English French German Spanish Russian
Marauders - English - Ryzom Community ForumHomeGuest

English


uiWebPrevious123456uiWebNext

#1 Report | Quote[fr] 

Je ne suis pas certain que ça soit l'endroit approprié et je laisse les admin deplacer mon posts si besoin.

Mais... Qu'est-ce que les maraudeurs pour vous tous? Comment interprétez-vous ce groupe? quelles hatitudes doivent-ils avoir?
en effet je pense qu'il y a une grande différence d'interpretation de la Lore entre les joueurs d'Arispotle et d'Aniro.

Commençons par cela, peut être... Maraudeurs, definissez votre groupe svp...

---

Jazzy Mac'Plantey , Nhor Drakan
Chef de la guilde Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de l'Unité Fédérale Armée
Citoyen célèbre Tryker
Gardien et défenseur de la fédération

#2 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Jazzy (atys)
Je ne suis pas certain que ça soit l'endroit approprié et je laisse les admin deplacer mon posts si besoin

Agree, Jazzy - I have asked for the discussion part of it to be moved to a different and more appropriate forum

But - it cnnot go under general at the moment - as these are not merged - and we appear to have lost a forum for OOC - out of character? (HRP I think you call it Jazzy?)

Last edited by Binarabi (5 years ago)

---

Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#3 Report | Quote[en] 

Let me start off by saying that this thread should not, in my opinion, be called Marauders. I will endeavour to explain this further because I feel strongly that this is not simply about Marauders, but goes above and beyond simply discussing the Tryker Fair.
Tamarea (atys)
[OOC] Dear players,
 The Animation Team must intervene on this delicate matter to remind you of some essential elements:
 
 Importance of mutual respect
 
 RP and non-RP players share the same server. Certainly there approach of the game is different, but this is not an unsurmountable problem if everyone makes ​​an effort. When a matter of concern presents itself, if you do not find a solution by talking quietly together, then we advise you to turn to a mediator. In this case, the Animation Team can be called first, since this problem has to do with a role play event.
 
 What is a RP event?
 
 It is an event in which players play the role of their character, both consistently and in compliance with the Lore of Ryzom. In this type of event, friendships between players should not be taken into account: this is the game's story, and the experiences of the characters dictate their conduct.
 
 What is an non-RP event?
 
 This is an event that is not bound to the coherence of the story or the characters lives and experiences. A non-RP event is above all a good time shared by all players who want nothing but to have fun together. During such an event, the game's story and the experiences of the characters are of no importance. Only the feel of the moment matters.
 
 Intrusion in an out of roleplay (HRP/OCC) manner in a roleplay event (RP/IC) is equally as condemnable as disrespectful roleplay at a non-roleplay event .
 
 What is an assembly and what is the scope of its decisions?
 
 Each nation is represented by assemblies consisting of players and led by an animator. These assemblies meet regularly and may issue "laws" on their territory. These "laws" are often offered by the players themselves but must be approved by the animator (which refers to the Animation Team), as a safeguard and assurance of compliance with the Lore.  A meeting is a RP event. Its "laws" have a roleplay effect.

 What can we learn about the Marauders from the Lore?
 
 During the first Swarm (long before the time of your characters), many homins, helped by the Powers were able to flee the Old Lands and create Nations in the New Lands. The remaining homins stuck on the Old Lands survived with difficulty amidst the kitins. A homin, Melkiar united them under the name Marauders; to them and to Melkiar, the homins of the New Lands and the Powers had abandoned them to the claws of the kitins. That is why they are eager for revenge and vengeance.

The Marauders from the Old Lands have recruited angry homins in the New Lands and have indoctrinated them to serve their plans. Among these new Marauders, one can not only find idealists who really believe in Melkiar words, but also opportunists who seek to take advantage of their power and their technology. They also harbor in their midst people who are researched by the law, therefore avoiding prison and having a way to give free rein to their violent impulses.( http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/puben/wiki/L_Marauder_Civilization
http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_Marauder )
 
Roleplaywise, the Marauders of the New Lands are not nice guys but, on the contrary, are the villains of the story, agitators, and criminals. It is possible that amongst the Marauders, some have expressed doubts and have a different point of view, but the Marauders are seen by the homins of the Nations as villains. They are bandits who are unwelcome who will be chased with pikes when they are identified.

This RP view is also supported by the gameplay which requires every Marauder to be hated by every nation and religion (very negative reputation) and then to kill six Homins before advancing in his rite to be accepted as a Marauder in the New Lands.
 
