ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

I have two problems with the transporters:

- since the system has been changed to accept up to 36 products at once, the transporters are almost always full of products.

- since the bug with fake transportation has been fixed, it takes a lot more time to lower the stock a transporter has.

Now, this is acceptable for an older player with several crafting skills. S/he could simply turn to overseers for money, and in fact those look more fun than running around collecting water or map fragments. Moreso, if said player is a nation member they will have a fame well over 45, and therefore can lower NH's stock for free (by transporting).

In stark contrast, a new player depends on this income MUCH more, uses the faction points with more hunger (cats!), and is less financially stable in order to do repeat transportation (costs 3k per trip).

So, I suggest a few modifications that should shift the target audience:

- Lower the personal daily cap from 36 to 24 or to 18. This makes a person with 100 fame gain less money, and therefore encourages them to turn to crafting missions.

- Raise the global cap from 3000 to 3500. Alternatively, increase the amount of products consumed per transport (Bittty suggested this is 5, maybe make it 10).

- Slightly raise the amount of money made at lower fames.

This should allow lower players to support themselves, while making it unappealing as a primary source of income at higher levels. I know I couldn't sustain tp'ing around on 180000 dappers per day, for example :)

I agree with something I believe Bitty has said in an earlier thread: Why the NH transporters are implemented in a way that they can be used to make such amounts of money is beyond me.

When they were introduced after the server merge it was to allow players - regardless of alignment - to quickly port from the capitals into the smaller towns. Simply because the individual language communities (only the three major ones: en,fr,de) got one of the smaller towns assigned respectively.

Iirc, at their start they often were pretty empty because their transportation system was heavily used but only few occupations products were delivered to them to keep them motivated. Of course it quickly became apparent that they provided dappers and faction points as a second benefit for product delivery, so that quickly became the focus of their use.

Imho, they should not pay out any dappers. Doesn't make sense to me at all. Originally, after the merge dappers were sparse, complaints by players abundant and thus it was understandable it wasintroduced that way. But now Dappers are as abundant as before the merge, and there's no story in why NH should provide three benefits when - storytelling wise - their existence is based on providing transportation to us.

As an aside, Mjollren your argument that new players have to pay for the transport is wrong, imho. It does not take long to reach a good enough fame to get that service for free. Players don't have to be citizens. Neutral players can have up to 50 fame with all four nations.

There are two solutions: One is to team up more, the second is patience and modesty.

Firstly, even if crafting is the only high income on the rootball, newbies can team up with someone more experienced (lvl ~100 in crafting is sufficient). The higher level can craft items for the newbies' missions. Crafters and diggers always can use a helping hand.

Secondly, I say patience and modesty because I never understand why a newbie player needs 36k dapper income a day (was it 1k or 10k dapper per occupation product delivery?). What do new players do with all that money?? A mount costs <10k, a pick is under 10k, the crafting tools are cheap for any crafter anyway. So the big items are the packers and the appartement - but what do you need those for when your levels are below 100??

We should not make the game easier just to provide everything to all players in a short and quick way. Ryzom is a hard game (unless you use spoilers all the time) and imho that is one of the reasons why we have a rather mature community.

I apologize for the rant. To summarize:

Remove the dapper rewards from NH, keep the faction points and the transport mechanics as is.

De mon temps... les récoltes de produits de métiers étaient payées.. peut être trop.. maintenant tu n'es payé que si tu les donnes au NH et uniquement les métiers simples.

Avec le recul, on s'aperçoit que ces métiers, délaissés autrefois par la plus grande partie des joueurs, connaissent un engouement de masse.

Ce n'est pas un point négatif, une partie du jeu qui est utilisée par tous ou presque maintenant mais il y a toujours un revers..

Qui fait encore les missions des caporaux de pays pour monter ses réputations de pays? Ce sont pourtant des missions faciles qui rapportent un peu de dappers et surtout apprennent à se bouger, à connaitre la faune et à découvrir une région.

Le souci des gens , c'est qu'ils veulent tout, tout de suite. Pas seulement les dappers, mais aussi les levels, les connaissances... Pas de recherches, pas de temps pour faire les choses..

