IDEAS FOR RYZOM


Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun
13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Placio, Wirroy, Yper, Zendae
9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau
1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper
3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia
1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#97 [en] 

Thank you for understanding and respecting that I think unconventionally :)

To my mind, four factions may be too many for a small player base, but two feels artificially low so long as there are more than about half a dozen players. How about three? Before you answer, listen to my reasoning.

For reasons previously touched on, I can see justification for merging the Marauders and Rangers even though you would think they'd be polar opposites. While both have some opposing views, both also appreciate freedom enough to be willing to fight Kitin oppression if faced with a common enemy. For the moment, lets call this faction "Hominists" just for the sake of conversation.

Then you have those who feel it better to assimilate with whatever enemy comes in rather than fight them. Maybe it'll be Megacorp returning to get all the C23, maybe the Kitin King, maybe something else. Regardless, it'll be something that seeks to do some sort of harm to Atys and the homins that occupy it (except for those who submit to their new overlords of course; they are "benevolent" masters.)

Lastly, you have those Kami and Karavan who cling to the old ways so fervently that agreeing to a truce with those they used to consider mortal enemies is preferable to the other alternatives. I see this faction as being important since it would allow those players who don't want to join either of the new factions to retain their character's old beliefs in a lore-friendly way while simultaneously allowing those ready to accept a new paradigm two opposing choices.

And there you have three sides that all have reasons to be in conflict with each other over the fate to the rootball! They would still allow for some subdivisions; I don't expect the Hominists to be totally united, and there is bound to still be some strife between the Ma'Duk and Jena crowds, but those internal conflicts are mere squabbling over details compared to the fundamental differences between the three major camps.

Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#98 [en] 

Yes, I like the idea of merging the Kami and Kara factions as "traditionalists", but the preservation of the two cults, which can also mean potential for inner conflict. But also the Marauders and Rangers as two opposing "hoministic" views would be interesting. Let's call them "Rangerauders". But there will also be an inner conflict. And then there is the conflict between the humanists and the traditionalists. Religion against non-religion. Who will be able to assert himself? What consequences would that have for the historiography in Atys? I guess after some time the factions Kami and Karavan will fight for there religious ideas and get their conflict to peace and see the new conflict which comes with the Rangerauders which threatened their existence?

And in the end a new enemy brings fresh wind into the events. All united defeat the Kitins finally, but this brings only partial peace, because a new enemy of the Homins awakes.

Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#99 [en] 

Ok for once i want to post a not-so-constructive comment..
Sorry for that, but here it is :)
Still my question-mark is real here.


That very nice to read, and interesting but... i doubt it will change anything no?

People will still prefer to kill horncher's, or to dig choice materials, or to go wasteland to dig XL and Supreme.
Not taking part into any Homins conflicts, not taking part into the Lore evolution neither, they will still use the right teleportation system that they love, without reading the Lore or get an interest in it.

PvP won't improve at all, people will still spite on the word PvP, hate it, would not see the points to fight against each others because of "IRL" principle.

The mentality did change, or better say, a big part of the RP/PvP driven community did leave, so we deal with the rest now.

Rare are interested into faction development or play, nor Lore/Stories progression when it come to Homins conflicts.

People are happy when it come to doing fight against env, and digging for a useless goals (aka the simulation of the goo in void.. just a joke).
But when it come to Hominity conflicts, then no ones play.

This is the actual Ryzom.. (not saying its wrong or right here, just a fact).
Most of the nice picture you see on website promoting the game are from an Era of Ryzom where there was actual fight, and people was willed to do so, with pleasure even.

If you should replace actually the picture to reflect the truth, what would we get?
Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture?
Leveling on mobs picture?
2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?

Nothing that can push people to come in this niche game, instead of going to play a MMORPG.

We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King..

So do it will change anything ? I would really like you to prove me wrong really.. at least for the future of this game.

Otherwise nice story i like it :) and agree with the fact that we are not enough for 46 thousands factions.. at minima 2, maxima 3 would be good.

Last edited by Revvy (6 years ago)

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#100 [en] 

That's a fact, even if i play Marau because that's the way i want to play.. Marauder faction and Ranger faction is too much for the actual Ryzom ( and a pain for Dev etc ).

About the War between the Matis and Fyros, that was like, the BEST PvP event EVER, since, as Revvy said, that was an another Era and players were more PvP, so, that was a great fight with lot of Homins involved.

Ryzom as change, become a 3D Facebook or whatever social media you want it to be, where players are doing the same they would do on their life, gardering... hunting... etc.

