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#31 Report | Quote[en] 

Virg (atys)
Icus
'or doesn't use the RP excuse to drag aggro on people'

You have answered your own question. The fact there exists an 'RP excuse to aggro drag' says it all. There is actually no excuse to aggro drag unless during PVP as its against the coc. The fact RPers have made one up.. well.. I refer back to my post of attempting to use RP to cover up being an ass. (I say this assuming your RP reason isnt pvp).
My post was confusing, i admit :) i never saw people giving an RP excuse to aggro drag (but i guess people already did it), and frankly i can't see what an RP excuse for that would be like ;p
On the subject of rezzing people for me, I know you don't have to, but tis just another example of roleplayers being asses. A good RP reason how about... for kamis at least 'Recruit Homins to their cause'. That took me 2 seconds to find in the lore.
I'm neutral. Shall i resurrect homin to recruit them to my non-cause ? ;)
Also, if i saw a matis wanting to rez me, i would rather suffer the pain of one resurrection (and a DP) than giving him this pleasure to humiliate me like that :)

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#32 Report | Quote[en] 

Why would he humiliate you? If it's a friendly helpfull community like pre merger then there doesn't have to humiliation.
Nobody never really felt humiliated well excpet when you by mistake bombed a bunch of low lvl kipee and they stunned you to death ;p

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#33 Report | Quote[en] 

Tiximei (atys)
I hope this discussion can be towed back on track and not descend into the pit outside Pyr where mudslinging is prevailing. Mind the language and be courteous please!

Ha! I like the idea - mainly because if it's near Pyr I'm very unlikely forced to watch it. ;)

But all in all we're back to the usual situation, involving most of the usual suspects ("Round up the usual suspects!") and defining "the roleplayers" as a fundamental evil which destroys Ryzom. It's a kind of musical standard, like the "Beer Barrel Polka", and some never grow tired of it. I think it became popular with the introduction of the outposts; I certainly heard it first back then, and I guess it made the round on all servers at the same time. You most likely won't find a thread fully dedicated to the bad manners or destructive behaviour of some non-RP-players, so it must be the truth that we, on the whole, are evil. E-V-I-L. Evil. Icus would, no doubt, agree with that as far as I'm concerned, but not necessarily because of the same reasons. ;)

I never liked the "Beer Barrel Polka", to be honest, and therefore - having my two dappers spent - I'm out of this thread (or, as some may say, move my ass out here). ^^

P.S.: If I'd see, say, Icus lying around somewhere, I would rez him, of course. I'd be delighted to help. =D

Last edited by Salazar (6 years ago) | Reason: Change of language tag.

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#34 Report | Quote[en] 

You are however Fyros? *Considers Fyros lore*

Considering all Fyros hold true to the four values, you would expect their actions to reflect these values. Particularly those in higher positions than normal Fyros Patriots will uphold those values. Now take the imperial army (which I believe are the guards- if not just take the guards). Guards who protect the cities also protect Matis homins, even vassals, when they are in trouble. Therefore this act, of helping Matisians in trouble, is considered honourable. As any Fyros should uphold the four values- the core essence of what being a Fyros is about, rezzing a Matis is seen as honourable. W5- a roleplay reason. (There are a million things you could think of if you don't agree with this).

I just deleted a whole block of rambling text you now don't have to read. Be happy. I will simplify: The point is there is always an element of choice invovled. Your hands aren't tied behind your back by RP. If you choose to not rez some poor noob who has just died that to me just a simple summary of what too many RPers are like. If we all did that think of the endless DP that Bina would have.

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________________________

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NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#35 Report | Quote[en] 

LOL Salazar! I'm youtubing the "Beer Barrel Polka" now and having a blast. ^^

Anyhow, ahem. Back to the original discussion. As you can see Crick, your decision to remain faction neutral in order to avoid all the drama (and get all the rezzes) was a sound one. ^^

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#36 Report | Quote[en] 

ok so i've been reading this thread since it started.

i'm not one to RP at all UNLESS someone want's to try to use RP to force me to change, play a different way, or conform to their more "selfish" ways. in cases like those, i roleplay to shame them, i'm a peaceful kami homin for the most part, trying to convert those that are on the "wrong" path (in rp terms, personally, there's no wrong way to play unless it's negative in any way to the community).

so when someone dies, be them karavan, marauder, kami, neutral, trytonist, ranger, or "other" i'm going to try to rez them, like someone else said, it's not about RP at this point, it's about keeping ryzom from falling into the other MMO's where common kindness is rare or nonexistent. even if that play is a hard RP'er i'll offer a hand, it's nothing to do with RP for me, i don't play ryzom to RP, i play a game to have fun, that's what ryzom is for me. sure i've wrote a huge amount of "rp stories", all of which are wrote in the 3rd person, nothing to do with my toon at all.

