ИДЕЯ ДЛЯ РИЗОМА

Je pense que tout le monde est d'accord pour dire que la plaie, ce sont les campeurs, pas ceux qui cherchent les rois.

Et je pense aussi qu'il serait bien que les CSR proposent des solutions pour mettre fin à cette pratique qui irrite tous les joueurs parce que sinon, ce sont TOUJOURS les mêmes discussions stériles sur le sexe des anges.

le problème est peut-être aussi que ça n'irrite pas tout les joueurs justement, seulement une certaine catégorie, et ceux que ça ne dérange pas seront prompt a crier au scandale a coup de ''mais laissez nous jouer comme on veut'' ou ''mare de ces joueurs qui veulent nous imposer leur façon de jouer''

Une solution consisterait peut être à différer
le pop des rois d'une dizaine de minutes si un
pj est présent dans un rayon de 300 m autour
du spot. Cela rendrait le camping contre-productif
sans pénaliser les joueurs.

Osquallo makes a good point on the idea of reducing the mat's dropped and the time between respawn, there's on part that should be considered: most of the campers are in the same few guilds, thus they don't have to share mat's with anyone but themselves.

while i did offer more then one option to combat campers there is still only ONE that would make camping a totally useless endeavor: the merchant. (see below)

1) for those that camp this is a much better solution then camping.
2) for those that are seeking exactly one type of mat from one boss, which leads to long term camping, they can just buy the 10 mat's they need (at 100,000 dappers for each mat that's 1,000,000 dappers) which would remove the need to camp a single boss for months to obtain the mats for that "perfect recipe"
3) camping is a lazy way of getting the mat's you desire, so is going to a merchant to buy them.

other additions to the merchant idea:

1) the mat's that you would buy at the merchant don't have to be Q270, given that the highest we can craft is 250, merchant mat's could be of Q250 and still be the "same"
2) make the merchant mat's an item that can't be traded, so the person that is buying them would also have to be the crafter.
3) ryzom lacks GOOD things to spend dappers on, this would be a huge solution to finding a dapper sink that would be used often.
4) the idea that these mat's should be "exclusive" is the biggest part of the problem with camping. the more exclusive you make something the more reasons a player or group of players will use ANY means to get them, eg. camping is looked at like cheating, and they're cheating because of the "exclusive" nature of items or mats. (it's possible that some camp only to prevent anyone else from getting the "exclusive" stuff, not because of a genuine need)

someone spoke of what good all that awesome gear is if you don't PVP... i don't do much pvp outside of OP's and SN's, but that doesn't mean that i don't want the best gear i can get for PvE. (ryzom isn't a PVP only game) kinchers, jugulas, and vorax, are just as dangerous as anything else i might find on atys.

there's a very simple logic to my merchant solution, and like it or not. i've yet to see a valid reason that this idea would be bad for the game as a whole. (i'm still waiting for even a slightly good reason)

talk

Yes, buying king loot from merchants would make camping useless- but it would also make most of the game useless too...

one word question: HOW?

i stopped hunting actively because of the camping issues and many others have as well, so how does a solution that removes the need of campers make the rest of the game useless? (i'd once again enjoy taking part in a portion of the game that's rendered useless by campers. that to me seams like it would do just the reverse of your statement placio)

@Talk
Because they are unique materials that should be earned by hardwork. Your suggestion to make them available for sale takes any sense of acheivement out of the process. Essentially you would punish the people who actually do want to hunt, by cheapening the worth of this loot.
And for me and others a large part of this game and the special mobs/items in it is the effort to get them. How great are those mat or items made with them if you just paid a few dappers for them...

placio:

"a few dappers"?? i'm saying make them at the very least 100,000 dappers each mat you want to buy. if, like me, your not a master crafter, it's not "easy" at all to make those dappers, it takes hours of work to make that as a non-crafter, given that non crafting missions pay 1/10 what a crafting mission of the same level does, i don't see it as easy at all. you say cheepen the game, how so, are you saying your one of the one's that thinks the campers should be the one's with all the "exclusive" gear. the powers that be don't have the time or the resources to police the 100's of camping toons (many are only online for a minute or two, making it even harder to catch them).

there wouldn't be a rule that says you can't hunt, and you wouldn't have to compete with the campers if you wanted to, i still see this as a win win. we all should have equal access to the best stuff in the game, and a merchant is the only thing that's 100% fair and equal to everyone that plays the game, it should also be noted that i'm not saying only 270 boss mat's should be sold, i'm saying the same about Q70, 120, 170, and 220 as well. while these lower level bosses aren't camped like the bigger ones, they too are not often seen.

ryzom is a sandbox game, let's stop trying to have a seperation of classes, meaning those that are in poverty and those that are in welth, where here poverty is not having a "fair and equal" chance and welth is being the power elite.

as a hardcore pvp player recently said to me "having the best gear in the game doesn't make you the best player in the game"
thus i believe that your view that it would ruin the gameplay is false, good players play good with poor gear, and well geared players play poorly, it's a 2-way thing.

ryzom would do just fine with two paths a person could choose from:

1) the easy way: buy the mat's
2) the hard way: actively hunt

personally i'd like to have both options at my disposal, but i would use the 2nd option because that's what i would like to do again.

