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IDEAS FOR RYZOM


Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun
13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Nightviper, Placio, Wirroy, Zendae
9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau
1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper
3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia
1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#76 [en] 

Heernis
I thought about it again and slept on it one night.

Through the game mechanics we want to encourage you to use the fractional PVP more often.

If that's the goal, then plundering enemies isn't the way to go, as is artificially separating the factions, e.g. by not being able to kill the faction's own people.

For orientation, for example, the approach of avoiding friendly fire would be a win. That would make the cosmetic old markings for faction and citizenship. Then at least you know who you're dealing with.

Then of course it is important, as I think, that there must also be consequences for PVP. There is no death penalty for killed homins. That is fine. But the loss of fame in small steps or the increase of fame would be a wonderful menchanic and is legitimate to give homins an orientation to a faction, but not to force them strictly into a caste system. Since you have chosen a faction *voluntarily*, you can count on the consequences, just as in the countries of Umbra you accept the risk of being killed by higher levels. This should be extended to all PVP areas except duels and training in the Arena.

But no game mechanic in the world can encourage a player to play PVP. The main goal should be to increase enthusiasm for PVP. I remember the PVP competition organized by Agan. It was the first time I really saw PVP. It impressed me a bit and encouraged me to level up and understand the PVP way of playing better. Other PVP events would also be suitable. So you can see that PVP is not a pointless battle, it has a background. Role-playing can also be very important. A simple bump on top of each other is just as boring as scratching your back.

Someone told me that the fight between Kami and Karavan made the game great. So it was PVP that captivated people (but not only). The main part is said to have been PVP. Just to think.

No game mechanic will ever encourage me to PVP. Rather the opposite, game mechanics that emphasize PVP too strongly would likely drive me away from the game permanently.

Already the enjoyment of my favorite part of the game (digging in the Prime Roots) is ruined by the automatic and unavoidable PVP flag just for being there.

If PVP is made to affect the fame levels that I've spent hundreds of hours achieving, then I would lose all interest in ever risking it, to be honest.
Gidget
I think that factional PvP is far from the only reason people play. Personally, I stay for the detailed mechanics, especially dig/craft. However, since being a good crafter requires digging and hunting in PvP zones as well as some OP mats, any good crafter will either be a good trader or occasionally fight other homins for the good mats... and not all of us are deal-makers.

What drew me to the game back in 2004, and has kept me coming back ever since, was the beautiful and diverse game world with a variety of dynamic ecosystems (still unmatched by any other game, 15 years later), the incredible customizability of actions (still unmatched by any other game, 15 years later), the depth and complexity of the crafting system (still unmatched by any other game, 15 years later), an actually enjoyable harvesting system! (still unmatched by any other game, 15 years later), and (a couple years later) the Ryzom Ring and its crazy amount of detail (still unmatched in any other MMO, 13 years later).

No part of the PVP system in this game has EVER interested me in the slightest, and it never will.

And every time I come back to the game after an absence, I see discussions like this one in the forums, or in universe chat, and it ALWAYS makes me less interested in coming back.

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#77 [en] 

@Revvy - There are some who currently do little/no PvP for whatever reason. Some of them see flaws that need correcting before they take up arms, some merely have no strong motivation because they aren't not into factions as much as you are. Think about what keeps people who are normally into PvP from PvP-ing on Atys and you may find that more players will tag up.

@Moniq - It has been brought up elsewhere that "Ranger" has different meanings in different languages and cultures. To me, Rangers are about transcending the normal boundaries of nation and religion, and to balance the scales. We do not fight for higher powers or governments. Beyond that, it's more of a personal decision.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#78 [en] 

Yuritau

No game mechanic will ever encourage me to PVP. Rather the opposite, game mechanics that emphasize PVP too strongly would likely drive me away from the game permanently.

Already the enjoyment of my favorite part of the game (digging in the Prime Roots) is ruined by the automatic and unavoidable PVP flag just for being there.

If PVP is made to affect the fame levels that I've spent hundreds of hours achieving, then I would lose all interest in ever risking it, to be honest.