 Marauders and Tryker market
 
  In this RP context, a Nation (here the Tryker nation) creating laws stating that the Marauders are unwelcome on their land and that if they come to market (a RP event), they will be hunted, is legitimate, logical, and consistent.
  
Also such a RP context, the fact that the Marauders are not interested in or violate the laws of a Nation they do not recognize is legitimate, logical and consistent.
  
 Therefore, if the Marauders come on Fair Haven's market despite the ban, it is normal that the guards try to chase or to kill them, and it also is consistent that the merchants refuse to sell anything (unless doing so under duress ...).
 
Specifically, nothing in the gameplay prohibits Marauder players from coming to market; we will however be asking the players to respect the roleplaying side of the event, and not to disrupt it by harassing via PVP (as opposed to possibly exchanging a few words, fighting a little, then leaving).
 
 What about the right to play as you want and where you want?
 
 Again, it is a matter of respect. The freedom of one person ends where someone else's freedom begins. Marauder players have the right to participate in a market, whether it is for gameplay reasons or roleplay reasons. Having the Marauders do some short RP raids on the market in retaliation would be reasonable, but having the battle shift onto the non-roleplay level and become a verbal battle between players, escalating to exclusion of players from a future non-roleplay event is not. That would be the beginning of an escalation  endless and harmful to all.
 
Why not, for example, enjoy the Black Market in Darkmoor that is intended to be HRP and therefore open to all? Or prepare a RP "Mister Marauder" event, excluding any non-participant marauder?
 
 What if the conflict does not abate? 
 
If, despite this, things continue to go wrong, the Support Team is here to advise and enforce the proper rules of courtesy. If there are problems, it may have to impose sanctions ranging from a warning to a permanent ban, based on the previous record of the player.
 
Code of Conduct: Courtesy in the game
 
1. Harassment of any kind is forbidden.
2. You may not hinder another player during his play.
3. You must maintain respectful behavior toward other players and Customer Service Representative.
...
6. You may not hide behind roleplay to justify courtesy rule transgession.
 We hope this information will help you.
 And do not forget that Ryzom is a game! [/OOC]

With all due respect Tamarea and the animation team, I can understand the delicate position you are in. Despite this, I will be so bold as to say that your response was, in my humble opinion, void of any consideration of the gameplay in Arispotle.

And why should it be? Well, we were all forced together from different servers in the merge out of necessity. Along with us and our empty inventories and GHs, we brought our own Lore and our own individual approaches to gameplay and RP.  And it is you guys, up there, looking down on us all that should be more than well aware and should have anticipated clashes in interpretation of the Lore and its implementation in game. You failed to combine the developments of the Lore of different servers in a coherent manner so as to avoid clashes. I can accept that it was probably easier for you to leave it in our hands, but the result is that there is a great deal of animosity between different server players who feel strongly that THEIR approach is the correct approach. This, in my opinion, could have been avoided.

You said:
Tamarea
...it is a matter of respect. The freedom of one person ends where someone else's freedom begins.

A very wise thing to say. In theory its very simple and common sense. In practice, I will give you a specific example of where I was not respected as Elvanae from Arispotle:

- A number of French Karavan players/guilds approached the other karavan, post-merge, to say that we are not permitted from having contact with Kami players or trading with them etc (some of whom are long time friends from Ari) and if continued to do so, they would not share OP mats (back when we had mats worth sharing) and would not support the guilds who did this.

I'm not sure what you would say about that. My own personal opinion is that that particular scenario was basically bullying and threatening to those players who just wanted to interract with their friends and saw it as their right to be able to do so. On the other hand, the french players were clearly very strict on RP. The point of this is to show that these people could be argued to merely be observing RP rules. On the other hand, it was in practice, an attempt to bully us into changing our gameplay and the significant point here is, that they were in fact in a position of power to do so since they actually owned Outposts.

I feel strongly that there are major issues that we face now in this merged server. What time has shown is that we are still struggling to engage with one another in a harmonious way in order that we all enjoy the game as we used to pre-merge. But pre-merger days are gone and we need to adapt to this. All the players from the servers need to, not just Ari with their lenient RPing.


I would like to think that, IF THEY WANTED TO, RPers could find any number of reasons to allow the Marauders, in this situation, to participate in the Fair. Virg did, indeed, attempt to approach the situation from an RP perspective in previous forum posts.

