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#59 [en] 

Yes, buying king loot from merchants would make camping useless- but it would also make most of the game useless too...

#60 [en] 

one word question: HOW?

i stopped hunting actively because of the camping issues and many others have as well, so how does a solution that removes the need of campers make the rest of the game useless? (i'd once again enjoy taking part in a portion of the game that's rendered useless by campers. that to me seams like it would do just the reverse of your statement placio)

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#61 [en] 

@Talk
Because they are unique materials that should be earned by hardwork. Your suggestion to make them available for sale takes any sense of acheivement out of the process. Essentially you would punish the people who actually do want to hunt, by cheapening the worth of this loot.
And for me and others a large part of this game and the special mobs/items in it is the effort to get them. How great are those mat or items made with them if you just paid a few dappers for them...

Dernière édition par Placio (il y a 10 ans).

#62 [en] 

placio:

"a few dappers"?? i'm saying make them at the very least 100,000 dappers each mat you want to buy. if, like me, your not a master crafter, it's not "easy" at all to make those dappers, it takes hours of work to make that as a non-crafter, given that non crafting missions pay 1/10 what a crafting mission of the same level does, i don't see it as easy at all. you say cheepen the game, how so, are you saying your one of the one's that thinks the campers should be the one's with all the "exclusive" gear. the powers that be don't have the time or the resources to police the 100's of camping toons (many are only online for a minute or two, making it even harder to catch them).

there wouldn't be a rule that says you can't hunt, and you wouldn't have to compete with the campers if you wanted to, i still see this as a win win. we all should have equal access to the best stuff in the game, and a merchant is the only thing that's 100% fair and equal to everyone that plays the game, it should also be noted that i'm not saying only 270 boss mat's should be sold, i'm saying the same about Q70, 120, 170, and 220 as well. while these lower level bosses aren't camped like the bigger ones, they too are not often seen.

ryzom is a sandbox game, let's stop trying to have a seperation of classes, meaning those that are in poverty and those that are in welth, where here poverty is not having a "fair and equal" chance and welth is being the power elite.

as a hardcore pvp player recently said to me "having the best gear in the game doesn't make you the best player in the game"
thus i believe that your view that it would ruin the gameplay is false, good players play good with poor gear, and well geared players play poorly, it's a 2-way thing.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#63 [en] 

ryzom would do just fine with two paths a person could choose from:

1) the easy way: buy the mat's
2) the hard way: actively hunt

personally i'd like to have both options at my disposal, but i would use the 2nd option because that's what i would like to do again.

EDIT:
more options to me means a richer game with more possible ways to play....

Dernière édition par Talkirc (il y a 10 ans).

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
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#64 [en] 

But Talk, if you aren't a crafter, what do you need the boss mats for?? *wicked grin*

And if you are a crafter, then it is easy (as you point out) to get millions of dappers from basic and fine mats and then buy the boss mats without the necessity of mastering magic or fighting or making friends who hunt bosses.

Face it, Talk, "boss mats for sale in shops" is a non-starter. It's bad for the game balance, it reduces the need to form teams and alliances (which is part of the game focus), and will continue to enrich the already rich.

-- Bittty

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#65 [en] 

i feel it's another dead-lock where we'll agree to disagee. saddly huntings not much fun when your likely beat by a camper. it just ruins the fun when you hunt and hunt and never find anything, whats worse is when you only need 4 or 5 mat's for a set recipe and spend months and years trying to get those mats. ( i have a recipe that requires 8 boss mat's, i've hunted that boss at length, and even after years of play it's still on the long list of bosses i've never been able to find, even when i've been shown EXACTLY where to find it.

i think the idea of rare is taken a little too extreme, but that's my personal opinion and we are each entitled to have one :)


please my friends, don't take anything i say personally i'm just offering my thoughts and views, it in no way effects my gameplay with each of you. (we can disagree here about things and still be friends)

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#66 [en] 

@Talk
If there are specific mats you are looking for use the bazzar forums.
I share your frustration and and annoyance with campers, but selling the same mats at merchant, in my opinion, does not solve the problem.

#67 [fr] 

donc..si j'ai bien compris Talkirc, il faudrait une mission cadeau pnj à 500k sans avoir à la chercher pour acheter des mats sup de roi, inutiles sans avoir up les crafts qui vont avec.. *retourne méditer là dessus*

#68 [en] 

simple, i don't speak from a point of view that could be considered selfish since it's not in my favor at this time. if i understand what was said correctly. the default translations sometimes leave much to be desired.

talk

personally i like hunting, i miss doing it but with all the campers it's not any fun to feel like your doing it for nothing....