Maybe i'm not right, but.... Not sure that was the way Nevrax ( Society who've dev Ryzom ) planned it will become...... this (they would probably cry, actually... :P )

But, i'm kinda off topic, so.. gonna be all.

* throw Unicorn power and disapear *

Last edited by Mithian (6 years ago)

#101 [de] 

Well, the game is older than its original life span decided by Nevrax.

#102 [en] 

Revvy
The mentality did change, or better say, a big part of the RP/PvP driven community did leave, so we deal with the rest now.

Rare are interested into faction development or play, nor Lore/Stories progression when it come to Homins conflicts.

People are happy when it come to doing fight against env, and digging for a useless goals (aka the simulation of the goo in void.. just a joke).
But when it come to Hominity conflicts, then no ones play.

This is the actual Ryzom.. (not saying its wrong or right here, just a fact).
Most of the nice picture you see on website promoting the game are from an Era of Ryzom where there was actual fight, and people was willed to do so, with pleasure even.

If you should replace actually the picture to reflect the truth, what would we get?
Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture?
Leveling on mobs picture?
2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?

Nothing that can push people to come in this niche game, instead of going to play a MMORPG.

We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King..

So do it will change anything ? I would really like you to prove me wrong really.. at least for the future of this game.

Otherwise nice story i like it :) and agree with the fact that we are not enough for 46 thousands factions.. at minima 2, maxima 3 would be good.

I understand your doubts, and I totally agree with you. Because many PVP players have gone (because of misdevelopments?), there remains a small player base that PVP would really practice in a role-specific scenario, but still too few to actually do it. Most people, like me, are happy with PVE because, as far as I'm concerned, the opponents who really run PVP are much more levelled and experienced than I am. So I think that's a deterrent for now.

As far as I'm concerned, they weren't pictures of "Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture? Leveling on mobs picture? 2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?" but that rather: We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King....
I've never experienced anything like it and I can't understand it either. A few invasions on Yrkanis or Pyr, that's it.

What I personally don't like about PVP is when the opponents ignore each other, insult each other or spread bad rumors etc.. That's something I can't stand to die for. That's also one reason why I retired there.

Ok back to the actual topic.
1) Would it be good to know how many in principle would be willing to do more PVP and in what way. There would be a survey very helpful
2) A reduction of fractions, by whatever means, is URGENTly necessary due to the player base. In order to grow again, one should start small again.
3) More focus on bugfixes and new content. (Not the Gubani wheel, which is really nice, but doesn't really captivate a new player, but is more of a pastime for long-term players)
4) The lore should not only be text, but also be filmed with exciting sequences.
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
6) Small videos are nice. Many young players watch games on Youtube. When I search for Ryzom and filter by upload date and limited to this year, it comes out: Ryzom Youtube Search. Also live stream LetsPlays e.g. would also do it, what could lure new players.
7) As I found out, players aren't really interested, or just lazy or don't have enough time on platforms to promote Ryzom, which is also a reason why Ryzom doesn't really reach everyone who is interested. Or simply, players are miserably organized on the subject.

Ok, these are the points I can come up with for your contribution. You don't have to and shouldn't leave everything to the Ryzom team, but there should also be a player team that organizes such things. But you have to do it ;-) Selfish action is really wrong at the place, I say that especially to myself, because everyone is it in his own way.
Finally, I think that a long-term player should take on the role of organizing players. I am definitely there when tasks are structurally distributed among players. This organizer should preferably not be involved in the Ryzom team.

Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#103 [en] 

Heernis
I've never experienced anything like it and I can't understand it either. A few invasions on Yrkanis or Pyr, that's it.
Same here. Either it happened pre-Merge, or it was all on the opposite side of the clock from when any American with a day job could see it.
Heernis
1) Would it be good to know how many in principle would be willing to do more PVP and in what way. There would be a survey very helpful
Agreed, but I don't feel like being the one to set it up :p
Heernis
4) The lore should not only be text, but also be filmed with exciting sequences.
Quite true! My only reservation there is that animation takes dev-hours, which are a finite resource that might be better allocated elsewhere... unless we get more volunteers from The Forge stepping up.
Heernis
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
I'm sure that there are folks from The Forge who would be willing to guide you.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#104 [en] 

Heernis
Ok back to the actual topic.
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
7) As I found out, players aren't really interested, or just lazy or don't have enough time on platforms to promote Ryzom, which is also a reason why Ryzom doesn't really reach everyone who is interested. Or simply, players are miserably organized on the subject.

