DISCUSSIONS AROUND ONGOING PROJECTS


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#22 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
Hello,

Further to your feedbacks, we are thinking to modify the new gameplay for care plannings.

We thank you for all your feedbacks, they help us to better adjust our additions and modifications.

Last edited by Tamarea (7 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#23 Report | Quote[en] 

Siela
First you want to not limit content, but now you're in favor of it? what now? do you want 250 skills or all skills limited to 50?
That is not the problem in my opinion, the difference is big enough to be incentive to sub.

For adding jumping, it's not really easy, and in my opinion not needed, we're very well without jumping. Discussion is it hard to add jump to Ryzom

I think a lot of good things are thrown out there that we can compromise on. Remember this is all about collaboration and compromise, but I do not like limiting content that does not allow you to play the full game. Spells could be either way...types of weapons...meh...the waving and lightning and such...ya.

Jumping is a habit for most people in other games and its a BIG turn off for people when they try to play Ryzom. I know all about the discussions about adding jumping to Ryzom and I also know people that simply do not play the game because of it. If I did not already love Ryzom because it was the first big MMO I played I would not have continued playing it when I came back after quitting because I played other games where I could jump and it was very weird to not be able to jump in Ryzom. I knew I loved the game though and that I would get over not being able to jump and I did, other people do not make it that far. Can't jump=uninstall.

#24 Report | Quote[en] 

Siela's comments about jumping are completely the opposite to my own. Ryzom was not my first, nor my second MMO but I have stayed with it for considerably longer than any other MMO I have tried.

The one thing which I found nauseating, within the first hour of my WoW experience, was the persistent bunny-hopping everywhere, without reason. Clearly everyone found it either enjoyable or funny to do this. It was one of the things, along with the boring, repetitive nature of training at every level, which made me decide, at level 60, that I had seen enough and I left, never to return.

It was so refreshing to come into the world of this crazy rootball and find that no-one was jumping around. I was even happier when I discovered that one could not jump.

I have wondered many times since, whether anyone else felt the same way about jumping as I did, or whether everyone else would, in fact, simply uninstall if they discovered one could not jump.

#25 Report | Quote[en] 

I would only accept the addition of jumping to the game if the same modification was made for all aggro mobs (i.e. change the AI so that mobs could jump barriers as well.  It's only fair.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#26 Report | Quote[en] 

Bitttymacod
modification was made for all aggro mobs ...mobs could jump barriers....
No! Oh please! No! Kitins jump attacking you from above? Whaa!

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#27 Report | Quote[en] 

I know this is late, but I will add to the list of people saying the modification to careplanning should be reversed :)

Someone fresh off Silan with level 20 harvest skill could be level 50 in a few hours of digging with a master. This is my favorite go-to method to powerlevel guild members (and not only) -- instead of letting them get frustrated with their puny prospection skills.

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#28 Report | Quote[en] 

Mjollren
I know this is late, but I will add to the list of people saying the modification to careplanning should be reversed :)

Someone fresh off Silan with level 20 harvest skill could be level 50 in a few hours of digging with a master. This is my favorite go-to method to powerlevel guild members (and not only) -- instead of letting them get frustrated with their puny prospection skills.

lets be honest here, only subbed players use a freemium alt for careplanning, lets us not be disillusioned and claim that theres hordes of independant freemium players going around helping subbed players.
be truthful and just say outright that you want to the change reversed because it affects personal interests of the subbed players. (myself included no offence)

the powerleveling of 'real' freemiums isn't effected much by pre-150, they will still get a load of xp at the q150cap for the main digger. if you powerlevel them to the freemium cap, whats there to do for them? stop playing or pay? imo thats hurting the freemiums. if they cant even level to 125 without being handheld what they gunna do when they sub?

tho whether reversing it is a good thing for the livespan of ryzom or not, i'd say yes it is, that change doesn't effect freemiums at all, what? worried freemiums help a subbed and get 50% of the q250 mats with which they cant do much cept degrade crafting or waste the quality potential?

im all for reversing it, i already find foraging dreadfully boring and takes longer to level then other skills even WITH a careplanning alt, with this change im never going to forage ever again.
And certainly not going to sub an alt solely for careplanning while said alt can still heal just fine without.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Magez (7 years ago)

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#29 Report | Quote[en] 

I consider that statement polemic, untruthful and close to a violation of forum rules. Of course there may be some who deeply dislike the loss or uselessnesss of their f2p helper account and don't speak out, but it is not up to you to judge upon whether or not the criticism is "honest".