if your RP is so strict that you can't rez someone that's dead as an act of kindness, then i just don't know. it's beyond me why everyone has to be anal about things, the bottom line at the end of the day is ryzom's a game, and it should be fun, but if the only way you can find ryzom fun is to be extreme about everything and shun those that don't do like you do, it's my personal opinion that your hurting one of the very best things about ryzom, the friendly and helpful community.

to me RP has a time and a place, the rest of the time it's a game to enjoy. outside of those RP events (offical or player made) is there really a need to "be" your toon?

i've been lucky for the most part, most of the RP players i've had interactions with are down to earth humans that are mature enough to see that RP has a time and place and doesn't have to be a full-time way of play. but i've had my times with the extremist's as well, i'll not go into it because for me it's history.

RP or don't RP, that's a choice up to each of us, but don't forget that we all play things our own way and we all need a little flex if we're going to all get along.

ok i've put my 12 dappers in.....

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#37 Report | Quote[en] 

I think even if you are in character all the time it shouldn't mean you can't rez someone. I think homins should be like us people, clearly they look like people. I'd imagine they have similar feelings and stuff. There are many conflicts around the real world and a lot of hate. Still I'd say at peace time when a random person sees another random person about to die they'd try to help. I don't think they'd do nothing just because the person is from a country you had war with a while back. I respect the players who want to RP, but what kind of toon are you playing? One who has no feelings whatsoever? One who watches someone die in front of them cause they are not from your faction?

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I don't want to be the one
The battles always choose
'Cause inside I realize
That I'm the one confused

#38 Report | Quote[en] 

I can see at least one case in which not rezzing someone would be acceptable (and yes I agree that everyone can disagree with me on this): if it is not asked for. Example: last time my character got a rez I was trying to death-port. I truly believe the player who rezzed me acted out of friendship or humanity or respect or... and he had me lose a few important minutes getting killed one more time.
I will never consider this player a whatever name I've read in this thread even if I'm sure someone nitpicking could consider it as "forcing me to play his way" by denying me to use deathport. And I'd still respect him and his way of playing even if I were unable to understand them and to find any reason for his acts.

If I can see one case maybe there are other ones.


And as for Crick's initial question: I've seen some hostility in forums against someone vaguely defined as "the hard-RPer". It hurts a bit since I consider myself in character all the time.
But I've never met personally with hostility from other players in game be them RPers or not. At least once I had talked to them. (My character has met with hostility from other characters but it's another story entirely)

#39 Report | Quote[en] 

Death porting isn't RP related (actually would love an RP story about why deathporting is good or even considered something normal for homins to do). But when deathporting it's always best to announce it in around chat or something since ppl can't see if you are deathporting or just got killed.

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#40 Report | Quote[en] 

Most homins (who are not rping) would like a rez (and I have been rezzed by a homin who was my enemy - she is very nice - will not name but she also steals bosses under RP licence)

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#41 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | Fran├žais | [English]
One night, a member of my guild has slipped into the herb and died. Kamiste raised him. A kamiste who raises someone with as guild emblem "Antekami" !!! After that, I kill my brother, to wash the offense. And I kill them, again, and again, to be sure he has purified. Please, be kindly : if you are kamist, just fight. Not resurrect. Or abjure your faith.


Maybe I am this rolist that you don't like. I 'm a "bad guy." The character is evil; the person playing it, alas, is not much. I would sometimes be 100% RP, but I also know that we are here in a game, and some things are not funny, not "a game".

I can insult you in surroundings; but privately, I can ask you if all is well. If I feel that you don't want to RP, I became a neutral guy ... Probably I don't play long time with you, too.

If you are one of my friends, and I know we can "hate" ourselves, yes, I can send you torbaks and let die, and laughing on your body; but if during a walk, clumsiness, my torbaks fall on a unknown people, I spend OOC, I ask in tell if the person wants a revive, I ask forgiveness. Only OOC, eh! Never do Fakuang would help someone else. If a player that I have helped in this way speak publicly, I blacklist him ! (good luck for help after that, so).

I prefer ignore the revive demands ... I am not a Ranger. However, if the person who needs it is next to me ... Ok, OOC also : care, and goodbye dude.

The Charter is clear: we can not hide behind the RP to insult, harass. Until today, all people seem okay with me. It is possible to play a very bad boy in toon, while fairplay as a player. These are two different things. Do not ask me to be cute and join a hunting with Kamists: this is not what I want to play. However, if you like to play kami-kara-marauders together ... go ahead, it will deprive myself of anything except your company time this reunion guilty ^^

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago) | Reason: Edit to activate the multilanguage flag.

