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No, Veg, I have not lost the point.

I was pointing out that in the proposal above, a 300m radius is a 600m diameter circle. A homin in that circle, digging, would prevent respawn of the boss. Since a 600m circle is about 1/4 the size of Abyss and 1/6 the size of Underspring, the probability of a digger is high. Hence respawn probability is low.

Consider also that a guild willing to gamble could deliberately station a toon near the spawn site to block others from getting the mats. Remove the toon at a known time and gamble on the spawn. Camping by another name.

Campers *are* "players wanting to get mats for plans." The argument isn't about desire, it's about tactics.

Heck, I'd love to have some of those mats, but I don't belong to a big guild, and the guild I belong to doesn't do PvP (and I'm in it for that reason). We rarely get sup harvested mats, much less boss.

My chance at super-mats in quantity is low. I admit that I do get invited on Boss Hunts and I get my fair share when they find Bosses; and I thank those who invite me. My chance at super mats is low, not zero. Strangely, when I am on those hunts, we often find bosses. I rarely take part in the ones in Prime Roots due to not having any tps there and not wanting to slow down the party, but I have watched my friends take down Yelkoo, Kipekoo and the like (and of course I don't get a piece of what I don't work for - duh).

This thread is about greed. Greed for certain types of materials. Both sides of the argument are displaying it. My personal opinion is that the effectiveness of campers is over-rated (see above paragraph). Your mileage may vary. However, putting up aggro circles, putting up exclusion zones, and things like that will only have negative effects for others. It won't stop camping, because greed is more powerful than game mechanics.

The only thing that will stop camping is removal of anything worth camping for, and I don't want to see that.

credo -- MacOd Bittty.

Removal of the campers will stop camping.

sour troll is sour.

What about the suggestion that we have aggro within range of campers/bosses?

And also Freddy's point? Which is of much more concern

Alric I think your solution would work however it is not the only solution:
1) Randomizing boss spawn times would stop time camping
2) Increasing boss spawn locations would prevent camping with alts

These two ideas, a poll and several related ideas are listen in this thread.

Personally, I think camping is just another exploitation of the game, plain and simple.

Any exploitation or "hacking" of the game should be closed because it does not represent an organic environment but just adds more of the artificial to it.

But "camping" in the abstract is not a "hack", it's just a different investment of time. (Using multiple low-level alts to keep watch is not the only way to "camp", and even there it's within the game mechanic to use alts.)

Even if we were to get rid of alts (a move I would not support), camping could still happen if a guild cared enough, and as I have said before, no matter how you change the game, players who want something enough will figure out a way to get it.

-- B

Ok I can see a master on his main toon camping or even better a team of high lvl professionals camping a boss => like in real world hunters also know where the deer come drink at wich watering hole every so often and they will camp out that watering hole to get the deer.
But using a lvl one to camp is plain wrong and can't find any anoligies with that in real world you don't send a baby to spot lions in the wild

No argument from this corner, Suboxide.

I have no argument either that such kind of camping with low level f2p alts is highly abusive. And in general, camping, even if done with subbed acc and master level character, is somewhat filthy, a brute force attack on the random appearance of bosses. There are good reasons to despise and few if any reasons to justify it.

As denoted before, lifting the ban on camping was obviously a pragmatic decision by the CSR. The reasons for are quite comprehensible:

- the burden of proof is much against the accuser. There are lots of reasons to be present at a spot where once in 4 days ca. a boss may appear (if not on one of its other 1 or 2 locations) apart from camping. I (and not only me) am regularly lvling in a place directly adjacent to one and not so far from one or two other boss spots, sometimes I am even idling there (because I am working, checking email, writing stuff or else). Same goes for at least 3 or 4 spots where I (like others) use to dig not seldom.
- Lower level characters venturing into dangerous regions depend on longer stays on open safe places. Typically, bosses use to spawn in exactly such locations. Therefore, venturing low level players may easily be confused with camping abusers.
- Real campers know all of the above and may have their excuses at hand once they are confronted and/or tickteted.
- Some players may use such accusations for acting out personal feuds and resentments and/or take them as an opportunity for bickering and flaming.

For CSR that means the need of playing detective and kindergarten nanny, the most disgusting parts of administrative work (I have long experience as server and site admin and can say that no technical problem is as disgusting and burdening as such social quarrels are).

As repeatedly said, a common sense attitude is the best against such malpractice. Good patrollers can outperform or at least match any result from camping, and can take pride in playing honestly by the rules.

Btw. camping is fairly ineffective and wasteful unless supported by additional abuse such as botting. And botting is highly illegal outspokenly banned by the rules, and there are server side possibilities to track it.

I must agree with Daomei here, over the past few weeks i have been camping at Jugukoo-Psykokoo spot in N LoC and i must admit so far it has been a waste of time, perhaps i'm not putting enough time into it or perhaps Nuno has been more dilligent *oops*, whatever the case,  there is a much higher chance (imo, from my completely non-scientific observation) that a skilled scout, provided that he knows the time (approximate) will find the boss, assuming players would be busy minding then mains rather than staring at alts in camping spots...


Of course that leads to think about timing solutions... seems we're doomed :) 

Just my opinion, yomv, etc.

If sending a baby to spot lions in wild would increase the rate at which we could them, I'd be all for it, but I don't see how it would help.

And why all the hate towards campers? Campers are homins too!!

Camper

Roflmao, quit crying about campers, most of the nubs are afk camping 85% of the time anyways, so just kill that friendly yelk that you accidentally hit, make sure to fear and root it on top of there ass first of course !!!
Mektubs --- can't remember the spelling tbh, have a AoE frontal if you can't find a yelk, these are useful in PR where yelks can't be found and you can kite them the furthest of any mob in razor cause they are super fast.
My personal fav would have to be a vorax, might die yourself but hey you got rid of that camper right?!?!?!?

Ahh, camping near a campfire. With some nice barbeque'd Varinx meat.

i still say just put all mat's on sale at raw matireal merchants, then the only reason to kill anything is for the fun of it, provided they could be limited quanties and insane prices, say a Q250 sup mat is 250k dappers per mat, and the supply is say 10000 mats per type per month. kills many things at one time, creates a "fast" way for campers to get what they want, and let the hunters of the game have fun hunting, gives us something to waste dappers on (for those of us that can afford to) and give everyone something new to complain about, (much like my post will surely do anyway, lolx)