Clearly, the strict RPers do not want to compromise. They do not take into consideration the histories from thi Ari server. They say that a lenient Ari RP gameplay will kill the game because they threaten to leave. And I will be shot down for saying this, these RPers are getting the full support from people who really should be impartial.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elvanae (5 years ago)

---

#4 Report | Quote[en] 

+1 Elv
This is a discussion on histories and game play - Aniro v Aris

Last edited by Binarabi (5 years ago)

---

Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#5 Report | Quote[en] 

Hey Elvanae, it's all a plot of the evil RPers.
They seek Atys domination...

#6 Report | Quote[en] 

Maximus (atys)
Hey Elvanae, it's all a plot of the evil RPers.
They seek Atys domination...

I'm glad this post has caught the attention of more of the people who RP.

Thanks for the productive input.

---

#7 Report | Quote[en] 

Jazzy (atys)
Je ne suis pas certain que ça soit l'endroit approprié et je laisse les admin deplacer mon posts si besoin.

Mais... Qu'est-ce que les maraudeurs pour vous tous? Comment interprétez-vous ce groupe? quelles hatitudes doivent-ils avoir?
en effet je pense qu'il y a une grande différence d'interpretation de la Lore entre les joueurs d'Arispotle et d'Aniro.

Commençons par cela, peut être... Maraudeurs, definissez votre groupe svp...


Hey everybody :-)

So if google trans is doing its job correctly .. Jazzy is asking marauder's definition of the marauder group?

Well, as a marauder on Atys (as I used to play Leanon, and back in those days, there were no marauders there) I have seen various "stages" of marauder-ism.

When I first turned marauder with my guild (Magister Mortalis) over a year ago, there was a welcoming marauder community, there were french marauders (quite a lot) and german marauders (one large guild) and us - next to Toak and his guild and Subo of course - as english speaking marauders. All in all we were maybe 70 players - I'd guess. Back then RP rules - mostly enforced by the french players - were strickt! My guild was told straight away that by RP we was forbidden to act friendly towards any nation or religion and that we were to only interact (trade/training/hunting bosses) with mara faction. Taking into consideraton that there was good numbers I did not mind at all. In RP-style we were hated, we hated back, we got attacked, we attacked back ... all fine by me. OOC I still had a lot of friends in other factions of course, I always did and always will have.

Unfortunately, time has changed a lot of things in the marauder camp, and not to the best of things. Maybe what other players do not realize - either because they have no insight into marauder camp, hold to "old" believes or what ever - is how small marauder faction actually is. And please, I am talking about marauders, who actually live a marauder game, not those being in kami/kara/neutral guilds but having mara's bad fame and tps. Because these days, marauder faction maybe consists of 20 players. And not all are online at the same time as we are talking US and EU based. And these 20 players - yes - are mainly Syndicate. We try to keep up marauder-ism .. I am still fine with being hated, fine with being attacked .. but only playing inside our own faction, as all the other factions do, is near on impossible. And do I really want that?

So, what am I trying to say here (if only I knew) ... times have changed, server population has changed, rp should change too - to a certain extent and for certain events. I think everybody, who has even the smallest insight in marauder faction - be it through rl friends or maybe even having an alt in camp - knows, that we have it hardest going by the game! No occ, no events, not even a complete home with available NPCs, no nice faction/civ picks with wonderfull focus boost, no correctly working rite (i have been bugging about this for months now), special Anti-Marauder-Guards in EACH city now, but still half-assed guards in our own camp .. and the list goes on and on. And still we try to keep the faction going - a lot of people (like Virg for instance) even left their friends and kami-being behind to try and change something for the game. Do you really want to make it even harder for us to interact and enjoy the game? Yeah Yeah, the rp is important (not to me so much, but ok, whatever makes homins happy, right?) .. but rp can change into whichever direction, if the person "writing" the story wants it to.

My conclusion .. You dont want me at your fair? Fine by me, I certainly dont care .. But maybe take into consideration that keeping people away is your loss too, not just the loss of those not being allowed to attend.

Just my two dappers, of course ...

Peace!

Sera :-)

---


________________________

Leader of Syndicate
________________________



Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.

#8 Report | Quote[fr] 

Cette question du RP est une vraie question, qui s'est posée à presque tout le monde.

Dans quelle mesure doit on être "strict" dans le rôle de son personnage ?
Si l'on est Kara, peut on offrir des moyens aux Kamis, ou aux Marau ?
Peut on leur permettre d'avoir des armes de très bonne qualité, ou les aider à monter leurs compétences, pour qu'ensuite, ils nous combattent avec ?