Ok, these are the points I can come up with for your contribution. You don't have to and shouldn't leave everything to the Ryzom team, but there should also be a player team that organizes such things. But you have to do it ;-) Selfish action is really wrong at the place, I say that especially to myself, because everyone is it in his own way.
Finally, I think that a long-term player should take on the role of organizing players. I am definitely there when tasks are structurally distributed among players. This organizer should preferably not be involved in the Ryzom team.

Ryzom Team can be joined by anyone so why should it not be Ryzom Team? Also for 5) you best tell Tamarea on Rocket.Chat or write an email to tamarea@ryzom.com that you would be interested in lore.

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#105 [en] 

I didn't bother to read the entire thread, I got there was something about older version of fame calculation and some "new enemy". Somehow it should bring back the interest in tagged PvP in particular and even PvP in general. No, it won't.

Let me explain you by what factors any PvP-community is driven (Ryzom being no exception).

1) Achievement - and by this term I mean not silly titles or checkmarks in Achievement list, I mean the feeling that you have reached something, that you and your team / guild / alliance have changed the world around.

2) Rewards - be it loot from enemies or their property, or PvP points, badges, whatever. The stuff you get if you win.

3) PvP mechanics and PvP itself as a process - interesting mechanics with a lot of variety and theorycrafting, engaging activity in which one have to think and act fast, have to know the game, with lots of things to choose from, fitting different playstyles - that's what keep players interested and makes them logging in game.


Now, in Ryzom, there is:

- no achievements to speak of. Win 100 fights or lose 100 fights, your faction neither gain nor lose anything. Your actions in PvP don't matter, end of story.

- no rewards to speak of. Rewards obtained with PvP points are scarce and aren't that good, the only thing that is useful is the skirt and crystals for Maras.

- mechanics and PvP process are so-so. There is strong emphasis on quality of gear and random numbers. The variety is low.

Consider all of this and you won't be surprised why PvP community in Ryzom is a small bunch and why PvP players don't stick around for long, when there are so many other games that have to offer much more to them.

So, when there is a new idea about a "PvP revamp" of any sort, I measure it against three main points I have mentioned above. If the idea doesn't help or improve any of them, I consider it a waste of developer's time.

Edited 10 times | Last edited by Kimmerin (6 years ago)

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"People let the same problem make them miserable for years when they could just say "So what". That's one of my favorite things to say. "So what". - Andy Warhol.

#106 [en] 

Kimmerin
I didn't bother to read the entire thread, I got there was something about older version of fame calculation and some "new enemy". Somehow it should bring back the interest in tagged PvP in particular and even PvP in general. No, it won't.

Let me explain you by what factors any PvP-community is driven (Ryzom being no exception).

1) Achievement - and by this term I mean not silly titles or checkmarks in Achievement list, I mean the feeling that you have reached something, that you and your team / guild / alliance have changed the world around.

2) Rewards - be it loot from enemies or their property, or PvP points, badges, whatever. The stuff you get if you win.

3) PvP mechanics and PvP itself as a process - interesting mechanics with a lot of variety and theorycrafting, engaging activity in which one have to think and act fast, have to know the game, with lots of things to choose from, fitting different playstyles - that's what keep players interested and makes them logging in game.


Now, in Ryzom, there is:

- no achievements to speak of. Win 100 fights or lose 100 fights, your faction neither gain nor lose anything. Your actions in PvP don't matter, end of story.

- no rewards to speak of. Rewards obtained with PvP points are scarce and aren't that good, the only thing that is useful is the skirt and crystals for Maras.

- mechanics and PvP process are so-so. There is strong emphasis on quality of gear and random numbers. The variety is low.

Consider all of this and you won't be surprised why PvP community in Ryzom is a small bunch and why PvP players don't stick around for long, when there are so many other games that have to offer much more to them.

So, when there is a new idea about a "PvP revamp" of any sort, I measure it against three main points I have mentioned above. If the idea doesn't help or improve any of them, I consider it a waste of developer's time.

Good point and i fully agree with you. I quote it on the main topic. Thanks.

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#107 [en] 

Siela
Heernis
Ok back to the actual topic.
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
7) As I found out, players aren't really interested, or just lazy or don't have enough time on platforms to promote Ryzom, which is also a reason why Ryzom doesn't really reach everyone who is interested. Or simply, players are miserably organized on the subject.