EDIT:
more options to me means a richer game with more possible ways to play....

But Talk, if you aren't a crafter, what do you need the boss mats for?? *wicked grin*

And if you are a crafter, then it is easy (as you point out) to get millions of dappers from basic and fine mats and then buy the boss mats without the necessity of mastering magic or fighting or making friends who hunt bosses.

Face it, Talk, "boss mats for sale in shops" is a non-starter. It's bad for the game balance, it reduces the need to form teams and alliances (which is part of the game focus), and will continue to enrich the already rich.

-- Bittty

i feel it's another dead-lock where we'll agree to disagee. saddly huntings not much fun when your likely beat by a camper. it just ruins the fun when you hunt and hunt and never find anything, whats worse is when you only need 4 or 5 mat's for a set recipe and spend months and years trying to get those mats. ( i have a recipe that requires 8 boss mat's, i've hunted that boss at length, and even after years of play it's still on the long list of bosses i've never been able to find, even when i've been shown EXACTLY where to find it.

i think the idea of rare is taken a little too extreme, but that's my personal opinion and we are each entitled to have one :)


please my friends, don't take anything i say personally i'm just offering my thoughts and views, it in no way effects my gameplay with each of you. (we can disagree here about things and still be friends)

@Talk
If there are specific mats you are looking for use the bazzar forums.
I share your frustration and and annoyance with campers, but selling the same mats at merchant, in my opinion, does not solve the problem.

donc..si j'ai bien compris Talkirc, il faudrait une mission cadeau pnj à 500k sans avoir à la chercher pour acheter des mats sup de roi, inutiles sans avoir up les crafts qui vont avec.. *retourne méditer là dessus*

simple, i don't speak from a point of view that could be considered selfish since it's not in my favor at this time. if i understand what was said correctly. the default translations sometimes leave much to be desired.

talk

personally i like hunting, i miss doing it but with all the campers it's not any fun to feel like your doing it for nothing....

Si l'on considère que le camping est mauvais pour le jeu, il faut s'attaquer à cette pratique, pour la faire disparaitre, ou la réduire le plus possible.
Je suis contre autoriser ou laisser faire des pratiques qui nuisent au jeu, sous prétexte qu'il est "difficile" de lutter contre. Le campeur de roi est un "MAUVAIS" joueur, néfaste pour la qualité du jeu. Il doit assumer sa pratique mauvaise.

La possibilité d'obtenir des mats de roi chez le marchand, même chères, est contraire au jeu, sauf si ce sont les joueurs qui les vendent. Si un joueur veut des mats particulières, il peut aussi faire une annonce, monter une offre d'achat, etc etc. Il y a le forum, ou les différents canaux de discussion du jeu pour ça, et en plus, cela fait de l'animation.

100 K par mat n'est pas un prix cher, c'est même très économique pour la plupart des joueurs qui ont la seule compétence très commune de forer, et crafter. Cela enlève tout intérêt à la chasse, au moins sur le plan de la recherche pure. Donc, avec ce système, on punit tout le monde. Si on augment ce prix, même à 1M, on augmentera encore la différence entre les joueurs "foreurs / crafteurs", qui auront tout, et les autres, sans pour autant diminuer la mauvaise pratique du camping ...

Je crois que si l'on veut donner de l'intérêt au jeu, il faudrait autoriser la chasse aux campeurs. Ce serait amusant de créer un autre gibier. Un tag qui se met en place pour tout stationnement de plus d'une demie heure dans un rayon de 300 m autour des spots de roi par exemple. Ceux qui checkent normalement ne seraient pas gênés, et ceux qui tuent les rois auraient le temps de le faire tranquillement. (si une demie heure ne suffit pas, on peut discuter de plus, ce n'est pas le plus important, ou le temps peut être en fonction de la qualité du roi).

Pour aider nos chers animateurs de ce jeu, je propose de créer un rôle de CSR "spécial Campeur", qui consisterait à faire uniquement la chasse aux campeurs. Je suis certain qu'il y aurait beaucoup de postulants, il suffit juste d'encadrer un tout petit peu la chose. Le CSR "spécial campeur" pourrait taguer les campeurs, et avertir les autres joueurs qui se feraient un plaisir d'aller lui dire bonjour ^^. Le campeur de base, en général, c'est un reroll inconnu, assez statique, voire totalement immobile, muet, facile à différencer des autres joueurs.