IDÉES POUR RYZOM

Craft missions are definitely a better way to get rich, and you get craft XP too!

I do wonder if the limit of 36 items donated daily can be applied to an entire account and not just the individual toon...

wow, this is the first time i've seen someone say making dappers is too easy since the merger.

sure you can use alts to turn in to NH, let's keep in mind the fact that even with alts, you much spend time getting the stuff for that, you claim it's too easy to do, let's consider a few facts about making dappers:

NH: can make up to 360,000 dappers per toon per day (23 hours cooldown)
Crafting: single mission that gives 400,000+ dappers per 4 hours (can be done up to 6 times in a day, producing 2,400,000+ dappers with a single toon {would take about 7 toons doing NH to make the same amount})

NH: requires that you spend time doing an occupation, thus there is effort in getting the products to turnin to NH
Craft: requires that you spend time getting mats, thus there is effort in getting the mats to do the crafting

bottom line: the new post-merger economy stinks.
NH is a small helping hand (you can only do it once per toon every 23 hours, so it's not as profitable as one might think)
Crafting is much more profitable and also requires work (but crafting get's you xp in various skills, fight/magic for mob mats, harvest xp if you dig them, also the cool down for crafting missions is under 4 hours, so you can do them much more often the NH.

as for the use of alts with NH, let me just say to turn in on 10 toons, you must do a list of things: 1) collect occ components 2) practice the occupation 3) ware down the NH system enough to allow each toon to turn in (this part alone can take 30 minutes) 4) log in and out each toon and turn in 5) exchange the dappers to the main toon. this whole process for 10 toons is a huge amount of work for a small gain in the end.

i've found craft missions in the Q50 to Q100 area that pay nearly 100k per mission, and can be done every 3 hours, which takes much less effort then working all the alts in all the other stuff.

let's also take note that a f2p can't reach the huge paying missions previously mentioned, thus NH is the BEST paying option for them in terms of single line of effort for most reward.

i further would like to point out that often the people i see knocking NH as a source of income have high craft skills, which leads me to wonder if they are trying to instill a 1% into ryzom similar to the real world, where 1% have everything and anything, and the other 99% suffer and are limited.

if dappers are so worthless, why are you complaining that NH gives them? (the dapper must be worth something if some says there's a "too easy" way to get them)

if anything the cooldown on NH should be reduced to 6 or 8 hours, or the amount of products you can turn in per 23 hours should be increased. also, the ware on the NH system per tp is too low, but those are just my thoughts and opinions on the topic.

NH is an attempt to offset the fact that crafters can make more dappers then anyone else far faster then anyone without a craft. untill there's a mission that tells me "kill 20 Q200 najab's and i'll pay you 200,000" NH is simply trying to shrink the huge space between a hunter/mage and a digger/crafter.

(placio, even if limited to account vs a single toon, ppl could just make 100 f2p accounts with a single toon on each, so changing NH isn't a solution at all in the end, we need to look at creating something NEW that will create a source of dapper income that helps to close the huge gap between crafters and non-crafters)

just my 2 dappers
talk

basically: stop knocking NH and start trying to come up with new mission ideas that don't involve crafting with a fair payout for said mission. (eg. kill 10 Q100+ gingo's and i'll pay you 35,000, with a cooldown of 30 to 60 minutes) the real fix is to crate something new that makes NH less of a source of income for the non-crafting/digging players. (let's face it, not everyone likes to dig and craft)

I tend to disagree to both Imotep and Talkirc.

Imotep does not see sufficiently that it takes a while to let a character do a citizen rite, and somewhat longer to reach 99 or 100 nation fame. Only then 360.000 dappers are given once a day in exchange for 36 occupation products. Getting the products also is not done in zero time, rather in about 20-30 minutes on average. And you have to develop every character at least a bit to achieve that and haven't him or her lying dead every couple of steps. This is nothing for a throwaway alt dropped from Silan at level 1.

So, if you want a million per day, you have to prepare 3 alts, log them in one after another, do their money job, deliver, and log out. It is feasible, sure. Yet this boring job is surely eating 1.5hr a day. I, for example, have no more time to stay on Atys than 3-4 hours maximum during workdays, recently. I can assure that I would not sacrifice half of this time for such boring stuff.

In fact, craft missions are great, and those still developping their skills can combine digging, hunting, and crafting gaining dappers. And it is not hard indeed to get the money one needs, and even lots more. When doing all missions in Dyron at the campfire overseer, I am earning approximately 1.6 million iirc. For that purpose, I am digging (in case I am) about 1200 mats of different kind. When doing level grind (for Diwu) I collect the loot and store it for crafting. That way, I may earn dappers while doing things which are fun like digging everywhere on the bark, or level grind which can be fun, too.

I disagree, though, that it is in any way hard to get the dappers one needs every day. Even a beginner may start with one occupation, spend 10-15 minutes to get the products, then earn 90k dappers per day as a civ neutral, or 30 minutes and 180k dappers when doing 2 occs. That is way more than a newbie will ever spend, allowing to buy packers and an apartment soon (if subbed).

Without that, a beginner would be left with corporal etc. missions earning 2-5k dappers or craft missions earning 5k to 20k dappers on beginner level (lvl 30 ca.). That is not much, but also no imminent threat of running out of dappers and being unable e.g. to teleport.

In fact, I am also against getting rid of NH, it is a good headstart and motivates players to familiarize with nations, citizenship, fame, and basic occupations.

Yet no, the economy does not stink. Players are just lazy.

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To add one thing: A real problem is that after having learnt how to earn dappers, there is no realistic way to spend them except simply wasting, giving away etc., the wheel of fortune is too slow, dappers are faster earned than spent. But there is not much worth while to get from dappers.

A proposal I made long time ago was creating additional rooms, each with a slight increase of storage, in apartments on increasing scale: 2nd room 10m, 3rd room 50m, then 100, 500, 1000million. A 7 room flat would be something really extraordinary :).

daomei, seams like we pretty much agree on everything but the fact that the new econ post merger stinks. every other point i made you basically agreed with, NH alts require work and time.

i also agree that there's not much to spend dappers on once you have all the basic stuff needed, another thing that should be improved along with missions for player that don't want to craft and dig.

on the part of players that are "lazy": getting a craft master is anything but fast, and as you point out Daomei, your play time is limited: this is the very fact as to why the econ stinks in many ways, i'm not saying give something for nothing, but let's face it, some people are only going to play an hour a day at most, thus they're not going to invest the effort required to get those high craft masters in a few weeks of playing. so they need a mission that can be done in that hour that will provide them with income to survive.

as for the issue of having things to spend dappers on: we need better day to day offerings from the merchants. right now the things they offer for sale are nearly worthless, and if sold for 2 dappers 90% of the server will still never buy the gear. i understand we need to keep crafting homins in business, but if the merchants sell things at least with decent stats and hp bonuses players might have something to buy.

as i said before: NH getting a change isn't the solution, new missions and merchants are.

Why on earth do you want to change the game/mechanics/rules to impose a dapper-based economy? In what way will the game be improved by making dappers the primary trading currency?

Just to get back to Imotep's first post: The idea is to prohibit item exchanges, I assume dapper exchange mostly, as a way to reduce exploitation of NH.

Now that I have re-read that, I am 100% opposed to restricting exchanges for paid or f2p. And as I said earlier, crafting is a much better way of making money, so if someone wants to waste their life logging into a dozen different alts then thats their loss :)