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(if you vote other please offer your "other" option for us to consider)

ok since the last "fix" of the NH system, now a teleport is required to ware down the system, based on various test reports ware per tp is between 4 and 6 products per TP.

A new or low level player trying to help NH doesn't yet have the fame for free travel (and the "fix" made changing your mind useless and null) thus a low fame player trying to turn in and raise fame is stuck spending dappers they may or may not have to spare.

let's look at the numbers:
remember each NH tp costs anyone below +45 fame with that civilization 3,000 dappers.
if someone turns in a full load at 2999/3000 that puts the system at 3035/3000.
on the low side that's 9 tp's (4x9=36) and that's 27,000 dappers in expense.
on the high side that's 6 tp's (6x6=36) and that's 18,000 dappers in expense.
for someone with so low fame that they won't get paid for helping NH with anything but fame, that's an insane cost simply to turn in to NH. and for those that are at less then 45 fame it's still a large amount of what they will make from NH in either case (at 50 fame it would be free but if there was a cost would be 10% of the NH pay for that fame level)

given the long wait for a tp with NH (roughly 30 seconds, double the time of a normal tp) and the time it takes to click the proper menu's a high fame player isn't likely to spend that time waring out NH for a fresh noob trying to gain fame for missions in a land or do a rite, or some other reason (trying to keep this short).

so i propose a few options for the community at large to vote on anonymously:

1) change the "fix" to allow ware when choosing "i changed my mind, i do not want to go anywhere" again (simply undo the last change to NH, we know that works and high fame players will do this to ware the system down for others, you are charged as soon as you choose "yes, transport me")
2) change the level of ware to 18, so that a low fame player can afford to spend 6,000 to turn in a full load
3) if you choose the other option, please offer your "other" option to allow others to consider it as well as mine.

let's face it, NH is only viable and useful to most players in desert and lakes; desert because the cities are in different regions and it can be hard for low level toons to trek around safely; lakes because swimming is dreadfully slow compared to NH (even with the 30 second wait for NH it's faster then swimming). While NH wasn't ment to be a source of income, due to the economy change at merger, a young new toon can't make enough dappers to live on selling mat's from looting/digging (merchants pay almost nothing, and high level players have no need for low level grind mats).

i'm sure option one is easy, they just have to undo what they did. option two is likely even simpler, just change a single digit to a double digit. (i'm sure it would take no more then 4 keystrokes to change x to xx, with a few clicks to open the script, and a couple more clicks to save the changes) and this would likely be the last step needed to make NH new player friendly as well as for old players too. (it doesn't have to be a public notice about the change if the ware is increased, some of us love to test and discover things.)

just my two dappers publicly about a topic that's been spoken of in many chats, from uni to faction/civ to privet (like cookies for example).

talkirc, public speaker for players of ryzom (one of many titles given to me by cookies)

A new character can survive for a few days doing corporal missions. A full run, killing all bandits available at all 3 corporals in your capital, will yield good fame and actually make you some decent dappers. Not to mention you can take a couple of plant or mob kill missions for a maximum of 15 at a time.

Really, I fail to see why we must rework an entire system just for the needs of a very small minority ..

I would vote for NH not paying any dappers at all, just fame and faction points.

And lower the fame and faction points so it's like only 10% of what it's giving now!

yet again wasted my time i guess.

first off, i'm sorry my friends but as mara NH isn't all that useful to you without an alt, which other mara have just for NH, too bad they won't speak up because they want to appear "hardcore".

MJ, maybe they are doing corporal missions in THEIR capital, but also trying to get that negative starter fame with two of the other races up in the process, for those there are precious few options without days of grinding fame with a single npc.

don't worry about it, clearly i misjudged things when some of the people i would have expected to still agree with me suddenly don't. at best i expected my 18 changed in the numbers given past conversations, but clearly i've been reading different chats on the topic.

talk

Not against you talk but i'm just not a fan of new horizons.

It's something they introduced after merger and in my book it's just an unfair advantage.
First of there is the way to easy dapper, fame and money ppl that aren't mara can get from them > that's just over powered and not fair
Then there is the added benefit for ppl to have an extra tp system where mara can't really make use of (yes we can but not worth it)
Then there is the desert where ppl don't even need a trek anymore wich is sad and stupid since a lvl 1 newbie can just take new horizons to high lvl zones.

I think new horizons was implemented without thinking (like always in ryzom) and really messing with the mara (and a little bit the rangers since they are capped) while dishing out loads and loads of goodies to the ppl that join a nation.
NH should in my book be removed (since I think it's an dev introduced cheating system to drive mara and rangers from the game), or atleast be totally overhoaled and made equal to everyone

ps. yes I used faul language in there somewhere so report me then atleast one csr will read it

As Suboxide says, it is not you but the idea we are against. Just because I cannot use it does not mean I cannot have a say. NH makes the game too easy! I really hope when we do get an occ that it is much harder than butcher, pays no dappers, nerfs fame a little and gives us some faction points.

