anything they do or suggest in role play will be destroyed by French Role players
When i arrived on Aniro, i didn't felt bullied, and could suggest/do things very soon (almost too soon because i didn't knew anything and i actually did some mistake, but in the end it solved good, and it's things like that which makes RP fun). People coming after me (in case you were wondering if i was the one bullying) didn't had that problem (or i didn't heard of it). So i guess you are kind of paranoiac about that, sorry :(
Sorry to hear the Taliari ordered anti-marauder guards. I always find it suspicious that they sort of "smell out" homins. I'm sort of fine with it during a war (in the Temple Wars, the military camps were secured that way), but it might be doubtful from a RP perspective with something like a fair. There it should be enough to watch it and throw out people who behave disrespectful or more than just a little suspicious.

I agree, but it's not limited to anti-marauder guard, all guard working on fame have the same problem. For marauder you could argue that most of them are probably wearing their guild badge, and the marauder guild are probably known by guards all over atys. But still, it isn't a really good explanation : you can't really know whi is someone who isn't wearing a badge but with a full HA ; yes, it's a suspect behaviour in a city, but not a reason to attack on sight ^^
(This is where I found the French "extremists" irrational, manichaeic, hypocritical, and simply incomprehensible, and, moreover, shitty RPers. I tried hard to understand the RP e.g. of Icus but miserably failed, especially as I refuse the notion that he is simply an idiot which he is definitely not).
Well, none of Icus relatives went to the dark side, so it's kinda hard to speak about it :) the only people who left went to the ranger or the tryker, and he kept good relationship with them. He even have some matis friend (well, not matis vassal, of course !) !

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#70 Report | Quote[en] 

Daomei
As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be sentenced to death or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Maximus (5 years ago)

#71 Report | Quote[en] 

Your position, Maximus. I have friends who are marauders. I do like them though I do not like them to be marauders. I had friends in RL, btw. who have joined the FTP, and were hidden sometimes by Vichy people. They should have been deadly enemies, but life is more complex.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#72 Report | Quote[en] 

Maximus (atys)
Daomei
As to the marauders of the New Territories, in my opinion we should treat them like partisans of the opposite side of a frozen conflict, or a long lasting guerilla warfare. It is natural that the governments are considering and treating them as deadly enemies, and nothing short of can be considered or expected, at least normally. On the other hand, a friend, brother, sister, father or mom joining the "dark side" does not automatically become a villain in the eyes of friends or relatives.

Come on, when one joins the Maraudeurs, he perfectly knows what he gets into. These are KILLERS that have been KILLING homins for DECADES. What part of this can't you get ?

It's like a big gigantic sign saying :
MarauderBoard
HELLO, WE ARE KILLERS, WE HAVE BEEN KILLING YOUR FATHERS, MOTHERS, BROTHERS, SISTERS, SONS, DAUGHTERS, LOVERS AND FRIENDS FOR DECADES. WE HAVE NO RULES EXCEPT BRUTEFORCE AND STRENGTH.

What part of that won't you understand ?
My character is pretty moderate and yet, he thinks everyone who associates with Marauders should just be killed or at least banned for life. It is no frozen conflict... It's pretty much ongoing and as always been ongoing since the new beginnings...

I'd love to say I've been killing homins since decades but I was introduced to PvP quite relunctantly and since then I thoroughly enjoy killing homins in Void, OP battles and SNs. 

That's besides the point.

Clearly you have no interest in reading about other people's RP (despite it being mentioned MANY times on threads such as these) because IF you had, you would have found Virg's RP posts about his guild becoming Marauder and what it means for THEM to be Marauder through his RP interpretation. He sought to bring a new interpretation to RP regarding Marauders and put in a heck of a lot of effort into it.

The whole point of RP in a game such as Ryzom is that it DEVELOPS through time. Virg attempted to do this through direct RP in respect to the Lore of Ryzom and those who RP.

No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Moderated some language.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (5 years ago)

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#73 Report | Quote[en] 

damn. can't we all get along?

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Remickla (atys)
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#74 Report | Quote[en] 

Daomei, I don't wish to continue the discussion if we are comparing point of views about the situation in Atys and what happened during WW2 or recent events.

Elvanae, just give us a link of what he did then.

And anyway, you should respect the fact that some characters created by players will not accept Marauders in cities and probably have a background that justifies that opinion. I also remind you that I was answering Daomei who said that FR players are bad RPers with bad opinions, while some choices are pretty logical and conform to the lore.

Some language edited. 

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tiximei (5 years ago)

#75 Report | Quote[en] 

Elvanae (atys)
No one on this game has to define themselves and their RP based on what you want, so no, I have no idea how you have found the audacity to ask "What part of that won't you understand?" because I'll say that I perfectly understand Virg's RP position with regards to him being Marauder and so do many other people which is why we are posting endlessly on this thread... clearly to deaf ears!

Maybe we can take heart that it is only a couple posting this obsessive attitude - I thought we had made it very clear that Aris Mara are/were different from Aniro - that our lores are different and that our role play is different - so no point in shouting on a board - no point in just repeating over and over again what the Lore says - do try to find a way of moving forward.

And thank you very much Elvanae and Daomei - what you have contributed here is a real effort in bridging this awful and depressing gap

Updated quote 

Last edited by Tiximei (5 years ago)

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)
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