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Ok, so... it's been proven that skill in this game only goes so far when you're up against 4 times as many enemies than you have allies. For example, the Marauders recently attacked a q200 Outpost, and won the attack phase (which we were outnumbered), but then lost the defense phase because somehow the kami got 100 toons to show up. There was no way we could win the defense phase, and these numbers of the kami have made people leave the game, because there's no sense in attacking and wasting time to build dappers and so on to attack and then lose because there's just no way to deal enough damage to beat the 100 heals. It also doesn't help that the kami aren't willing to trade these mats, they'd rather let them sit in their guild halls and rot.

As a Marauder, you're supposed to "seek conquest through Outpost attacks", but this has proven to be near impossible due to fights consisting of 4:1 odds. So what if, there was another type of attack?

What if, there was an outpost attack that could be done, by Marauders or even the Karavan(the two small factions), that allowed for the attackers to STEAL outpost materials, rather than try to take the outpost for ownership? Like a thief in the night, Marauders (or the Karavan) could stage an attack that would be one phase only, the attack phase. If won, for example, they would "steal" a certain number of the op mats from the outpost, and that outpost would stop producing these materials until the time it takes to produce that certain number of mats that were stolen was fulfilled. So if they "stole" 20 mats, and it took 2 weeks to produce the 20 mats, the outpost would not produce them for that amount of time, then afterwards proceed to produce normally.

This is an idea to keep more people from leaving the game, every week more and more leave because let's be honest, digging all day and PvE all day can get increasingly boring over time. I believe if we can add just a little content to keep the smaller factions relevant, it would not only keep people from leaving, but also encourage others to join these smaller factions rather than just joining the kami for their riches.

Also, I'd like to add that my guild was once kami (Asylum) for 2 years and we held many OPs then, but changed factions to help balance out the game. There was no Marauder faction left when we switched over due to missing content and the fact that they couldn't beat us because of numbers.

Thank you for your time :)

Another option could be the Guild vs Guild. With some "limits" ( so people don't just join guild for defense or attack).

Nobody will do a guild vs guild maxx, u know that :)

Maybe join forces with a NEW small faction they announced just this weekend 'the trytonists' :)
Yes Trytonist is an intresting take. But atm they have a 4+ year old faction that has had no development at all since when it was started (still missing be basic stuff). Then they added half baked ranger thing with some tps (atleast rangers still can do missions and occ, hairdressers,...). Now they are adding Trytonists => WTF looks like you are just trowing stuff at the wall now instead of doing one thing good to the end.

But yes I wouldn't be against skirmishes it would still be hard to win at just those att phases but could be a nice added pvp feature. In end I wouldn't go for alot of mats just a couple and maybe no guards , smaller time like just 12h in advance and such so it's like a real 'ninja' att (or as close as it is but still comfortable for everyone)

so, we should team up with the 5 trytonists? :p

The proposed idea heavily favors guilds with few if any OPs. Why bother owning one, paying for its defense times and again, when an OP-less guild can just come steal, while you can't reciprocate? Even now, an OP-less guild can spam declare (*cough* The Outsiders *cough*), and no one can reciprocate.

If we go down this road, I'd rather see guild wars directly. Make a menu of guilds and guild halls on which one can declare, then they must meet on a neutral terrain at a certain time and whoever wins gets to loot some of the losers' guild contents. Would even put an interesting spin on alt guild halls.

At any rate, Winch Gate seems to give 0 fucks about balancing, so this is all idle talk. Several topics about balancing OPs only, and literally no answer; not to mention every other suggestion..

i have said this before and i'll say it again "make a merchant that sells this "exclusive" mat's"

for everyone that doesn't like that idea, i have but this to say: "we need to put the SAND back in this SANDBOX" ryzom is a sandbox game, having "easy" ways is what a sandbox game should have, i've not put a price on what mat's could sell for, but let's keep in mind the crappy economy, and consider that while we work. (it's rare for a war because it's not a quick easy thing to make dappers like it was pre-merger)

For Guild Wars, would be awesome, but it would force the devs to write an entirely new script (or whatever it is they use here) to implement that. Replicating an already existing concept and script, just deleting the second half of it, makes it easier on them in my opinion.
MJ, owners of the outpost will be able to defend the attacks, and if u cared about balancing the game you'd leave the kami.

