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I guess I should say thank you. :D
I think I understood your point perfectly. Which is that exploits of the system should be passed by for lack of a big enough player base.
I agree this particular one is not as big as others. And I don't believe it's a priority. But it's still just the same as if a Kami could join a Kara guild.

So someday it may be corrected because it's a bug. Maybe someday there will be little enough bugs for this one to get corrected. Just like someday, level 250 or so PvP jewells made of lower level mats and degraded boosted weapons may stop being so common because they will have fixed a pair of bugs.

The point I'm making here, if anybody's still interested, is this one: wether or not this is to become a priority is in the hands of the Ryzom team. However much anybody wants to "defend" the ones using that bug is totally pointless. It will still be a bug. So if they fix it, they'll fix it. If they don't, they won't. And every debate about it is just sterile. So why not have a good laugh?

Exploits? Bugs?

When I open my fame window, it says:
"Civilisation allegiance: Neutral"
"Cult allegiance: neutral"

I'm sorry, but as it stands, marauder, in the eyes of whoever is in charge of runs this game means neutral of faction and neutral of civilization. If civ and cult neutrals are free to join any guild that INVITES them, then why is there a problem? Marauder, on my Fame window shows under "organization" not faction, as I assume, so does "Ranger" or "Trytonist"? If we are all "cult Neutral" then why is it a bug to belong to a cult aligned guild which can allow neutrals?

That is the bug, Aru.

You read it all there;

Marauders are not neutrals. THAT is the bug. And that is not open to debates. They are not neutrals.

And yes, I do believe Rangers should eventually be able to join only ranger guilds, if you wonder that. But just like the marauders, the faction isn't complete (it's even way farther from completion). As it develop, it may end up differently.

But marauders are anti-everything. And anti-everything means that marauders in a faction guild are sharing a guild with ennemies of their faction. Simple enough logic.

So yes, the game lets it happen. But it's not us who will decide when it's fixed. But when it happens, it will still be bug fixing and not a result of any argument going on in here about how legit it is.

So I do agree it's not a priority, but it's still a bug and not open to argument -unless you really want to argue on just nothing worth arguing.

Ingfarah, why do you say that Rangers (once there are Rangers) should only be allowed to join Ranger guilds? Any neutral guild should be agreeable to both having a Ranger in it and agreeable to the Ranger. I'm not at all sure that there is going to be the possibility of aligning an entire guild to Ranger.

Why is that a bug? because it offends your interpretation of Role play? Only positive fame equals neutral? When I took the Marauder rite, the NPC made it clear that I was bound by no laws except that of my own guild, not any government, not any religion.....neutral.

Ingfarah.... Just on my way out but with the logic that you are arguing and your definition of neutral- nobody with above +25 fames or below -25 fames are neutrals. I am sure Bittty would disagree this with you.

I believe that in context of the shift+f tab the definition of 'neutral' means not aligned. In this case Marauders are neutral as they are an organization.

Virg: I'm talking about logic, not sophistry.A neutral''s fames are bound to be 50 or under with no floor. Once you've taken Kami/Kara/Nation rite, one of your fames can go to 100 and another one can't go over 0. I believe you and I both know that a marauder's fame can't go over 0 and that marauders passed a rite.

Aru: it is a bug because it is a bug. Not because it offends my sense of roleplay. Ask a dev. If I'm wrong, let the dev answer here. At the second one of them says I'm wrong with that, then this post has no meaning anymore and it becomes a matter of roleplay (and believe it or not, I'm pretty sure this post wasn't supposed to be about choices in roleplay).

Bitty: If Rangers are to become a faction (like Kami, Karas and Marauders), then the same rules should apply to them as to the other factions. The Ranger faction, though, is not yet in existence, so my opinion here is just an opinion. For the marauder faction, it's a fact on which I MAY be wrong. But you just have to ask the question.

It is semantics and a matter of opinion :) The thing to realize is that many have different opinions and different ways of looking at things.

