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My dear Mjollren!

I was being accused of distorting Leanon's history, and that when i referred to Events that defined my character i was told that is bullshit and it never happened, and that Leanon was the true history, and they tried to enforce their history on me. I'm acting in kind to that.

How can you make a comment on something what you have no idea of?

Fyranna --

As an Arispotle roleplayer of the same sort that Daomei is a Leanon role-player (i.e. that most of my roleplaying has had to do with events, not meetings, and that I am proud of my contributions to them) I must say that I have found your posts to be more intemperate than they really have any need to be. Bittty may not like the Matis as a whole but he has accepted that they have not recently given any cause for him to worry about them. (Bittty still thinks Sterga Hamla is a (rhymes with crass), but that's Sterga.)

OOC, and somewhat to the point of this thread:

If you check back to the post where you were "being accused of distorting Leanon's history", I have to say that I read it in an entirely different fashion.

I see both Salazar and Daomei simply pointing out that your statements about the Matis burning Thesos are as much a distortion of Leanon history as their account of radicals Fyros (or apparently Aniro's account of fanatical Matis mentioned in another area) are a distortion of Arispotle's history.

The discussion here is not about which one is "right", but how we can make them all merge so that we can continue to play together. You and I remember the death of the Sharukos to a mysterious disease followed by the Matis invasion (including the abominable *Yubo bombs*). Daomei remembers helping heal the Sharukos. I'm sure Fey-Lin remembers something else entirely.

In ALL histories the old Sharukos is now dead. He was buried at Cerakos Gate in a very moving ceremony that somehow managed to gloss over the differences in the memories of those present. (No complete account seems to have been published but a reference is here.) Some people remember him dying of disease, some remember him dying on the trek to the Kami Oasis in the last days of the Great Swarming. As Hawkeye says to the Black Widow in The Avengers, "You and I remember Budapest very differently. "

And that difference in memory is probably where we are going to end up when all the sturm und drang dies down. It is not going to be possible to "merge the histories", but it may be necessary to agree that we have "different memories of Budapest." That those memories shape us in roleplay terms is inevitable. I don't see that changing. We will have to learn to respect those differences rather than fighting about them. Yrkanis is dead, Stil Wyler is dead, Dexton is dead. Only Mabreka Cho still lives and even there our memories differ.

Look to the future... the past is dead. We need to look to it to learn, but let us temper that learning from the past with *observing* the present. (I say this not only from the OOC point of view but from the roleplaying point of view as well.)

-- With respect,
Bittty

This is "an eye for an eye" mentality and all it accomplishes is leaving the whole world blind. When I see this in my children, it usually arises as "they started it."

My response is always the same: They may have started it but who will be the first to stop it?

One History to Rule Them All

Reading this thread and the blindly vehement attitudes displayed, it is very unlikely that the player base will ever agree on a history and, really, it's not our place to write one. I would rather see the "true" history of Atys played out—the one written in the old Ryzom Bible—but that is equally unlikely; however, it does show what needs to happen: A history needs to be given to us. Whether it's simply one of the previous server histories, a new history or a blending, someone (or a group of someones) needs to be designated to retcon the history of Atys.

Here is the most important point: All three communities must agree to support the new history. Why? Because there is only one community now, no longer three. There can be only one history for this new community. If we continue petty—yes, petty and trivial and asinine—arguments about whose history is better or should be kept or is valid then we will destroy Ryzom and Atys faster than the Goo ever will.

Anzhanto

Here is one suggestion, can we not write all three histories into the Lore? Here is one idea, it may be simplistic here to start, but im sure you creative ones can enlarge on it. Perhaps lets say there was 3 dementions (Aris, leanon, and Aniro) each had a valid true history. Then something in the Cosmos, or Evil from either Kami, Kara, or Trytonist caused all the 3 dementions to come slamming together and all of us are here now with our own true histories, but need to make sense of what happened. With the name Arispotle, that should give a clue. Also, if you noticed when you logged on, this time period we are in is called: The Road to Power. what does that mean? Could it be tied in?
If this Idea is not adopted, then i suggest somebode note all the histories for all 3 servers side by side: Arispotle Aniro Leanon
Underneath, we record the differences, and as a community vote on the things we want to keep and things we do not, and live with the results.
Or, we can let Devs dictate history.

i like what i read naema, nice to see that others agree something, what exactly is still unknown, but something needs to be done to unite us again, we're all homin.

Talkirc, we had this discussion already, and I recall to have made the proposal with the several dimensions, which, btw. is not even in contradiction with RL physics (refer to multiple worlds interpretation in quantum physics, Everest, DeWitt et al.).

For me, it is important, that our histories which shaped us before the merge, will not be scrapped. I cannot say which part of them will ever be significant again, thus I cannot say that I am willing to give up parts of it. I want to listen to the experiences of others from other realms, to learn from them for better understanding.

if daomei we did, i must have misunderstood, for that i'm sorry, but if we go with that ideal, then the 3 histories are just that, and from the point of the merger on we're making new history, that's directly related to the here and now of the new atys. if that's the case (as it could very well be, and i'm open to it, IF) then at this point all role play changed form the separate worlds/parallel universes/ect. to this new one, the new roleplay should be related to getting to know eachother, and to talk about our different histories from where ever. and we start new roleplay that doesn't really relate to that for the over all story, but for each player, the deed's they did the memories they have, can stay intact, however they have to move beyond the cataclysmic event that forced us all together into a single world/universe/reality/ect.

that will help to create the new history of ONE atys.

i see new options to this problem, now all we have to do is all come to terms with at least one of these options. then we can start at that point, until then, we're all lost and confused about what's real, and to each of us in question, it was real for us all, but different from eachother, we can learn from that if we open our minds to it.