#42 Report | Quote[en] 

I agree with Xtarsia.

People should simply respect each other, as long as the CoC / charter is followed. No point sending "hate tells" to people in different factions teamed together. If you're against it, just don't play with them. Or react in RP or whatever.

But same thing. No point feeling personally offended if someone doesn't rez you or attacks you because they feel justified by their RP to do so. It's their right to do so and they enjoy playing Ryzom for the RP.

At the end of the day it's just a game. Be it OOC or IC. =P

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#43 Report | Quote[en] 

i just want to add, that on leanon rpers were - w/o exception very friendly and every one or most of - especially non-rpers faced them with respect and even "newbs" like it was me 2006 , who thought rp is ...just bullshi... were starting to find it cool. Becouse our rpers never "forced" other players, were always nice and in-character and the most important: they accepted everyone they made their thing and left others, too. with their noble actions and their help to everyone they attracted more players to rp than a missionaries could!

so the rpers who are aggressive now, they do not understand that they arr doing more harm to the game abd the rp at all then some "childish" troublemakers.

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Purg Derren

In Vino Veritas


Your mercenary of trust!

Discord

#44 Report | Quote[en] 

I disagree Purg. RP is playing a role. Be it good guy or bad guy. No one ever said a RP persona need to be always nice and love everyone. In fact at the core of all stories and script writing is conflict. Without that stories are boring.

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#45 Report | Quote[en] 

I'm sorry to hear that you have been treated with condemnations, Crick :(
But this can happen to RPers in any large MMORPG, even on "RP-servers", especially with new players who do not really understand what "roleplaying" is supposed to be.
Binarabi
Some of the worst behaviour in this game comes from rpers
... players who excuse all of this by saying it is role play
... it is hard not to think all rpers are like this
It's really sad that the whole of Ryzom's RP-community has gotten this kind of reputation nowadays because of a few griefers abusing every kind of absurd "reasoning" (like "this is RP") to camoflage their bullying.

Well, that, and way too "tolerant" GMs as well as Event-Team-Managers who support griefing by looking the other way, even if it happens right under their noses (sorry guys and ladies; you should really start to face the truth after all the years that players have been driven away one by one by similar circumstances).

I have to point out that there is an important difference between "saying this is RP" and actual roleplaying.

Sure, some of these people in fact fancy themselves as great roleplayers
* even if they also like to do emote-spams regularly,
* even if they "coincidently" only flame players from certain groups like specific language-communities, although some of the characters they flame are in fact reputable members of the same nation as the flamers,
* and / or if they will occasionally drag aggro onto members of guilds that they hate (although these guilds are of the same faction and have often been fighting alongside their own characters)...

These are actual examples.

RP you call that?
Yeah right. And Armas can fly.

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Like Salazar (and unlike Purg) I too remember the bad old times on Leanon when large-scale-PvP started and suddenly a lot of players phrased "RP"-hate-speeches in the chats like: "We pwn u Karas, lol!". What's "roleplaying" got to do with that? Still, some believed it was RP, because they just didn't know any better :( This is happening again today as we can see; and every time at least a few people will actually be hoodwinked.

Why do we not experience behavior like that within the German-speaking community on this now merged server anymore? Simple: players like that have systematically driven each other out of the game. And eventually when griefers can't find enough targets to grief any more, they themselves will then go search for better hunting-grounds elsewhere. Also there are always some players sticking together and continually motivating each other, mostly guilds, which makes them survive in the long run. Well, and some stubborn single individuals who just won't give up no matter what :)

This happened to what is now left from the German-speaking Leanon-community. We are the survivors. Plus those who joined us respectively joined Ryzom after the griefer-wave, and who then have been welcomed with kind, helping, open arms, so they are still with us - or will at least occasionally drop by from time to time.

We German-speaking roleplayers have learned our lessons from the disasters we have survived. We now prefer peaceful "let's all be friends and work together"-roleplaying mostly because we just don't want to see any more Ryzom-players leaving this game. Some think of it as the responsible-grown-up-way to act and look at things. Which is not breaking any roleplay-"rules" nor "logic"! And if we fight or engage in IC-discussions, it's usually in a moderate tone too. Well, OOC might be a different matter though, but you know how all forums can be like...

As a side note I'd like to mention that a good deal of the German-speaking roleplayers of today also are / have been pen & paper-RPers for years. Pen & paper RP belongs to the very few kinds of social games where you don't have to play against each other, but as a team versus the environment. Not even the game-master who fills the environment and NPCs with life verbally is playing "against" but instead "for" the players :) That also has an impact on our online-roleplaying-style I think.