No part of the PVP system in this game has EVER interested me in the slightest, and it never will.

And every time I come back to the game after an absence, I see discussions like this one in the forums, or in universe chat, and it ALWAYS makes me less interested in coming back.

Yuritau, it's perfectly okay not to like PVP. I also don't want you to be pressed into it either. I only got to know the roots as a PVP area or with Kitin patrols and accept it. There were other times back then. But in a game like Ryzom, standstill is a death warrant. Well then. Do you have any constructive suggestions on how PVP can be further developed without affecting other people's gameplay? Whining is one thing, but thinking about how to satisfy both parties so that a win-win situation can be created is another. Okay now it's your turn ;-)

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#79 [en] 

Why must you assume I'm whining, simply because I express a contrary opinion? Do you think Revvy is whining for calling anti-PVP opinions 'poisonous'?

I'm well aware that PVP is part of the game and wont go away (much as I would like that), and I don't have a problem with people enjoying PVP if that's what they enjoy. My problem is people constantly looking for new ways to expand PVP without regard for the fact that some people just don't want it at all.

You want a suggestion? Do whatever you want with PVP, but find a way to do it without making the game worse for those of us not interested in participating. I've already accepted, many years ago, that my experience of the game will be limited to an extent by my unwillingness to PVP. I don't need it limited even further.

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#80 [en] 

Yuritau
Why must you assume I'm whining, simply because I express a contrary opinion? Do you think Revvy is whining for calling anti-PVP opinions 'poisonous'?

I'm well aware that PVP is part of the game and wont go away (much as I would like that), and I don't have a problem with people enjoying PVP if that's what they enjoy. My problem is people constantly looking for new ways to expand PVP without regard for the fact that some people just don't want it at all.

You want a suggestion? Do whatever you want with PVP, but find a way to do it without making the game worse for those of us not interested in participating. I've already accepted, many years ago, that my experience of the game will be limited to an extent by my unwillingness to PVP. I don't need it limited even further.

Never mind. When I read your contribution it is of course a contrary opinion. But a negative opinion without constructive contribution for the improvement to the topic is simply complaining. One should recognize that.

But what I hear now is that you don't think it is appropriate to think along. You don't even want to deal with it. Quote: "You want a suggestion? Do whatever you want with PVP, but find a way to do it without making the game worse for those of us not interested in participating." If you want it to be understood this way, please stop writing, or bring in new ideas on how to PRACTICALLY improve something without disturbing the non-PVP.

Not quite Atys is a PVP area and that is also GOOD! Some areas are simply PVP or have become PVP. One is forced in the countries of Umbra, if one wants to dig the materials there for example, to accept the risk of being killed too.

Let me give you a practical example of how this might look with fame, so that you understand that it is not an expansion of PVP, but rather an incentive for orientation.

Let's say Yuritau is digging in the roots. A Mara comes and tries to kill him. In that case, no matter who wins, the fame of the Mara or the fame of Yuritau increases. If one kami defeats another kami, the fame of the victor decreases. The defeated kami neither receives a death penalty nor his fame is changed. Another example: If a Ranger and a Mara in the team defeat a Kami in the Roots, the Mara's fame will increase, but the Ranger's fame will decrease. If you don't fight, you won't have any problems with your glory, only that you will be resurrected like now.

Basically it's all about the consequences of the doer and not the victim. I hope I have made it clear once again how it is meant.

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#81 [en] 

Ok, we are WAAAAAAyyyy off topic talking about the fame micro transactions.

The original idea is still to impose game mechanics that prevent players with opposing fames from cooporating while PvP tagged... Which would probably reduce PvP even more...

#82 [en] 

Placio
Ok, we are WAAAAAAyyyy off topic talking about the fame micro transactions.

The original idea is still to impose game mechanics that prevent players with opposing fames from cooporating while PvP tagged... Which would probably reduce PvP even more...

It can reduce PVP, but it doesn't have to, placio.

The idea is to promote more factional PVP. This can be done in 2 ways, as far as I know: Preventing killing homins of your own faction (very restrictive), or creating incentives through fame to make PVP possible between your faction, but leaving the decision to the homin.