Dernière édition par Talkirc (il y a 10 ans).

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#69 [fr] 

Si l'on considère que le camping est mauvais pour le jeu, il faut s'attaquer à cette pratique, pour la faire disparaitre, ou la réduire le plus possible.
Je suis contre autoriser ou laisser faire des pratiques qui nuisent au jeu, sous prétexte qu'il est "difficile" de lutter contre. Le campeur de roi est un "MAUVAIS" joueur, néfaste pour la qualité du jeu. Il doit assumer sa pratique mauvaise.

La possibilité d'obtenir des mats de roi chez le marchand, même chères, est contraire au jeu, sauf si ce sont les joueurs qui les vendent. Si un joueur veut des mats particulières, il peut aussi faire une annonce, monter une offre d'achat, etc etc. Il y a le forum, ou les différents canaux de discussion du jeu pour ça, et en plus, cela fait de l'animation.

100 K par mat n'est pas un prix cher, c'est même très économique pour la plupart des joueurs qui ont la seule compétence très commune de forer, et crafter. Cela enlève tout intérêt à la chasse, au moins sur le plan de la recherche pure. Donc, avec ce système, on punit tout le monde. Si on augment ce prix, même à 1M, on augmentera encore la différence entre les joueurs "foreurs / crafteurs", qui auront tout, et les autres, sans pour autant diminuer la mauvaise pratique du camping ...

Je crois que si l'on veut donner de l'intérêt au jeu, il faudrait autoriser la chasse aux campeurs. Ce serait amusant de créer un autre gibier. Un tag qui se met en place pour tout stationnement de plus d'une demie heure dans un rayon de 300 m autour des spots de roi par exemple. Ceux qui checkent normalement ne seraient pas gênés, et ceux qui tuent les rois auraient le temps de le faire tranquillement. (si une demie heure ne suffit pas, on peut discuter de plus, ce n'est pas le plus important, ou le temps peut être en fonction de la qualité du roi).

Pour aider nos chers animateurs de ce jeu, je propose de créer un rôle de CSR "spécial Campeur", qui consisterait à faire uniquement la chasse aux campeurs. Je suis certain qu'il y aurait beaucoup de postulants, il suffit juste d'encadrer un tout petit peu la chose. Le CSR "spécial campeur" pourrait taguer les campeurs, et avertir les autres joueurs qui se feraient un plaisir d'aller lui dire bonjour ^^. Le campeur de base, en général, c'est un reroll inconnu, assez statique, voire totalement immobile, muet, facile à différencer des autres joueurs.

#70 [fr] 

t'façon tant que les cerveaux resteront en stand by en laissant les ego prendre le controle on changera rien.

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Osquallo
Les rêveries du yubo flaneur
The musings of the rambling yubo

#71 [fr] 

C'est quoi le rapport entre l'ego, et le fil du forum ?

#72 [fr] 

je dirait que le rapport c'est quand un joueur rapporte tout a lui, a sa façon de jouer et s'accroche a son idée malgré qu'on lui démontre qu'elle n'est ni viable, ni réaliste voir néfaste.....

mais je peut me tromper =)

#73 [fr] 

Zilon (atys)
je dirait que le rapport c'est quand un joueur rapporte tout a lui, a sa façon de jouer et s'accroche a son idée malgré qu'on lui démontre qu'elle n'est ni viable, ni réaliste voir néfaste.....

mais je peut me tromper =)
Si c'est ça tu as raison

Il y a aussi l'orgueil, la jalousie, la fainéantise, la bêtise, et plein d'autres, qui sont possibles sur chaque fil, sur chaque sujet de forum. Et, bien sûr, il s'agit toujours de celle des autres :)
Et ça me fait toujours sourire quand quelqu'un est persuadé d'avoir tout démontré ^^

Pour revenir au sujet :

1) Est ce que le camping est une mauvaise pratique, ou pas ?
Si oui, on s'attaque à la mauvaise pratique
Si non, on arrête ce fil, et on va jouer

2) Si le camping est une mauvaise pratique, comment lutter contre ?
- repérer les campeurs, et les "punir"
- faire des zones de pvp
- taguer ces campeurs de force
- ...

Voila, classique : identification d'un problème, recherche de solution, mise en place des solutions
Je ne vois pas où se place l'ego dans ce processus.

Si la solution est bonne, elle profite au jeu, si elle est mauvaise, elle fera fuir certains joueurs, et ne rien faire, fait fuir aussi des joueurs.
C'est tellement banal tout ça ...
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