Fix NH so people can just hand in 36 items a day - BUT stop it paying dappers, and nerf the amount of faction points and fame it gets: half would be good. And as soon as Mara get a way to tp to Almati, remove NH completely and provide another way of handing occs in for fps and fame.

Some homins will say that NH is not supposed to be a dapper farm, my response is that in the past occupations used to pay homins directly for gathering the mission materials, so one way or another we should be reasonably paid for running around in circles :P

So I would be in favor of making donating easier, cheaper or faster (has already been improved dramatically from the submit one at a time) or switching back to payments for gathering occ mats.

well, there was a forge member working on a NH style system of payments and rewards that is EXCLUSIVE to the mara community, not sure why it's not yet be introduced. also mara can buy with dappers gen mat's, no points needed.

as for the thing about the reward for choosing a civ alignment, there are some restrictions when you align (some rites are out of reach because fame is limited with some races) but i agree, that the alignment thing shouldn't be the only way to get a good payday, if you both recall i once requested that the max payouts be lowered to the neutral alignment caps of 50, and the scale started at 0 (eruv also had a similar idea) so someone with 0 fame would get at least some faction points and dappers as well as fame from a turn in. (and to be honest i think the payout system should start at -20 because of the fact that a new to ML toon has at least one fame that starts at that mark. and it's not that players fault that their race is hated by the powers that be (ig gov powers))

i also opted for a new npc all together that would pay ANYONE regardless of fame x dappers and x points per occ product, in fact i think i might try to just create that npc with the forge group, if people will support the idea they might just use it, and i'm not into that cloak and dagger development, i like public because it shows everyone i'm willing to go the extra mile for all of ryzom.*

while i don't understand how you can be upset with us non-crafters having a decent source of income, for those mara that craft there's a mission that can be done every 3 or 4 hours that pays 480k, NH caps out at 360k and can only be done once every 23 hours. faction points, what's useful there? crystals, unless your a crystal using leveler, which i find silly for anything but maybe hand to hand, you only need so many stacks before you have a good stockpile. (i also know many mara that have f2p alt's for occ's just to do NH for dappers and to get crystals to sell for more dappers). there isn't all that much to get, gen mat's? crappy stats that choice dug mats can beat. the picks, not special enough in my book to waste points on (might be if maybe you could enchant them with a spell, maybe). cat's? sure if your f2p they can be useful, but sooner or later you hit the level cap in everything and they're useless, and as a subbed player they're useless from the start (and even if you have f2p alt's sooner or later they will hit the cap and render those pointless again)

anyway, as you can see i have put some thought into this, and while you as mara don't like NH for your reasons, it is useful to many people for many reasons, it just needs a tweak to be more new player friendly in terms of letting them get a start in things.

talk

*i'll make a new forum post on the new occ turn in npc idea, you've given me a reason to consider another development idea for the community at large (regardless of faction, and mostly because the new econ since merger sucks unless your a crafter)

As a newbie, you're going to spend a while in your "home country" anyway, no rush to trek out. All more reason to keep doing the corporals, plus you learn about the geography of the region, etc.

Once you do have fame over 45, you can make about 108k dappers per day, from NH alone. Surely then you can spend a few dappers to get transported around, in a different continent where your fame isn't good enough? I mean, 9 transports (your worst case scenario) is 27k.

If memory serves, your worst default fame is -20. Giving one full set of products bumps you by about 17 points to -3, and then you only need a few more products the next day to get to 0. At which point you can start corporals :)

Personally I wouldn't mind capping the daily limit to 24 instead of 36, this way making it harder to fill up the transporters.

lowering daily cap would not reduce the supplies in NH, it would just encourage homins to make more alts to donate... :(

I agree that dappers should not be given at all with the NH. It's hugely exploited imo. and because it is so exploited those people are the ones in fact that are causing others who need the faction points to make several trips. Besides, the fact that it does pay as well as it does, you make back any dappers you spent on the trips and then some. I see no need to change it unless dappers are removed entirely... and also agree fame should not be as much either! There is nothing wrong with a little hard work people... it builds character! <3

Does it really matter? Leave it as it is

can't hurt to dream....

maybe one day i'll be a big crafter and make the big dappers doing craft missions, till then, i'm stuck with more limited incomes like NH (360k a day max limit, vs a single craft mission that pays 480k and can be done every few hours)

anyway, i can wish for 10 or 18 ware on the system forever, it'll never happen, just a public dream i had...

talk

Craft missions suck.  Just stick glitter and feathers on amps and sell them to dumb males, simples XP