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IDEAS FOR RYZOM


make generic materials an item we can trade
agree / se mettre d'accord / zustimmen / estar de acuerdo / согласны 50 (11)
72.5%
disagree / être en désaccord / anderer Meinung sein / no estar de acuerdo / не соглашаться 16 (1)
23.2%
Other 3
4.3%
Abstain 4
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#31 [en] 

they are perfect for teaming with new refugees so you can make their stuff for them whilst they get generic bowrifle in Fairhaven - and lots of other things as well

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#32 [en] 

both good points, but i'm thinking more of the players that just destroy Q50 gen mats rather then do either of those options (bina and mj's) further more the players that would just destroy them could give them to those of us that would do as you both suggested.

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Remickla (atys)
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#33 [en] 

Also, Rollocks suggested making bullets out of them. Either to leech levels, or to attempt to stun people in pvp (via aim-head).

Obviously, all these are niche uses. Best if those mats were just tradeable :)

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#34 [en] 

I levelled most of my range using q50 gen mats.

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#35 [en] 

yep, more good reasons to make them tradeable.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#36 [en] 

someone recently mentioned that this would be nice, i thought i'd bump this for them to see it.

fine, basic, choice would be nice if they could be traded.

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Remickla (atys)
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#37 [en] 

People have said it would be possible to create a bunch of alts to donate generic materials to others or yourself. That seems a problem.

But maybe we can do something that works for both: How about this:

Make a special "tradeable" generic material type. Let the faction merchants sell this kind, and for applications where it's not meant that the materials should be tradeable (starting mats, mats from the silan training missions, maybe mats from Atysmas/special events, etc), use the old un-tradeable type.

Last edited by Carmy (4 years ago)

#38 [en] 

those that mention the alts, don't account for the amount of effort and time would require to use said alts. I know, i've tried it with many alts, if you want to spend 6 hours doing nothing but earning a single stack of 250 mats, more power to you (that's running 8 toons with 100 fame doing a full turn in to NH)

honestly, it's just an excuse when someone goes on about it. the whole thing about silan, it's very limited, and alts would be of no help, given the starter mats are only Q10.

as for the whole thing about merger toons, honestly, it's a finite amount, once they're gone they're gone, silan only has Q1 tools, so you can't craft anything above Q50 in silan anyway.

in all honesty, anyone can create alts and do anything in ryzom, but each alt requires extra time and effort to get fame, skills, occ's, ect. each alt is going to require more and more work, making the whole thing about alts rather pointless in the long run.

but everyone's happy with the status quo, stagnation, no change, no improvement.

i wonder how many Q50 gen mat's will be destroyed this atysmas because the looters of the atysmas trees didn't want anything but Q250 gen-mats.

i'll never stop fighting for this change, but i know i have a better chance of selling ice water in he|| because everyone wants to go on about the if's without really looking at how much work it would require to do what they claim would ruin things.

for those of us with many alts that have tried it, we already know it's just not worth it in the end. i guess they're really afraid someone might flood the market with gen mat gear or something.

anyway, i'll keep trying to get this, but i don't expect it to ever happen (until someone like minded to me buys ryzom and strives for improvements, nay sayers be damned.)

ok i've ranted enough.

talk

ps. look at the poll results, sure seams that more are in favor then not in favor. but who are we but the paying customers?

Last edited by Talkirc (4 years ago)

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Remickla (atys)
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#39 [en] 

Talk -- Stop looking at the polls until they have hundreds of votes.  You've got a total of 67 votes in your poll.  That's a small fraction of those who are active in game.  Polls only mean something if they have been carefully selected against a representative fraction of the population (as in political polls) or if they represent a substantial (even if self-selected) fraction of the total population. 

Argue from factual or rational basis, or from simple conviction, but don't point to polls, please.

Experience has shown that if training up alts can get you extra goodies, people will do it.

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#40 [en] 

I didn't realize the alt thing was such a charged topic :/ Let's try this again:

I'm not really sure why generic mats aren't tradeable. But maybe there are important reasons in some cases.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems ok for the generic mats from the faction merchants to be tradeable. I would like that, personally. I'm not sure I want to do the faction missions, but it would be nice to get the goodies from them through trade. (cats, crystals are already tradeable.) I'm not sure if this addresses Talk's original concern, though.

So why not make some mats tradeable? I don't know if it's super high priority from what I can see(and I obviously don't see everything, especially as a newer player), but it might not be too difficult.