What is better now?

Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

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#83 [en] 

Heernis
My idea on the matter is that you switch back to faction based PVP when you're labeled. So that means:

1) Kamis attack Karavan and Marauders, but can't be attacked by Rangers, except in a Karavan or Marauder's team.
2) Karavans attack Kamis and Marauders, but cannot attack Rangers, except on a team of Kamis or Marauders.
3) Rangers attack Marauders only, but cannot be attacked by Karavan or Kamis, except in team with Marauders.
4) Marauders attack Kamis, Karavan and Rangers, as well as all 3 can attack Marauders. (Addition: Marauders can attack each other)

Since it depends on fame, all of them under fame 25 or above -25 cannot be involved in any fight.

Your goal may be to promote PvP, but your proposal was to restrict whom is able to attack/heal who.

#84 [en] 

Placio
Heernis
My idea on the matter is that you switch back to faction based PVP when you're labeled. So that means:

1) Kamis attack Karavan and Marauders, but can't be attacked by Rangers, except in a Karavan or Marauder's team.
2) Karavans attack Kamis and Marauders, but cannot attack Rangers, except on a team of Kamis or Marauders.
3) Rangers attack Marauders only, but cannot be attacked by Karavan or Kamis, except in team with Marauders.
4) Marauders attack Kamis, Karavan and Rangers, as well as all 3 can attack Marauders. (Addition: Marauders can attack each other)

Since it depends on fame, all of them under fame 25 or above -25 cannot be involved in any fight.

Your goal may be to promote PvP, but your proposal was to restrict whom is able to attack/heal who.

Please be more practically. What bad can happen? We have allready this fame system on tribes or? What would happen, if it would be also Chars?

Yes this was the idea in the quote, but if you read everything i wrote, it wouldnt the idea from the beginning. Why dont brainstorming about it? If it doesnt suit, why dont try another idea?

Ok please tell me, if you have another idea. Just saying "NO" doesnt help really.

Last edited by Heernis (1 year ago)

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#85 [en] 

I did provide the reason why I don't think its necessary, and I suggested an alternative that PvP point calculation could be changed to give less or no points if mortal enemies ally.

Its just that this thread has continued so long and produced some subtopics that it might as well be in the general discussions forum and not the ideas :D

Last edited by Placio (1 year ago)

#86 [en] 

Placio
I did provide the reason why I don't think its necessary, and I suggested an alternative that PvP point calculation could be changed to give less or no points if mortal enemies ally.

Its just that this thread has continued so long and produced some subtopics that it might as well be in the general discussions forum and not the ideas :D

Thanks for remembering. Added your quote to the first post ;-)

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#87 [en] 

i would prefer the pvp system to be as wide open as possible. That is, if you are tagged, you can attack anyone not in your team or league, and get pvp points if you win. Players can add in any factional RP elements themselves, it doesn't need to be enforced by game mechanics.

#88 [de] 

Btw, someone can explain the following:

Let's take 2 toons both in the same guild and both tag.
Toon A is not team nor league.
Toon B is in a team and league.

Why they can't heal each other ? Because the actual system is perfect, is that the answer ?

#89 [en] 

Heernis
Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

I am afraid that this will also bring the following:
- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

If you want to get fame involved, I would prefer just loosing a small amount of fame for attacking "wrong" target. No gain from PvP at all.

Last edited by Moniq (1 year ago)

#90 [en] 

Little note, in the current Ryzom, PvP points has absolutely no.. point :P
Most of the time to buy crystal, but that all.
(Which you can do with nations points if you aren't marauder)

Items aren't interesting / good enough to push people to fight for it (aka for points).

Also brainstorming on the main idea, to derivate to another (good to better) idea is very welcome and civilized for once.
Do not denigrate it Placio please.

Moniq
I am afraid that this will also bring the following:

- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

- With any system it will be the case, because it is how pvp game work, its a risk, and its human based.
- Btw the current idea do not bring this, de facto it exist already since Ryzom introduced PvP.

So don't be too afraid i think :)

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