Ok, these are the points I can come up with for your contribution. You don't have to and shouldn't leave everything to the Ryzom team, but there should also be a player team that organizes such things. But you have to do it ;-) Selfish action is really wrong at the place, I say that especially to myself, because everyone is it in his own way.
Finally, I think that a long-term player should take on the role of organizing players. I am definitely there when tasks are structurally distributed among players. This organizer should preferably not be involved in the Ryzom team.

Ryzom Team can be joined by anyone so why should it not be Ryzom Team? Also for 5) you best tell Tamarea on Rocket.Chat or write an email to tamarea@ryzom.com that you would be interested in lore.

This should only be a proposal and not an instruction. It's more based on the fact that I've never worked in the Ryzom team and that it's rather intransparent to me, but not completely. Good steps have been taken to counteract this objectively and emotionally. For example through the new magazine, which I very much welcome. My experience so far is that contacting the Ryzom team via e-mail is rather bad, for whatever reason. I'll try Rocketchat soon.

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#108 [en] 

@Kimmerin - While you're not wrong about your three points, I feel that two of them are a matter of perspective and wish to offer counterpoints.

1) Not all PvPers are out to change the world; they're more concerned with personal achievement. Effecting any meaningful change in the world through PvP requires enough teamwork to dilute any individual's contribution enough to diminish the sense of achievement even if the rewards are greater. In other words, winning a 2v2 brings many folks more sense of achievement than being on of dozens/hundreds of homins that wrest control of an outpost from a rival.

2) PvP is also about adapting and preparation. Even among multi-masters with all q250 Sup gear, those who plan ahead and react to changes better and faster have an advantage. My take is that any perceived lack of variety is largely due to the small number of participants.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#109 [en] 

Gidget
2) PvP is also about adapting and preparation. Even among multi-masters with all q250 Sup gear, those who plan ahead and react to changes better and faster have an advantage. My take is that any perceived lack of variety is largely due to the small number of participants.

Agree with the whole comment btw, also the problem is that you need 2 to 4 master's at the very least to be able to go into PvP...
Leveling is painfull etc, its not a MOBA where you can just go into it and have fun fightning, then its done, all ggs and basta see you next time.
Its more complex and require tons of personal time to invest in it.

That also why there not much PvP i think, had lot of example of players just leaving the game before, or because the grind was too heavy :)

Got a newbie once, she did her first master pike 250; asked me: it is the same for everything?

.. what do you want i answer to this? ^^ yes it is.. and yes you need this and that to PvP..

No points she did leave the game :)

Last edited by Revvy (6 years ago)

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#110 [en] 

Revvy
Leveling is painfull etc, its not a MOBA where you can just go into it and have fun fightning, then its done, all ggs and basta see you next time.
Its more complex and require tons of personal time to invest in it.

That also why there not much PvP i think, had lot of example of players just leaving the game before, or because the grind was too heavy :)

Got a newbie once, she did her first master pike 250; asked me: it is the same for everything?

.. what do you want i answer to this? ^^ yes it is.. and yes you need this and that to PvP..

No points she did leave the game :)

I dont agree with the point "and yes you need this and that to PvP.." thats really not true. It matters only, if you want to have chance against an highlevel player. If both are the nearly the same level, you can do PVP equally. The rootproblem is, that here are more Multimaster PVP-Players over years and noobs have to grind fast to have a chance against them.

But i fully agree that the preparation process is complex in Ryzom and you have to invest much time. It takes months till you understand how to PVPing professional and how to get and craft good gears. Without a team it is a pain or you are a very patient person... But this is also the thing way i play this game. You have soo many possibilities and a MMOPRG shouldnt be like a Offline-RPG, where everything everytime the same xD

I guess the Ryzom is not made for fast grinding and Fast-EXP-Junkies, but more for Roleplay. But since Roleplay is nearly dead, so i think, the everyday grinding for noobs is a pain and no fun.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#111 [en] 

The grind is not a PvP-specific issue. Even many PvE-only players quit well before they get to even their first master. Whether one does PvE, PvP, or both, Ryzom is not a game for the impatient. However, there are those who see the grind as making masters more of an accomplishment than those who master everything in a month or less.

Still, there is a bit of a steep entrance requirement regardless of level. Even if we had a Silan Fight Club with no toons with skills over 30 and no gear better than Fine q45, a decent PvPer would have to know jewels, the relative strengths/weaknesses of various weapons, and how to balance protection against malus. There is a lot more effort required than just grinding enough levels to be competitive with those of us who have played long enough to get 6-60 masters; it just doesn't seem that way since most of us learned that stuff forever ago.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

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