IDÉES POUR RYZOM

Which class do we talk about here? While I had never problem to dig any basic/fine mats for training. And also most of surface excellent just needs knowledge of the specific area.

Well i think several things are being discussed.

1. Sin wants fewer high end mats.

2. Sarpedonia's comments, at least what i gathered from in game discussions in Guild Chat was commenting that things have already been made harder post-merge and let's not take it any further. Three things factor in to being an "efficient" dig spot:

Proximity to TP
Proximity of Hawker
All mats within reasonable walk distance

Pre-merge, in desert, I could dig all the choice mats I wanted ... desired choice mats, mind you ... with a short walk from a TP and with a once / twice a day or so aggro attack. Today, yes I can find easy spots for each mat but it's inconvenient as dragging your mek around and long walks to / from TPs and hawkers are often required. To find all 4 mats of ya typical armor / weapon craft close to one another **in a zone that has close access TPs and hawkers** not so much.

Loria Ponds is one such area but, except for Mara is a pain to get to / from and rarely has a Hawker. Lost Valley is probably the most used for this purpose and it remains the only spot that I have seen knock the KT line down to any significance since merge. Access thru Void TP stinks for me but neighboring region HoP is not bad.

Flaming Forest has decent TP and Hawker access but many choice mats are right in aggro spawns. I have adjusted by switching to basic which is OK for me since Harvest XP is meaningless and craft XP yields the same no matter what the mat grade is.

I keep a packer in Void, Lakes and Desert ... can't be bothered w/ Forest. In lakes I keep in Lake Superior cause the no Hawker thing in Loria Ponds is a deal killer for me.

However, to the new or returning player who hasn't mastered all dig regions, the goal will be do dig choice to maximize dig XP and craft in close proximity to a TP and hawker. Not commenting why either is a good or bad thing, but he is correct ... it is harder to dig choice mats relatively undisturbed post-merge at a spot that fits the 3 criteria above.

The running doesn't bother me so much in comparison of having limited ability to fullfil craft plans without incuring death penalty.

Freddy is correct that my issue is to make sure people don't talk the devs into making it MORE difficult than it is with a preference of reverting to what dig conditions were premerge.

Making digs for general XP hard or impossible for newcomers just does not sell the game to anyone. If we make the game difficult to the point where you need master melee/heal/nuke to dig, we will have a population issue worse than we keep seeing over the years.

Nevrax went under due to poor marketting imo. Maybe it was other things as well, but not selling the game or advertising it doesn't make a game live. Then you add ontop of a huge learning curve and difficult starting in a "WoW" gamer age, This will remain a ghost town.

Basic mats should be agro free or very limited. Increase the agro occurance to match the quality of the mats.

For those that "have no issue" Do you report and share your dig finds on map sites? If not, you can't really expect any positive replies from returning players or new players....let alone agreements with you.

No. I gave up making any marks on map, I simply use BM to see where it should be and then it is not hard to locate there. And when I dag somewhere before I usually remember. However, showing spots to others when it comes to a question.

I think its still best to track random ex and then let tracking to lead me. I like random digging, if anything i like on digging :P

Well high end mats I believe some secrecy is good. But basic and Fine would be helpful to the community if people share what isn't already shared. Maybe Choice would be good if the digger is generous with knowledge.

I got two hints when I was low level digger, try prospecting in herbie groups or near zinuakeens.

Most of my (basic-choice) dig spots I've found by using relatively long time on searching them by exploring and trial and error, or when someone has shown me a spot.

"In Ryzom players together are against the game" and the famous cookie quote are showing we like it hard here. After working to accomplish something, it's more rewarding too ;)

Boosting with sups is everyday now for players, doesnt sound sups have their value or Ryzom style hardness to me. This leads back to this topic.

I'm all for and ok with the concept of "If you want toys, you have to work for it"
But for basic grinding and skill up garbage not so much. A little challenge sure. But I think if one honestly looks back 6+ years ago, there was a distinct difficulty gap that seemed to work well between PR, Sup and basic garbage materials.

Maybe the high end could have been harder back then, but lower were about right.

I wasnt around 6+ years ago, (not even half of that lol), so I dont know what happened then, but nowadays you just gotta believe in yourself. Even grindy mats are the toys you gotta put some effort, know the terrain (not to dig where nameds or aggro attack if you cant handle them etc), so just go and try. Worst thing that can happen is some DP that has gone away way before your bag is filled with mats.

Or maybe team up with master digger, get fast experience AND you'll see where materials are.

Sorry if I came across as unknowing or newb.
I am master dig, master 2hand axe, master ele, master heal etc.... I am merely thinking that just because they are the way they are now, doesn't mean it is ideal for a game to gain popularity or retain new members. Thereby more subscriptions.

Basic should be newb or solo friendly imo. They were once upon a time, and I think they should be again.

Jahuu -- what happened 6 years ago was the server merger.  As part of that merger all the material locations were moved so that those players who wished to keep their experience and skills wouldn't have a "big advantage" over those who chose to start anew.

As might have been predicted, that didn't work, and in Prime Roots it REALLY didn't work, since zones ended up right on top of each other and the prospecting and tracking operations failed/gave conflicting results.  The Prime Roots mats were put back to status quo ante, but the basic stuff that used to be available in the near vicinity of the towns was reduced to one mat only (amber), and several reasonably safe locations for early stages of digging and crafting (i.e. materials for a whole pair of pants were available near to each other) went away.