So in my opinion that's why most of the German-speaking roleplayers you can find on Atys today are friendly people with mostly friendly characters. And most of us can read/write English too, even if not perfect ;)

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Someone once said "you can't mix up OOC and IC when you're talking OOC from player to player". In fact I believe you absolutely CAN go too far with mixing IC and OOC in RL, when for example:

* you as a human being in front of your computer really, really believe that a specific faction/group in a game you're playing is made of "the good guys"; so the motives of their NPCs and/or members cannot possibly be any other than altruistic and for the salvation of the world - everyone saying/believing otherwise must be an idiot
* you go to lengths to explain in details how things are on our RL-earth today (or have been in medieval times) and insist that all of this has to be the fundamental everyday-knowledge of all characters on a game-world where monsters, respawn, magic, teleport, immortality and magical healing is/are common...
* you insult, threaten and/or intimidate players OOC merely for the fact that they have chosen a specific game-faction, -race etc. to play, because this makes them a horrible RL-person in your eyes
* you flirt away just imagining (without even asking) that players look and "are" just like their game-avatars (especially gender-wise), and you verbally abuse them after realizing your assumptions have been wrong
* you start a brawl at an RL-meeting with people whose MMORPG-characters/toons belong to an "enemy"-guild
* you make a SWAT-team storm the house of a player after losing a PvP-battle or the like against them

These are actual examples of unhealthy things that have happened and are still happening.

The underlying fundamental problem might be just the same when players are griefing others and driving them out of the game using "RP"-methods and are justifying their behavior / words per "RP-reasons". Like by insulting players they meet for the first time by using formally correct IC-sentences addressed to characters/toons (assuming that this alone will make it "roleplaying"), depending on whatever little they believe to "know" about their targets. Now and again going wrong by that.

Mind that just "not receiving resurrection" usually is not a problem in itself, but the verbal abuse that comes with it or as an afterwards-excuse is - whether this comes camouflaged in an "RP"-style or not.

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It has already been mentioned in this thread: the Lore REALLY does not make Kami-diciples and Karavan-followers mortal enemies, nor Matis and Fyros (there are peace treaties in effect).

So your characters are not "forced" in any way to hate others who do not share the same beliefs or birth. It is not "bad RP" to be friendly, au contraire! For some of us it would be "bad RP" to IC hate members of other nations and factions after knowing and experiencing how all nations and both factions plus neutrals have been working together very often in the past for the purpose of saving all homins.

Marauders... well, maybe Marauders truly are mortal enemies of all the other homins. ;) Still the ones who insult others "RP-Style-like", who treat others badly or who pull every kind of trick to force others to behave similarly unsocial towards specific players/player-guilds are most often not playing Marauders, but are either playing fanatic Kami-disciples, fanatic Karavan-followers or fanatic nationalist.

Sorry to say, but in nearly all cases I have heard of or experienced myself it was PvP-lovers who chose to "roleplay" hatred even if they didn't have to, sometimes even though RP-logic would have demanded of their characters to act tolerant or even nice. Still they willingly chose to be insulting instead and to behave in griefing ways, hiding behind so-called "RP-reasons".

I have reasons to suspect that the majority of the players behaving in griefing ways absolutely deliberately intend/s to bully and hurt other players, that all they want is to "rule others" and feel great because of that, that a number of them purposefully aim at driving (at least some of) their targets out of the game, that they are fully aware of making up false flimsy excuses, merely trying to avoid punishment by falsely claiming that they "keep true to the logic/rules of roleplaying"...

Still, there's the "benefit of the doubt". Civilized people don't punish the innocent.

That's what "officials" always have to consider. So whenever someone is not clearly breaking the code of conduct, the griefer will get away just fine by claiming "it was because of RP" - and GMs won't even give them a warning. Nor explain anything to them, nor ask them to be nicer since Ryzom needs every paying player. No matter how many players will leave the game because of stuff like that. Well, Atys is by far not the only online-game-world affected by such sneaky griefers, but as Ryzom has a small - and still dwindling - player-community by now, the wounds are quite large in comparison.

It's understandable that GMs don't want to kick players out of the game, precisely because the community is already small enough - but if you don't get rid of griefers pronto, then these are the ones who will drive 10 or 100 times more players away... In my opinion it is high time to at least pull the "RP-reasoning"-rug out from under griefer's feet to make them stop. Love and peace on Atys anyone (except for Marauders)? ;)

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TL;DR:
Griefers claiming "RP-reasons" for verbal abuses are actually most often not even roleplayers or really bad ones, so don't fall for their tricks; and most German-speaking roleplayers are nice people, so come and meet with us - and let's change the world :)

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Zhoi (6 years ago)

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