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IDEAS FOR RYZOM


Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun
13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Nightviper, Placio, Wirroy, Zendae
9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau
1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper
3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia
1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#1 Multilingual 

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Look at the summary

At the moment, the faction PVP label is actually more of an "all against all" PVP. It makes no sense to call this fractional PVP. I don't know the background to why this is the way it is, but it seems to me that this has not been done consistently because the name "faction PVP" is still there.

When I read the Wiki, I see this explanation:

"Fractional PvP
If a player with a Higher Power or a Homin race is known to be either above +25 or below -25, he gains access to faction PVP by using a special flag. Players flagged in this way can be attacked by all other flagged players of an opposing faction. That is, they can be attacked by anyone who has -25 glory with a faction that has +25 glory with them, or by anyone who has +25 glory with a faction that has -25 glory with them."
https://en.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player#Factional_PvP

I assumed this would behave as described, but I could attack any homin.

My idea on the matter is that you switch back to faction based PVP when you're labeled. So that means:

1) Kamis attack Karavan and Marauders, but can't be attacked by Rangers, except in a Karavan or Marauder's team.
2) Karavans attack Kamis and Marauders, but cannot attack Rangers, except on a team of Kamis or Marauders.
3) Rangers attack Marauders only, but cannot be attacked by Karavan or Kamis, except in team with Marauders.
4) Marauders attack Kamis, Karavan and Rangers, as well as all 3 can attack Marauders. (Addition: Marauders can attack each other)

Since it depends on fame, all of them under fame 25 or above -25 cannot be involved in any fight.

It's true that this is a bit strict in an open world like Atys, but it gives you a certain security not to get killed by a faction's own people, which would be pretty strange in that case.

Besides, the fame for factions makes more sense again. The only use to increase the fame of factions like Kami or Karavan would be the altars, which is a pity.

What do you think about it?

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Heernis
The idea is to promote more factional PVP. This can be done in 2 ways, as far as I know: Preventing killing homins of your own faction (very restrictive), or creating incentives through fame to make PVP possible between your faction, but leaving the decision to the homin.

For orientation, for example, the approach of avoiding friendly fire would be a win. That would make the cosmetic old markings for faction and citizenship. Then at least you know who you're dealing with.

Then of course it is important, as I think, that there must also be consequences for PVP. There is no death penalty for killed homins. That is fine. But the loss of fame in small steps or the increase of fame would be a wonderful menchanic and is legitimate to give homins an orientation to a faction, but not to force them strictly into a caste system. Since you have chosen a faction *voluntarily*, you can count on the consequences, just as in the countries of Umbra you accept the risk of being killed by higher levels. This should be extended to all PVP areas except duels and training in the Arena.
placio
Okay, maybe a rework of the pvp point scoring could be more punitive against mortal enemies teaming up, currently opposing fames on the same team cancel each other out, but unfortunately that was not what this post was about- although in spirit it wants more clear cut faction divisions, that could be done by modifying the already existing rewards.

I did provide the reason why I don't think its necessary, and I suggested an alternative that PvP point calculation could be changed to give less or no points if mortal enemies ally.
Kimmerin
Let me explain you by what factors any PvP-community is driven (Ryzom being no exception).

1) Achievement - and by this term I mean not silly titles or checkmarks in Achievement list, I mean the feeling that you have reached something, that you and your team / guild / alliance have changed the world around.

2) Rewards - be it loot from enemies or their property, or PvP points, badges, whatever. The stuff you get if you win.

3) PvP mechanics and PvP itself as a process - interesting mechanics with a lot of variety and theorycrafting, engaging activity in which one have to think and act fast, have to know the game, with lots of things to choose from, fitting different playstyles - that's what keep players interested and makes them logging in game.


Now, in Ryzom, there is:

- no achievements to speak of. Win 100 fights or lose 100 fights, your faction neither gain nor lose anything. Your actions in PvP don't matter, end of story.

- no rewards to speak of. Rewards obtained with PvP points are scarce and aren't that good, the only thing that is useful is the skirt and crystals for Maras.

- mechanics and PvP process are so-so. There is strong emphasis on quality of gear and random numbers. The variety is low.

Consider all of this and you won't be surprised why PvP community in Ryzom is a small bunch and why PvP players don't stick around for long, when there are so many other games that have to offer much more to them.

Edited 8 times | Last edited by Heernis (12 months ago)

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#2 [en] 

In addition we could add that Marauder can attack also Marauder, lore wise it make sense.

And +1 for the idea, it was since long time requested on Atys.