Thank you Bitty, that is a well put better indepth example of what I was trying to convey.

Not sure I understood, but I can name several locations where all materials are available close to each other. Like Thesos, Fount, EI, FG...

Hmm, as I never experienced these times, I cant really say much to that. I had found mektoub waterhole in jungle by myself and it was huge adventure. It took week atleast to get to know the place and to realize there is 10 different type of mats and knowing not to dig sap where Raguses roam and what of these mats goes to armor and what to pistol bullets. Knowing to face pond to get oil and Hoï-Cho to get sap (and the joy of learning mat spec on prospect). Made me see forager as someone who survives in the wild with just pickaxe in hand. I'm glad that there were no easy mats near capital. Then, I ended up talking to other forager who showed me spots in q200 zone next to the capital, it was huge deal. Sure there was Fylish roaming, but after few deaths one learns to avoid it. Gotta find your place in the Atys as forager. You and wilderness, and never knowing when kitins might come...

Now people keep talking about the Prime Roots, so Jahuu goes in and learns soon (after few DP's..) to watch out for Voraxes and Tyrancha, runs fast and far when bunch of kirostas seem to attack from far. Learns safer places to dig, and to avoid certain spots if they are full of aggro in this season. Next season it might be easy digging, just like how mektoub waterhole taught. "Oh, a supreme pop", mark down weather, season and time of day and trying when it will pop again. Cleared the spot few times and ended up clearing some other spots now and then, not too much, just once in a while and mostly just dumping stuff into GH for our crafters. Getting craft levels higher and boosting stuff since everybody else were boosting too.. Ended up having NPC HA, boosting staff and shield, getting the "is this it?" moment running almost invulnerable to anywhere. The going exile and giving all away but dig gear was very refreshing, trying still to stay far from supremes and that feeling.

Back to the topic, some challenge IN THE END GAME would be fun. Supremes are way too easy to get and hitting the roof _alone_ is nasty imo. Maybe if it would need more people to really get supremes, like with the Sinvaders' idea of less stabile sup spots or whatever. End game is way too single player game now (again imo), I atleast want to rely on other players more.

I disagree with some points.

Some sup spots; sure; they are super easy to dig. But so are a ton of other things in Ryzom.

But some spots; for a solo digger; they require extreme knowledge of the aggro movement on the area and when is the only window you will have to go dig your spot in one go. Notable examples: Dzao at LoC; Tama at US, Soo at FD etc. etc. etc. If u have a meat-shield everything is easy; if u don't it's not at all easy.

Shouldn't I , and all those like myself that have mastered the art of sneaking to difficult spots, be handsomely rewarded? We should.

Sup hunting for myself; is the only activity I really enjoy in Atys; the only real challenge that remains; that can be done with one person. You take that away; you take away my fun time; something I have invested way too much time in to learn and become good at. It's a fine art on its own to even know according to weather and where you are when to use your specials, when to purposefully dp taxi, when to tp, which mat to go after first; which specials you should use and when (some spots have jugs on the way some others don't). This is all a tremendous aspect of PR digging gameplay. Take away the benefits; we have nothing to play for.

I was the first to complain when Pats where removed from the Roots (for no reason at all), and I was the first to cherish their return. Like-wise when the goo-lag annoyances were introduced; it was a nightmare trying to solo-dig in PR; I stopped playing for quite some time when that happened. Those who have the time and invest their time into any activity they are good at, should be rewarded accordingly; if not; then our time is not worth it. Do whatever you want on the surface; (does anyone even care that after the last reboot the thessos wall "disappeared?"), but leave our roots alone.

I will stress again and again and again that the problems stem from Guilds keeping up with their Faction-only policies; and not making any effort what-so-ever to engage in trade activities with other factions. Of course if that's the attitude that is dominant, we all end up with stacks of sup mats in our GHs and we complain about over-abundance.

Need I mention the extremely hillarious thing that because of this policy; some factions, end up with a tremendous amount of Boss Loot, which they cannot however, irony huh, put to any good use, because they don't do Marauder Hunts, so they don't even have crystals to craft said loot? Or the fact that they ban and criticize other guilds that participate in said hunts? (And I am talking about my faction as well)

Yes; over-abundance of resources is the problem; clearly; not the dead-end cold war RP that has stagnated the market-place...

And here is the kicker: Sup digging allows a sole homina to be in control of her future. With a fully stocked sup gh; you do not need any faction, any guild, no-one. You are really free to play your game the way you want it; you have endless power. And this I know from my experience. I am kami because I have elected to be one; and because of my friends. However; I don't need them; and I hope they don't need me.

Because I can stand on my super tall legs on my own; I don't even care if my faction disagrees with me; and they have done on many times in the past.I am free. I am free because I don't depend on them. Maybe that's why many RP heavy guilds emphasize on the importance of doing things only intra-guild, or intra-faction, they are afraid of what happens when individual hominas and homins don't give a crap about their policies; when individual hominas seize utter control of the means of production to the extend to which; we really don't careeeee about your RP because we are FREE!

#DemolishRPeconomy

Too early in the morning for me. Not enough coffee in the world to place all that into my braincells to make sense. BUT I "think" I like/agree with your post Northstar :-)