Ce n'est pas une critique, juste un constat.. Moi même,je prends le chemin le plus facile si je peux, quand il y en a un ^^

Je soulèverais un dernier point, les missions craft dappers sont payés en fonction du nombre de matières récoltées, + ou -,entre 1000 et 1300 la matière au level 250. Arrêtez de focaliser sur la mission à 500k.. il faut piocher + et attendre pas mal de temps que cette mission repop.. faire plusieurs fois, une mission plus petite (oui,je sais qui rapporte moins) vous donnera au final, la même somme pour le même temps passé.

Allez une petite astuce, les plus rapides, les mieux payées, souvent, à la matière utilisée, et qui rapportent le plus de points de réputations..ce sont les missions bijoux.( et il y en a partout, dans les tribus, dans les villes, des pnjs qui se promènent.. et à tous les niveaux)

Et si vous utilisez les missions moindres mais disponibles plus rapidement ,je vous assure qu'on peut se faire des millions sans chasser ni piocher.. cherchez un peu, utilisez le bon sens et ne focalisez plus sur ce que vous ne pouvez faire..

Et surtout, amusez vous! :)

Bon, moi, je préfère les missions à 400 K ^^

En réalité, le problème aujourd'hui, c'est qu'il y a peut être trop d'entraide dans Ryzom ?

If you can't give any product because the system is always full, then raising fame the corporal way takes quite a while.

Oh and I also forgot, NH is (or should be) a good way to come back from negative fame; otherwise when you're under zero you only have one poor option (one single mission-based npc in the capital). If going down in fame is as easy as right clicking the magistrate in the city, I believe going up could be easy too. Not to mention newcomers whose default fame is -10 and -20 respectively with two nations.

Try to start a new character and see how bad you're having it with money. Levels go by very fast, and you'll always need new equipment - jewels, LA, HA, amps, weapons, the list goes on and on. Mounts get lost all the damn time due to player death. Buying a q250 pick to CP for someone else (almost everyone needing a CPer is a master) sets you back by 16 and up to 20 thousand dappers. A world trek alone sets you back by tens of thousands.

Anyway... I don't believe in the Mother Theresa approach, that "pain is good for you" ;) Unless the subtle point is to leave in game only those good at developing a Stockholm Syndrome. The others simply quit when the game gets too difficult.

good point about negitive fame MJ, what if a mara want's to come back, from -100, how can they do that when there's no NPC willing to talk to them? yet another reason mara is a one-way change (almost, i know it can be done, but it's anything but easy in any way.)

would also be nice if there was a way to get into the + with tribes that wasn't an insane process.

anyway as for the always full issue, i'll go with the same options i've voiced previously. revert to the old way of ware (where changing your mind still wares the system down, they do after all already charge you 3k the second you choose the transport option on the first menu bubble, up the full limit to 30,000 from 3,000, so that nice players like me can ware it down enough for the player base to turn in for a few days without the pointless TP only to turn in. fix the script to always be in need, maybe remove the "full" limit outright.

let's face it, NH may not have been intended to be a source of income, but due to the crappy new econ since merger if your not a crafter/digger it's the only good option in ryzom. so let's face facts, either a better option for getting dappers needs to be created (or the econ changed) or NH is the only serious income for a non digger/crafter.

it's also pretty shitty that one can get 100's of products in a day's time but only turn in 36, furthermore you can help 1 time in 23 hours, where there are missions that pay nearly 500k and can be done every 4 hours roughly, how about letting NH turn-in's be every 4 hours? at least that would put non-diggers and non-crafters in a similar rate of income. and to all those that go on about how much work is put into getting dig/craft to high levels, remember please that not everyone is into hours of digging and crafting to get those levels, and shouldn't be forced to. digging and crafting are pretty safe things to do, there's little danger if your careful. i'm just so sick of the huge gap between the income of a non-digger/crafter and a hunter/mage. (please don't comment about "getting a high level crafter to do the crafting for you, that's just a sad excuse that tells people to depend on others for something they should have a fair option to do on their own, after all i don't see that digger/crafter asking a hunter/mage to help them.

shew, i'll stop now before this becomes a massive novel. (ps faction points are not as useful as some would like to claim, a person can only use so many crystals a day, cat's are useless for anyone with a sub, and the picks are fancy with a little bonus but not so special that they are a must have, gen mat's have super bad stats, so there's nothing really good to spend the points on other then crystals, and after i got about 30 stacks i had nothing to spend points on.

ok now i'll really stop.