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#3 [en] 

The description you give from the Wiki was the Faction PvP as it was used to be before the Merge ;)

But yeah, i hightly agree on a "Faction tag" ( +RP tag ) return.

#4 [en] 

Revvy
In addition we could add that Marauder can attack also Marauder, lore wise it make sense.

And +1 for the idea, it was since long time requested on Atys.

Sure that makes sense... So i would prefer then that only Marauders can kill everything/everybody, but they can be killed by everything/everybody.

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#5 [en] 

Mithian
The description you give from the Wiki was the Faction PvP as it was used to be before the Merge ;)

But yeah, i hightly agree on a "Faction tag" ( +RP tag ) return.

So "faction tag" is understandable, but "Roleplay tag"? Any explaination?

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#6 [en] 

I’m confused, PvP stands for Player vs. Player not Faction vs, Faction.

#7 [en] 

Heernis
Mithian
The description you give from the Wiki was the Faction PvP as it was used to be before the Merge ;)

But yeah, i hightly agree on a "Faction tag" ( +RP tag ) return.

So "faction tag" is understandable, but "Roleplay tag"? Any explaination?
To me Faction tag is already a tag with roleplay meaning.
So i don't support fully the idea of a roleplay tag.

Its more a gadget/comestic addition than anything else i think :)

Placio
I’m confused, PvP stands for Player vs. Player not Faction vs, Faction.

What is a faction dude? It is composed of what?

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Revvy (1 year ago)

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#8 [en] 

Placio
I’m confused, PvP stands for Player vs. Player not Faction vs, Faction.

Surely it is Player versus Player but there are different situations. There are duels, Guild/Team PVP, Fractional PVP, OP-War PVP. So i am only talking about Fractional PVP, which is actually a "deathmatch"-PVP and not Fractional.

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#9 [en] 

Revvy
In addition we could add that Marauder can attack also Marauder, lore wise it make sense.

And +1 for the idea, it was since long time requested on Atys.
Mithian
The description you give from the Wiki was the Faction PvP as it was used to be before the Merge

If you find a way to prevent the abuse that had happened with the old system.

Still, it was nicer than the one today, even with its flaws.
I'll vote for reverting back to the old system (pre-merge).

#10 [en] 

I’m concerned by a pattern of pvp and rp related posts that are requesting game mechanics to force players to play only one way. PvP rewards are already based on your fame stats, yet you are still allowed to fight solo, as a team, as a guild, as a faction, as a nation, as an organization, etc, etc, etc.

What happened to Ryzom being a sandbox?

Last edited by Placio (1 year ago)

#11 [en] 

Neira
If you find a way to prevent the abuse that had happened with the old system.

Still, it was nicer than the one today, even with its flaws.
I'll vote for reverting back to the old system (pre-merge).

About what abuse are you talking?

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To be clear what i am supposed like to suggest, is that, the fractional PVP should be restricted to faction, or do a rename of that function, so there will be no confusion.

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#12 [en] 

I would like to answer..

It's been too long already, we gave the lead of the game and opinion to the kind of players who think sandbox is Ryzom, and mean sandbox as the definition of Ryzom today.
The same people who complain about ideas or improvement, 1 against 20.
From what it has become, and as we can see the result of it, it is very alarming..
Maybe its time to get back to the Saga of Ryzom, and clean a bit the failure of Ryzom.

But i will not answer this... ops, did i think out loud?

Otherwise, care describe your definition of sandbox? im very ignorant about this subject, i need your light.

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#13 [en] 

Neira
I'll vote for reverting back to the old system (pre-merge).

Can you provide a rough description of how it was pre merge? It's been too long so can't really compare, thanks.

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Bisugott(Atys)

#14 [en] 

Aleeskandaro
Can you provide a rough description of how it was pre merge? It's been too long so can't really compare, thanks.

Patch 1.10 PvP

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Neira (1 year ago)

#15 [en] 

Hi guys !

I disagree with returning to former system ! current one is better imo.

The model which is describe in the beginning of this topic is too simplistic. You forget the nations ! Fyros vs matis, tryker vs zorai, mercenary vs whatever, etc.

Combinations can be so complex, that's why current system was created !

Isn't it unfair to allow marauder to fight between themselves while other couldn't ? How does any faction/nation couldn't have an internal conflict ?

Having a flag saying what is your faction can also be criticized as meta-roleplay. But I can understand that some of you like the feeling of a whole team sharing the same flag. I would agree of having them reintroduced as cosmetic only. And one could configure it's interface to hide them, like hiding guilds logo, titles or even names.
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