The onus is on the game developer to provide a framework in which factions have a fair chance. I don't *have* to do squat expect interpret the role I have chosen.

Owners having to field multiple attacks in a series does not sound fun at all, especially since you have no recourse (like phase II in an OP). We have already seen OP declares at inconvenient hours for European players, exploiting the meta-game (the fact that kami lacks numbers at that time).

Your idea is interesting, but would have bad side-effects if implemented without additional safety checks. Maybe work on those details instead of making up duties for others.

If inconvenient means the kami have 40 players, rather than 100, then that's just silly. No matter what time it is,the smaller factions are still outnumbered.
I'm not "making up duties" just trying to keep the game fun for people who don't want to dig all day, and would like a bit of excitement.

In the last few months: Gu-Qin (q200 tekorn) was defended by 8-9 kamis against 2 Outsiders. Reached round level 4 and barely missed going to Phase 2, fifth round ended with only a few guards standing. Twintops was defended by 3 kami players (Lamda, Sreothus and one more) against 20+ karas. Reached round level 21. Kami isn't as strong as it was 6 months ago.

You *can* find a time when the defenders' schedules clash with RL and attack then. The attacker side essentially has to win a PvE fight that has PvP awkwardly shoehorned in. Good attackers can avoid the pvp altogether by spamming heal enchants on each other, and elemental bomb enchants on the guards.

You got 7 rounds in Thesos despite being outnumbered 3:1, surely you don't need to be told how badly overpowered enchant healing is, when coupled with good pvp jewels. And I've seen how much damage Outsiders did on q200 guards by bombing them. Essentially, a skirmish like that is almost guaranteed to cause grief and loss for the defenders, with very little fun to be had.

But - considering there is a rather similar idea posted by Afriel in February, that even adds a reward for the attacking guild .. there must be some merit in it to keep cropping up. Probably a matter of tweaking the right parameters of such fights.

Some of the normal OP mechanics could be tweaked for these skirmishes - guards toughened up to avoid melting them with a bomb enchant, limits placed on how many mats can be stolen after an attack, limits on participating members even, etc. Again, the idea is alright but there must be an attempt to show there can be balanced fights; no point swinging from one lopsided situation to another.

will drop the storage wars idea from here, so I won't derail the topic

The way Ryzom works, killed a lot of marauder guilds and it will probably happen again.. or maybe you guys have a stronger will and patience, you did a great job converting people to marauder faction, just try a little harder maybe the numbers will increase enough to make a difference.

I would really love to see marauders taking over some Q200/250 - but the way it works at the moment.. makes it really hard.. and it could be worse, at least you don't have "karamis" fighting against you :-)

GvsG was suggested a long time ago... or to limit the people joining OP wars, but nothing changed.

Maybe Mjollren is right, you just need to find the right time and it could happen.

I don't agree nor disagree with your idea, I'm just pointing out that it might never take off the ground.

Don't lose hope tho.

Exodus

I think the players are in charge of devopments now Mj - take a look at Ryzomforge (though Iam sure you have). We have enough subscriptions for server and connection - but not enough to pay a full time developer.

People who are involved with developments seem to be doing their best - but will have full time jobs as well - you probably know all this already - just anger has to go into something more real, so to speak

We, players, are the ones who shape the game (Sandbox, like Talkirc says) so yes, a forum for guilds who are willing to guild v guild is one choice we could make - we could also hand over 10 mats to any guild/ faction/ alliance who won the 1st round

Same thing could be said about Syndicate going Karavan - we just have to work things out as they are rather than leap from alliance to alliance

maybe i m wrong , but remembering some previous op battles , doesnt seem to me kami outnumber kara that much

now the smaller faction : maraudeur , i think that has nothing to do with it
we ve seen many times players already bored of the game , just going for boosted stuff and pvp gear and willing to do pvp only all the time ... and i guess most players dont seem to agree to be slaughtered anytime while training digging and such ... so they bored pretty quick and just leave the game

i m not sure we are to blame for that

As you mentioned the recent attack on Q200 op,
There was 0 organization for marauders , they could have done much more better than they did.
( on the second phase ,Not showing on the spot at a good time ,Running as lost yubos ...)

You may not be enough to win but you could bring a good show and have some real fun.
( And if you mange to think about other plans than trying to change the whole ops system you'd win ! )