I usually prefer to dig together with my fully subbed second account, but am not against accepting a lower level digger for CP (and, of course, prospection). During such interactions I like to tell those players about tricks how to dig effectively, which stanzas to acquire first etc. if such conversation is appreciated (most time it is).

I frequently read in uni that higher level diggers were asking for CPers. That won't be possible anymore with the recent change. As I experienced on uni, CP applications were serviced faster than calls for CPers. Not few of those accepting a real player CPer let their f2p alt pause during such activies.

Beneath all that, frustrating the subbed players, even those who resent the nerfing of their f2p alts, is a bad and wrong move. We cannot afford to lose active players.

And your other arguments aren't overly conclusive. A low level CPer, even a lvl 30-40 or so, so far was well able to provide sufficient ground stability in most cases, and so was a possible partner even for high level diggers, much more after crossing the lvl50 or 70. This is the most boring part of a digging career where solo diggers retrieve few mat and proceed slowly. So the "powerleveling" of "real" (I assume, non-alt is meant) freemiums is very much affected as they are losing partners. There are more active diggers in the 200-250 range than below.

Btw., why should it worry a f2p to receive mats of higher quality? That does not follow at all, they can do everything with those mats no less than with mats of their own level, even more, they may try to sell them to other players at a, say 2000% rate, which is 880 dapper/mat at q250 as compared to 40 dap/mat for q50 stuff. Btw, "degrade crafting" aka overcrafting is great for craft skill leveling.

But it is obvious that diggers able to harvest >q150 mat will not accept receiving q150 at maximum. It would not give any xp for any team member (or 5 or 9 xp or so) beyond digging lvl 170 of the subbed digger.

Btw you seem to have fairly low experience in foraging except you are one of the consistent digging haters (I accept that attitude, of course). Digging is exhausting between lvl 21 (where you get through Silan missions) and lvl 75 ca., there is not much yield and there are few stanzas to fine tune harvesting. Afterwards, many, including me, get addicted to digging. Though I have mastered all ecos, I am out to harvest regularly for several purposes. So do many other harvesting masters, and so far they liked to accept lower level CPers.

Last edited by Daomei (7 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#30 Report | Quote[en] 

@ Mages:

Actually, you're wrong.

I'm dead bored of digging already. Haven't dug a decent amount of mats in months. And I don't plan to touch digging just for the sake of leveling my craft, it feels like wasted time with each bag of materials.

But, what I *have* done is exactly what I said: pick up a guildie or a random person whose level is 10+, brought them to careplan my nodes, and do it until they're level 45-55. That is purpose enough to make me dig a bit. However, if taking a careplanner means digging q150 mats.. those are pointless to me.

Just my take on things.

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#31 Report | Quote[en] 

What i ment was more in the lines of me being sure theres being more people against the change for their own gain, rather then in support for it for freemium players sake.
Daomei
Btw., why should it worry a f2p to receive mats of higher quality? That does not follow at all, they can do everything with those mats no less than with mats of their own level, even more, they may try to sell them to other players at a, say 2000% rate, which is 880 dapper/mat at q250 as compared to 40 dap/mat for q50 stuff. Btw, "degrade crafting" aka overcrafting is great for craft skill leveling.

the "what?.." part is aimed at those that made the choice to cap it aka sarcasm, and someone capped at 130craft cant viably degrade boost items relevant for 125 or q150. im talking about new players that the freemium attracts not dropped subbers.
Mjollren
But, what I *have* done is exactly what I said: pick up a guildie or a random person whose level is 10+, brought them to careplan my nodes, and do it until they're level 45-55. That is purpose enough to make me dig a bit. However, if taking a careplanner means digging q150 mats.. those are pointless to me.

but thats not a problem for a freemium player, im not attacking you or anything i find it honorable that you want to help out new players, as we all should, but the rule itself doesn't effect freemiums in your case, just you, the subber not wanting lower mats. sure hes a little effected for not getting powerleveled.. but hey thats called playing the game.
Daomei
I consider that statement polemic, untruthful and close to a violation of forum rules. Of course there may be some who deeply dislike the loss or uselessnesss of their f2p helper account and don't speak out, but it is not up to you to judge upon whether or not the criticism is "honest".