Ingfarah, Virg --

Yes, as has been clear from my previous comments, I would disagree that +50 across the board is not neutral. Remember that Fame is not so much how a homin regards the Nation or Civilisation, but how they regard him or her. Neutral means that we don't take sides between the PTBs.

In a war a "neutral nation" is one that is not at war. Correspondingly a "neutral homin" is one who does not attack any of the nations (or Powers), but is regarded as a friend by all.

Ingfarah: The Rangers will never be a true Faction in the game sense: they can't be. They are an organization, just as the Marauders are an organization. However, no homin with sense would invite a sworn enemy of his Nation or Religion into his household, but to invite a friend? That is just common sense. In game terms, an un-aligned ("neutral") guild would be ideal to invite Rangers into, but an aligned guild might do so as well.

If the question hinges too much for too many people on the use of the word "neutral" getting confused between a gameplay term and common English usage, then I reluctantly suggest the term "positive" for the fame looked for in a Ranger applicant. I am reluctant since I see no reason not to use "neutral".

When the marauder rite has been added, there was not any specific "marauder fame": the Marauders were recognized by their all very negative fames only and not by a specific marauder positive one. This has caused problems with the marauder guards, who didn't recognized the Marauders so didn't defended them. Since then, the gameplay has been changed and a specific Marauders positive fame has been added: any Marauder has got a >50 Marauder fame now. That's the reason why the marauder guards protect Marauders now: they check their Marauder fame.

The old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) is also the reason why there still have a "bug" with the guilds, who don't check the new "marauder fame" for the moment so don't recognize a Marauder and only see him as a factions-neutral and civilizations-neutral. This has to be fixed. A Marauder shouldn't be able to join a non marauder guild, as a Kara homin can't join a Kami one or a Fyros homin can't join a Matis one.

This old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) causes also a technical problem with the forums: Marauders should not have access to "Factions-neutrals" forum neither to "Civilization-neutrals" one because they are not neutrals, they are "Marauders". This will have to be fixed too.

I am probably in the only guild that is affected by this - thanks a bunch, eh, enjoy "your" game

We are One will also suffer from this as well bina, there are a few other guilds that will suffer as well, i see another loss of players in the future because of yet another limit being imposed. some players go mara simply for the bulk free tp's, so how about making that equal, remove the .25 bulk from each of the kami/karavan teleports. then maybe some will not make the change....

Cannot reply, Talk, and remain civil - the 3 marauders in my guild - one leaves in February, the other 2 appear to have pretty much left anyway, though still subscribed at the moment

You know, if someone is going Mara simply for the "bulk-free tps", they can just go something else and get the "minor amount of bulk" tps of the Kami or Kara. That's not a roleplay decision and shouldn't cause them to leave. What I wonder about is why a guild with Marauders in it would want to align K/K or Nation.

All I can say is that any Marauders who are (somehow) not PvP players are welcome to join Phaedreas Tears, a neutral guild. (They would have to swear that they would be helpful to all, too.) There is no indication in Tamarea's post that they will not be allowed to join neutral guilds. In fact I would suggest that truly neutral guilds *ought* to be allowed to recruit anyone (which they cannot at the moment).

there's a point in your last post bittty that i like and agree with, something along the lines of a guild that would willingly allow all types of players in at once, that would be the only way to be a truely neutral guild without prejudice, one where EVERYONE could be a member. personally i like that, then there'd be something for everyone.

besides bittty, the bulk aspect, i'm saying that on the grounds of "where is the balance", since this is an unfair advantage in terms of bag space (even keeping one tp of each alter has an affect.) i would like to invest 10m dappers on tp's so i don't have to rebuy them all the time (similar to the fact that a mara can buy 10m dappers worth of tp's and not waste ANY bulk.) i'm complaining about this because it's a fact. (tp's are the only real dapper sink in game atm)

well that's my two dappers.