L'évidence est que le serveur français ne le permettait pas, ou seulement de façon "cachée", par des négociations avec les neutres qui pouvaient faire les intermédiaires.
Je trouvais cela très bien, et à mon goût.

Mais la fusion des serveur a fait changer les choses, et le RP maintenant ne s'applique que lors des moments RP". C'est comme ça, soit on reste comme avant, et globalement, on ne joue presque plus, par manque de participants, soit on s'adapte, et on change.

C'est ce que j'ai fait. Je n'en suis pas ravi, ni très content, mais cela me permet de jouer avec d'autres joueurs sympas, et de découvrir d'autres aspects du jeu, et aussi, ce qui est très important, de jouer avec les joueurs anglophones, germaniques, espagnols, russes, ... et de tester mon anglais très mauvais ...

Les "Français" doivent s'habituer aux autres, et arrêter de penser qu'ils sont les seuls à avoir raison, et peut être aussi les autres regarder ce qu'il y avait de positif à jouer de façon plus RP, dans toutes les phases du jeu.

Il n'y aura jamais de juste milieu, quoi qu'il en soit, et ce qui reste positif, c'est que tout le monde s'écoute.

#9 Report | Quote[en] 

+1 sera & elv

But think I'll give up myself like tama now publicly said it's French lore RP way or the highway. Not sure atm was bussy in RL past weeks. You'll find me ingame but mostly as a sad homin no idea how long you'll be able to find me any longer in this game. For me they killed all the fun out of it. Their way must be fun but I give up on defending my point of view for now.

---

Adaptation from "I have a dream" by "Martin Luther King"
I have a dream that one day this world will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all homin are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the hills of Fairhaven the sons of former homins left behind and the sons of former homins that were lucky enough to be rescued will be able to sit down together at a campfire of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the Matis, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my 64 little guildies will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin or the religion they follow but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

#10 Report | Quote[fr] 

bonjour,

la question du RP vs GP me tient à cœur.

j'ai fais le chois d'être le plus RP possible... (si non je jouerai encore à Meetin).
Mais comme je n'ai jamais aimé les intégristes:

Pom est neutre (avec toutes les limitation GP)
(couché le Troll...)

Cela permet à mon avatar d'avoir des contacts avec beaucoup de gens très différents voire très en marge des Nations ou des religions. (maraudeurs, et toutes factions).
Pour Pom le principal est la Famille, les amis et pour cela: la destruction des Kittins.
ces considérations amène ma trykette à côtoyer souvent un monde interlope...

Après, je pense que suivant les niveaux de réputation on peut envisager différentes approches pour un avatar.

Des maraud full -100 partout, des Kami ou Kara +100, sont des extrémiste pour moi, leur niveau de tolérance peut, selon moi, être comparé à celle de Torquémada .

alors que des Avatars ayant juste le niveau de réputation nécessaire peuvent avoir moins de certitudes...
et donc avoir l'esprit plus ouvert.... (....moins fermé) (couché! le Troll)

Mon propos (bien qu'un peu confus) est de dire que je ne crois pas qu'il soit facile de concilier le RP et le GP avec un avatar... à un moment ça finis toujours par coincer.
Mais je suppose que Torquémada a, en son temps, fait beaucoup de concessions afin d'éradiquer l'hérésie et les hérétiques...

voila c'était mon point de vue.
on peu en discuter, mais s'il vous plais, ne me jeter pas de Pierres. (ils ne vous ont rien fait....eux..) (....hi hi hi...)

le marionnettiste de Pom

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Ubhal (5 years ago)

---

Y syln Ubhal / Je suis Pomme
Y Teinh'Lir Zir Tor TRYKA!!! / Je combattrai toujours pour La Liberté!!!

#11 Report | Quote[en] 

Peatpom (atys)
j'ai fais le chois d'être le plus RP possible...
mais comme je n'ai jamais aimé les intégristes: Pom est neutre (avec toutes les limitation GP) (couché le Troll...)

But this was never a problem on Aris - we role played at role play events - and otherwise just played with each other regardless of faction - and we (as a game) do not say to new refugees - be careful how you choose your race and faction because this is really going to impact on what you get out of the game as some homins will treat you like a leper

Tomás de Torquemada - looks like a self centered soul - suspect you are not like him Peatpom :)

---

Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#12 Report | Quote[en] 

Elvanae (atys)
Maximus (atys)
Hey Elvanae, it's all a plot of the evil RPers.
They seek Atys domination...

I'm glad this post has caught the attention of more of the people who RP.

Thanks for the productive input.