im sorry but... violation of rules? whats this kiddie pool rules? i cant assume my opinion of seeing people as dishonest? one which i still stand behind.
Daomei
I frequently read in uni that higher level diggers were asking for CPers. That won't be possible anymore with the recent change. As I experienced on uni, CP applications were serviced faster than calls for CPers. Not few of those accepting a real player CPer let their f2p alt pause during such activies.

it will still be possible, only capped at q150, the question is, will you the subber step down and be content with q150, it again only effects the subber negatively, the freemium is perfectly fine with q150.
what you will see in uni instaid = "looking for cp, q150+" rather then a generalized "looking for cp"

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Magez (7 years ago)

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#32 Report | Quote[en] 

Magez: Maybe you don't get it but it is insulting to call other players dishonest. And you have no right to judge that way. You have no data whatsoever about who is criticizing the change for their own gain (which is not illegitimate at all), for the sake of f2p players, or for the sake of the players' community as a whole. Personally, I could care wet shit about f2p CPers being nerfed as my CP (or the one I am CPing for) is fully subbed, and Spirit of the Bark like me (so I accepted low level CPers only for instruction purposes as they cannot gain xp when CPing for me, only by prospecting).

Next: It is ridiculous to expect that digging masters who are in need of q250 mats will accept digging q150 mats. And those still leveling at lvl 160 and above would get some 5 or 9 xp per digging for q150 mat which would render digging xp worthless for both the higher level digger and the freemium CPer, even if the higher level digger would accept to dig q150. It seems to me that you are completely unaware about what you are speaking about. It is complete nonsense that "the freemium is completely fine" with getting no xp.

You simply haven't understood relevant parts of game mechanics and are speaking out somewhat too loud for that. Sorry to have to say that.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#33 Report | Quote[en] 

Daomei
Magez: Maybe you don't get it but it is insulting to call other players dishonest. And you have no right to judge that way. You have no data whatsoever about who is criticizing the change for their own gain (which is not illegitimate at all), for the sake of f2p players, or for the sake of the players' community as a whole. Personally, I could care wet shit about f2p CPers being nerfed as my CP (or the one I am CPing for) is fully subbed, and Spirit of the Bark like me (so I accepted low level CPers only for instruction purposes as they cannot gain xp when CPing for me, only by prospecting).

Next: It is ridiculous to expect that digging masters who are in need of q250 mats will accept digging q150 mats. And those still leveling at lvl 160 and above would get some 5 or 9 xp per digging for q150 mat which would render digging xp worthless for both the higher level digger and the freemium CPer, even if the higher level digger would accept to dig q150. It seems to me that you are completely unaware about what you are speaking about. It is complete nonsense that "the freemium is completely fine" with getting no xp.

You simply haven't understood relevant parts of game mechanics and are speaking out somewhat too loud for that. Sorry to have to say that.

nowhere in your example is a new freemium player, freemium = 1-125 and such a person would get xp from a master digging q150.
an 1-125 would also love q150 mats, as those are mats higher then the highest thing they can craft, the highest freemium crafting skill is craft130, as such those mats are useful to them and as such they will be glad to have a master dig q150 with them. (whether the master likes q150 or not is irrelevant)

someone at 160 that stopped subbing wouldn't receive xp anywhere cept sub-125 skills. does the 160 want better mats then sub, does a 125 want better mats then sub.
what you want is for the 160 to still get his lvl mats when a 125freemium helps him, but thats not the freemiums player problem, its the 160's problem.

you keep looking at it from a subber perspective, for a new player 1-125 is all there is, q1 to q150 is all there is.
and thats fine, none of the rules effect him/her.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Magez (7 years ago)

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#34 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

You seem not to understand. If I (or Diwu for that case) with my lvl250 in all 5 ecos harvest, no matter which quality from 1..250, I get 0xp (not even 5 or 9 xp like a lvl 160..249 digger harvesting mat below her skill at q150 or lower). Any CPer in team would get exactly as much, namely 0xp. This is same from my perspective as a subbed player as from that of a f2p player.

Btw, "freemium" or f2p is not equal (!=) lvl 1..125, as there are not few player characters who are subbed from lvl 1 on (e.g. all up to 4 character slots of a subbed account which have not been developped simultaneously). That players who unsubbed do not get xp above lvl 125 is trivial.