Make a new "tradeable" generic raw material item based on the old one, and use that in cases when it's ok for the mats to be tradeable. Keep the old untradeable mats in cases where it's better they're not tradeable.

#41 [en] 

Your  suggestion is perfectly reasonable, and all it needs is a new item sheet. Given all the rest of the stuff that the dev team is dealing with atm, it may take a while.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#42 [en] 

the new sheet item, from what i understand is very complex, but making the current gen mat's tradeable from what i've been told, is not much work at all, maybe 10 minutes was the quote i was given in terms of how much time it would take.


like many others i can't understand why they're not tradeable.

carmy, someone else in the past pointed to the fact that crystals and cat's are tradeable, and while gen mat's might get traded around, i know many players with alts to get crystals (mostly mara's, because for them the only way to get crystals is via pvp points, which are in short supply, unless of course you make an alt and farm them).

bittty, sure some ppl will make alts, and while those people are grinding those alts, you'll be killing bosses, digging, and doing productive stuff while someone basically wastes time just so they can trade a few gen mats? as much as i use alts, even i know that would be more work in the long run the it's really worth in terms of NH bought gen mats. when it comes to gen mats that are won, so many ppl either destroy the low level one's, or have them stacked up in their apt's taking up slots.


as for the poll, i can't help it that 50% or more of the player base don't read the forums, don't vote on polls (after 10 years and rarely if ever getting anything requested that had a poll, it's no wonder no one bothers) as for your high numbers, i have 67 votes, so about 1/3 to 1/5 of the active population (minus alts). (someone said that ryzom has roughly 300 subbed players, many of those subbed alts)

so unless you put a poll directly in someone's face and force them to read and vote, there's no way to get everyone to do it, so what you see is what you get, odds are that most of the votes came from people that strangely hold onto the hope that we might get something we've been asking for.

i keep seeing more vet's leave ryzom, and loose intrest, sure this idea won't keep them alone, but showing a win for the players based on requests might give them hope and reason to stick around a little longer.

i'll stop dragging this dead horse for a bit and give you a chance to reply if you choose to.

talk

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#43 [en] 

Sure does sound a lot easier to just change the existing item sheet, and might be worth it.

As long as someone's trying to get a sense of player preferences, personally I'd probably get some utility from a change to tradeable though for me personally it isn't a high priority.

I feel like I might be missing something as to why they're not currently tradeable, so I'm hesitant to fully get behind a proposal when I don't feel I understand everything involved. But maybe I'm not missing something. I already put my vote down for "other" with my original post here, anyway.

(And, despite some discomfort, I would like to note for the sake of honesty that I'm not personally a paying customer, at least at the moment -- I'm using a free trial account, so perhaps my preferences shouldn't be weighted much if at all.)

I mostly wanted to reply in the first place because I like to support the things people put forth the effort to make happen, at least sometimes when I can. I can take the poll and weigh in a few thoughts, anyway, I hope they're helpful to the effort.

#44 [en] 

One counter argument I may see is that already not few homins have alts with citizenship leeching nation points over NH. There would be another incentive to get materials over that channel. While this is demonstrably uneconomic for q250 generic mats, the same is not true for those of lower quality, especially q50-q150. Therefore, there may be a channel for exploits.

The argument in favor of making generic materials tradeable is that the loot from killable christmas trees, mainly consisting of lower q generic mats, is not useful for most players. As Rollocks has proposed, using q50 mat for launcher ammo is indeed useful, so is (Virg's argument) usage as ammo for launcher and autolauncher when doing "leech training" (just doing dmg once with those weapons, the attacked mob being killed e.g. by teammates, or enchants).

I am still not decided about the affair. Making generic mats tradeable would not open abysses of exploit, rather small loopholes at worst. So there is no severe concern about allowing it. On the other hand, the utility is questionable as well. Ownership of gen mat should motivate players to think about ways to use them in a useful and creative way. The possibility to trade them or give them away appears as a cheap escape, only bit better than destroying them. After all, generic mats eat neither bulk nor weight.

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#45 [en] 

In regard to atysmas trees, if you open the presents and don't want the mats, leave it on the ground and a teammate can pick it up if they are quick about it.

I'm not opposed to the idea, especially using the NH reasoning... It's very easy for a knowledgeable player to get 999 mats in less than an hour, getting a stack of generic mats would take much longer and be so annoying... So I guess I support the idea although I probably won't use it much :)

@Bitty, most polls barely get over a dozen voters, this is obviously a topic that interests more players than the typical forum content.
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