Well, start by not putting people into groups/boxes/whatever.

Also, the event team is basically allowing everyone into everything so all the players can participate, even if those have nothing to do with what is happening. If something official does not allow all the players to have access to it, it just gets violently shut down and is completely condemned.

And you cannot blame players to enforce rules of their own.

Anyway, the game was articulated around groups/factions/countries, each one having his own identity. Why even bother to choose a group if it is not to care about its identity ? Let's just scrap that part out of the game since it's becoming kinda useless (or all for show ?)

#13 Report | Quote[en] 

Maximus (atys)

Well, start by not putting people into groups/boxes/whatever.

But that is the problem - role play by some homins does put people into boxes - or homins into straight jackets
Maximus (atys)
Also, the event team is basically allowing everyone into everything so all the players can participate, even if those have nothing to do with what is happening. If something official does not allow all the players to have access to it, it just gets violently shut down and is completely condemned.

There are a number of points recently which show this not to be true
Maximus (atys)
And you cannot blame players to enforce rules of their own.

I do not understand your point here
Maximus (atys)
Anyway, the game was articulated around groups/factions/countries, each one having his own identity. Why even bother to choose a group if it is not to care about its identity ? Let's just scrap that part out of the game since it's becoming kinda useless (or all for show ?)

What some are saying is that it is too strict - and we should not be told off for rezzing homins of a different allegiance - or for sharing and playing with homins of a different allegiance - and when I say "told off" I do mean abused/bullied

And it is not useless - if you think game will die without a strict role play all the time - I am thinking game will become very miserable with strict role play all the time

---

Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#14 Report | Quote[en] 

Maximus (atys)
Elvanae (atys)
Maximus (atys)
Hey Elvanae, it's all a plot of the evil RPers.
They seek Atys domination...

I'm glad this post has caught the attention of more of the people who RP.

Thanks for the productive input.

Well, start by not putting people into groups/boxes/whatever.

Also, the event team is basically allowing everyone into everything so all the players can participate, even if those have nothing to do with what is happening. If something official does not allow all the players to have access to it, it just gets violently shut down and is completely condemned.

And you cannot blame players to enforce rules of their own.

Anyway, the game was articulated around groups/factions/countries, each one having his own identity. Why even bother to choose a group if it is not to care about its identity ? Let's just scrap that part out of the game since it's becoming kinda useless (or all for show ?)

Well your initial post was pretty much sarcasm from what I understood of it. In addition, yes I am glad this thread is capturing the attention of a lot more people whether they PR or not or whether they RP only between the hours of 17 and 21.

Am I to understand correctly from your second post that you do indeed feel that the event team gets pressurised to include all players in official events to the extent where the players "violently shut down and completely condemn it" ?

I would probably disagree. I think the player base in Ryzom has shrunk but maybe thats because a lot of my previous guild members and friends no longer play. I think personally, you have to consider that we are so few that even one person who calls out will be heard clearly and yes it is a delicate position for the event team. I think its also important to realise that, for example, with regards to the Tryker Fair, I personally was not in attendance when the meeting decided not to allow Marauders to attend. It is not excluding me, but it is excluding Virg and I feel strongly that I should speak out against excluding people who feel that it is their right to attend such an event. He didn't suddenly just have it in his mind to cause such a fuss, his opinion that he has the right to attend the Fair comes from the event team opening the Fair up to everyone in Ari. In Ari it was not an RP event. So no, I am not blaming players, I was actually being bold enough to blame the event team etc for not considering that issues like this could arise post-merge and doing pretty much nothing about it.

Just to say, in terms of not blaming players, I am just not going to excuse certain behaviour such as the example I have given. I would also say that:
Tamarea
2. You may not hinder another player during his play.

Yes you can be held responsible for your gameplay.

Well, regarding your last point, I mean, would you even think to go so far as to say that as part of the Kami or Karavan you should not be able to enter particular cities? Indeed, the RP hatred between Matis and Fyros is undeniably strong, why should I as a Mati be allowed to freely roam the Desert lands and enter their cities? Well, I believe that it is the FTA which allows this free movement and the issue we have now is that the Marauders are not directly cited as a nation because some don't consider them to be a nation but instead an organisation of members from different nations. So why can't RPers and all game players take it upon themselves to rectify this directly on the FTA for example.

---

#15 Report | Quote[en] 

+1 yet again Elvanae :)

---

Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)
uiWebPrevious123456uiWebNext
 
Last visit Tue Jul 16 07:59:28 2019 UTC
P_:

powered by ryzom-api