I love that this thread is starting to become constructive, and I would never have tought about the alternative reality's idea myself wich I like.

The "Alternate World" theory is almost a standard in Science Fiction literature for decades, of course. The current mode of Steampunk, originally fathered in the Seventies by Michael Moorcock (The Bastable Chronicles), Brian W. Aldiss (Frankenstein Unbound) and Harry Harrison (A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!), named in the Eighties by K.W. Jeter (Morlock Nights), Tim Powers (The Anubis Gates) and James P. Blaylock (Homunculus) and receiving its cornerstone with William Gibson's & Bruce Sterling's 1991 ultimate alternative history novel, The Difference Engine, would have been impossible without it.

I just guess that's the basic future idea for Ryzom, too. It would explain so much (not only different memories, but why have our long-time politicians, for example, never met before?). It, and that's the important thing, would save our characters.

The latter would not be that important to me if I had joined the game shortly before the Second Swarming, but after over eight years here, beginning between the Marauder Invasion and the Temple Wars, my character (I dislike the term "toon", which makes it too abstract and unpersonal for me) was shaped by what happened IG on Leanon during all those years, and I am certain the same feeling have the players on Arispotle and Aniro who are on Atys for ages, at least if they were involved in RP at all. To wipe out the past of the three servers (or of two, or of one) would destroy more than could be gained by a new history for all three together, I think. From the very personal view: I'm not grinding, I'm neither a digger, nor a crafter - not even a fighter, in fact - I'm just a roleplayer, and loosing my history would really be the end of Salazar. You can't start anew, from scratch, after so many years. I couldn't.

P.S.: Don't know that Sterga Hamla. What is his function on Silan? As said before, there was no Silan when I started to play ...

I doesn't contribute to the discussion here, but in fact on Leanon Dexton had the most heroic death imaginable - like Colonel Travis in 1960's THE ALAMO he held Ceratos Gate fighting the invading Kitins before being run over and thus won a lot of respect from Salazar that way. He knew how to make an exit. ;)

I'm trying to get to a compromize here. Just look at what i voted for! I'm willing to help make the merge, I'm willing to give up some of the History that i know. Daomei just say NO and we should accept his. I have even edited the post where i have said a part of my back story about Thesos. Have a Look, It wasn't edited 3 miuntes ago.

But to be fair I'm playing a Fyros character. The Fyros are being depicted as hotheaded, foulmouthed, eye for an eye people on Silan. If you ask me, i'm playing my role perfectly, yet i'm STILL being critisized for it. Next will be what? Only the French and German community will be allowed to RP?

Another thing! I was asked not to put szjb: or nkb: on my posts. Well i would like to ask the french players to NOT put HRP and such on the English forums. To me HRP means Horse Piss. So as long as they are allowed to use the abreviation of THEIR native language of Out Of Character and In Character on the Forums I should be too allowed to do in my native language as well. If they don't understand it, they can ask me in game like i had ask what HRP is in game.

Thank you

I personnally could agree with a common past for ATYS, as it is quite easy for my character that is not as old as many others. The changes would be minor, most of my character's past history could be just told as a story that many didn't know that happened. But I understand as well that players having a character that had relationship with important NPC could not wipe their past like that.

(for Fyranna) Daomei (as example) is not forcing you to accept her past history, she's asking you not to force her to wipe it, which is slightly but enough different.

That being said, I have no proposition to make. The idea of multiple universes merging is too close to the server merge statement for me to consider this serious as a roleplaying fact. (and is too "Fringe"-like too imo (in my opinion for peoples not knowing this shortcut)

History in real life has conflicting versions. As we find out more facts some incidents are re-evaluated and the history books change. I don't see any problem with this happening on Atys.

We all accept the history we are taught but we should all be aware that this history is not necessarily what really happened.

In my opinion the persistent history is one of the attributes which makes Ryzom special and different. For me as a new player now nearly 3 years ago it was an amazing experience to read all the names of guilds and players from a then about 7 year long history, for example at the memorial steles for the crafters and fighters of the temple wars. So many of these players had vanished, some of them we even lost in RL as I was told by their friends. And a couple of them was still around.

Meeting those people and reading these memories - on the planet and in the forums and archives - was a great experience making this game unique in comparison with mainstream stuff with its pre-cooked storyline where the player circled in a closed time loop.

While the steles and inscriptions are gone (maybe one should think of a place to let them reappear, kind of Aniro, Arispotle, and Leanon museum), it would be cruel to wipe the memories as well. And it would deprive us of something valuable.

Yet you had no problem telling me that my near to 6 years of Ryzom history count for nothing. And that I'm distorting Leanon's History.