*soupire* A quand les NH tribus?

Et si Jena pouvait aussi développer son business en donnant des points de faction ..

ah et pis aussi un panier du vieux pour Noël siouplé , un pâté de yubo et du timari faisandé aux bourgeons de slavenis, sans oublier le vin de pistils de shooki et les petits gâteaux secs... * liste non exhaustive *

Non mais.. le seul à avoir des problèmes de dappers, il met 10 min à trouver 3 millions en uni ^^ Le NH est plein? Prenez le et profitez en pour aller faire autre chose.

Trop de produits de métier dans votre sac et le NH n'en veut plus? Et pourquoi vous en avez fait autant?

Pas assez de points de fame de nations? Une équipe de joyeux lurons et tournée de bandits pour tous, les caporaux vous remercieront!

Pas assez de dappers? Ah ben non, ça, ce n'est pas vraiment un problème.. vous avez fait toutes les missions de silan bien sûr et vous avez déjà 150 000 dappers dans votre sac pour débuter..

* a oublié de mettre des smileys partout, mais je vous aime quand même, surtout les ronchons *

i've often wondered about why there are points for kami and karavan, yet no way to earn any, nor anything to spend them on.

sure we're "whiners" but then again, we're not sporting that fancy "spirt of atys" title. options are all i'm asking for, sure it sounds like a whine, it is.

i whine because i have stacks of products in my bag, when i get 18*6 (108) products a day, and can only give 36, i feel it's valid to whine, not to mention that's just doing one occ a day, when you can do as many as 3 occ's at a time (taking 108*3 {324}) so i can get a total of 324 a day but only give 36, that's like 12% of the total i can get in a day.

the numbers don't lie, and touring the camps can be done once every 8 hours, net's you about 5600 to 6000 faction points (at max aligned fame of 100) and get you a sad 60,000 dapper total, requres a mount and feed, mount you buy once if it doesn't die, but the feed is 15,000 to 20,000 for a single run to all camps, knocking down the 60k you make to 40/45k. given that it's an 8 hour cool down this isn't a valid replacement to the insane amount of dappers a crafter can make.

bottom line is once again that the only way to really earn dappers is to be a uber crafter / digger, but not everyone want's to do those things. i'm asking why the hell can't there be a reasonable alternative to the crafting and digging? NH is a valid alternative but is very limited when compared to the dig/craft route.

while ryzom does offer the choice of doing things, they basically tell the hunter/mage that poverty is the only way to live.

we need options that don't send the message that dig and craft are the most importaint skills, useful yes, but not everyone want's to dig and/or craft.

and i'll be sure to start begging in uni too, that's really the way to riches as well, beg.

talk

108 produits par jour :D tranquille pour la semaine! pourquoi en refaire 108 dès le lendemain?
Ce n'est pas parce que j'ai accès à toutes les missions que je dois toutes les prendre..
Y a quelque chose qui m'échappe..

Esprit d'atys, ça ne se trouve pas dans les barils de lessive. Il a fallu aller le chercher.. Je ne dis pas que tout le monde doit le faire , non plus. Chacun joue comme il veut.

Maintenant, 150k reproductible toutes les heures sans forer ni chasser, c'est quand même mieux que 500k avec sa pioche et attendre 4H.. surtout si on ne veut pas passer des mois à monter son craft et son forage auparavant..
Je ne comprends pas .. Mais je suis fyrette aussi, ça ne doit pas aider XD

J'arrête de radoter :)

Perhaps if the quantities consumed upon teleports were increased, normal usage of the NH teleporter might be enough to allow more products to be handed in. Then they won't be crammed full as much of the time.

nerwane, i respect the he** out of the work you put in to get that title, i may 30 years from now also have it.

i just wish there was more ways for those that don't craft to earn decent dappers. before the merger i never had to craft to keep a big pile of dappers, i didn't have to do more then visit a merchant and sell my loot DIRECTLY to the merchant. now, your lucky if you get 50 dappers for a single mat from a mob that kills you (and destroys the gear you use little by little)

NH is a decent way to make some limited income, but it's a single daily use item and stands alone as a source of higher income for the non-digger/crafter.

anywho we all have our thoughts and ideas :)