Btw. digging q1 is very hard, just as a remark :)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#35 Report | Quote[en] 

Daomei
You seem not to understand. If I (or Diwu for that case) with my lvl250 in all 5 ecos harvest, no matter which quality from 1..250, I get 0xp (not even 5 or 9 xp like a lvl 160..249 digger harvesting mat below her skill at q150 or lower). Any CPer in team would get exactly as much, namely 0xp. This is same from my perspective as a subbed player as from that of a f2p player.

Btw, "freemium" or f2p is not equal (!=) lvl 1..125, as there are not few player characters who are subbed from lvl 1 on (e.g. all up to 4 character slots of a subbed account which have not been developped simultaneously). That players who unsubbed do not get xp above lvl 125 is trivial.

Btw. digging q1 is very hard, just as a remark :)

so your saying if theres a team of 2 diggers, 1 is lvl 250 and 1 is a freemium at lvl 90, the freemium doesn't get xp from the q150 thats being dug?
ifso then i didn't know that, but thats an xp problem not a q150 as cap problem. the fix would need to be enabling q150 worth of xp for the lvl 90.
if the lvl250 wants to do content with his freemium lvl90 friend he has to be content with playing at the lvl 90's content lvl, only makes sense to me.
or convince his friend to sub. you cannot expect the game to make an exception for the subbers sake.

"hey devs, i met this lvl1 guy that came from silan right away, i like him hes my friend, can you not make the rules apply to him to we can play together at my level content, k thnx"

anyone higher then lvl 125 who is unsubbed is also considered a freemium i know, but if that person wants to play content higher then 125 he has to sub, simple as that.
freemium = the content 1to125, want to play higher content you have to sub. if your already 160 and want to play 170 content, you have to sub.
126-250 is subber content.

Last edited by Magez (7 years ago)

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#36 Report | Quote[en] 

Yes, if one is lvl 250, one does not get xp anymore. The only way to get "points" is having dp being worked off. That does help a teamed helper, no matter whether healer, damage dealer, or CPer, only in case if she has DP, too. With that strange q150 rule, this will not be the case anymore, or only some ten to hundred dp being worked off every digging instead of up to seventy thousand.

To earn xp while digging, one has to dig at qualities usually from up 10 quality degrees above the own level to at most 10 degrees below. Higher above (possible if you are higher in a different eco) is not sensible as the failures destroy more than the "overdigging" benefits, lower below leads to very low xp, down to 5..9xp for qualities 20+ below level. So CPing earns XP only with diggers below lvl 250 digging -10..+10 around their level.

Until the recent change, a CPer could assist any such digger. A formerly subbed freemium with digging levels above 145 would not earn her xp even if the recent nerfing would not exist. Equally, an unsubbed melee with levels above 145 would not earn her xp when healing or fighting alongside. Even a subbed, say lvl 150 melee or mage attacking a, say lvl 130 foe in team would not earn xp. Such is the mechanics of team play.

But so far, most lower level players, no matter whether f2p or not, could contribute to lvl grinding teams. A CPer of, say lvl 30..70, could use her limited ground stability skills to prevent gas/explo most times and earn the same xp as her lvl 125..249 teammate. Similarly, every small player may assist stronger players as e.g. a healer in grinding teams fighting lvl248 kinchers/najabs, 247 hornchers, 250 plods/shalahs, 251 cuttlers, or 255 jugulas.

The good thing with that is the bond between even fairly low level and nearly highest level players. This bond is cut when nerfing the ability of lower level players to cooperate in team.

As told, all that does not apply to masters. Yet, digging masters may allow small harvesters to prospect for them. This aspect, fortunately, has not been nerfed.
"hey devs, i met this lvl1 guy that came from silan right away, i like him hes my friend, can you not make the rules apply to him to we can play together at my level content, k thnx"

A level 1 coming from Silan did a stupid move, btw., and it is hard to support her appropriately as a lvl 1 will have neither healing nor CPing abilities and has to work hard to get at least close to one who passed all Silan tests, being lvl35 min in melee or magic, and lvl 21 at minimum in all the rest. But the devs had made the rules apply to support even low level characters. The CP nerfing was an architectural breach of these rules.

One thing at the end: Please do not think that I argue out of arrogance or contempt. I value your thoughts and your interest in many aspects of the game and acknowledge that you have good knowledge and sane ideas about much of it. As far as I feel you to be in error, I consider these errors worth while the effort to be corrected. Btw, I don't claim to be always right.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Daomei (7 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral
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