IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

In the mission sequence for crafters, crafting master Sterga Hamla displays a very negative impression of the Matis people. Additionally, there are some contradictions in the mission series, all of that creating problems for roleplayers.

The problems are the following:

Matis players get a very negative impression of their own people, being not only arrogant and greedy for power and control, but also egotist and ruthless, endangering the environment of the planet by dangerous experiments. While some drawbacks and flaws of the other peoples are mentioned only casually, few if any positive attributes are mentioned for the Matis people.

Non Matis players are forced to swear allegiance to the Matis nation, an oath they are likely (and heavily influenced by the mission texts) to break at the end of the last mission of that series.

At the end of the series the players are given a pseudo choice pro or counter the Matis, but those choosing the pro Matis path are repeatedly warned that they are doing something wrong and unethical. Indeed, it is no real choice.

I suggest to modify these traits in the mission series, without touching the actions and mechanics of the missions proper, in order to present a more balanced picture of the Matis people. Mainly texts and dialogues would have to be adjusted as following:

1. There should be more mention of the virtues of the Matis which earn them respect among reasonable homins of all peoples, namely a pursuit of excellence and perfection, a sense for aesthetics and harmony, which makes them masters in crafting and gardening.

2. An oath of allegiance should be demanded only from Matis players. Non Matis players should rather be asked to promise not to abuse what they are tought, and not to turn it against the Matis people during their apprenticeship (Sterga Hamla cannot be so irrealistic to assume that he can bind the homins to that for their lifetime).

3. The tendency of the end mission should be changed. Sterga Hamla should tell that he needs the samples sent to the academy in the capital for the purpose that Matis scientists find out what has gone wrong in Silan, in order to find out better ways to control and overcome the rogue plants, and to decide whether such modifications can be made in a safer way or have to be abandoned altogether. It is then up to the player either to trust Sterga Hamla and the Matis or not. The samples should not be given to the Zorai NPC Aryu Ken, but to some Matis NPC replacing him. That one should not display a bad conscience like Aryu Ken, but thank and encourage the player.

+1

Sterga Hamla is depicting the Matis Nation PERFECTLY. Thus it should NOT be changed! I request a POLL!

OOC (I'm now adding this everywhere out of safty):

Why? It's been played and done the same way for years, poking some fun with the matis is part of the game. All that would change is if somebody poked some fun of a new matis is that it would confuse them and they would ask why. Every game has some designated baddies and here we have the matis,marauders and rangers (i'm sure sooner or later those rangers gonna mess up something big)

I decided to RIP this apart!

Take a good look at the Events forums. The Matis players are arrogant, (arrogantly telling me that i distort THEIR history and MY history count for bowine dung.) greedy for power (attempting to exclude all other nations from events) but also egoist and ruthless, (Egoist by being offended and asking for a change of how they are being depicted, ruthless byt not caring how it will affect others who also play here for years.) endangering the environment of the planet by dangerous experiments ( as in the past and now the meeting they are about to have they want to conduct experiments that have been deemed unsafe and dangerous by the Rangers. Completely disregarding the warnings and figures presented.) Yes there are some flaws and drawbacks mentioned for the other nations as well, especially for the Trykers, they a kinda being depicted as little thieving treasure seekers. As for positive attributes, oh yes there are mentions of that too, but you are not paying any attention to it at all. The entire Silan is part of the Old World of the Matis people. The Ruins of Silan is complimenting the great skills the Matis have at architecture and craftsmanship. Geez! All the Fyros get is being hotheaded and always looking for a fight. Thus them being good hunters.

Yes we are forced. We are forced now too to either become Matis Citizens or Karavan Champions to attend their Event. We aren't given the choice of remaining what we are, and enjoy the game together as we would like.


Yes, yet many of the Matis players have chosen to help the Matis and turn a blind eye, I'm sure. But it's how it is. I prefer to have a Choice then to have no other choice but to help the Matis get their ways.

Please make a mention of those Virtues. The fact that the Matis are excellent at Architecture and craftsmanship is already there. What else is there? Being excellent at causing trouble and sparking wars isn't a virtue. And on all 3 of the servers the story line was the a Matis extremist group sparked a war between Matis and Fyros by poisoning the Emperor. The group formed because they felt that the king at the time was becoming 'weak' and unfit to rule. Was not fit to be called Matis.

No oath should be demanded whatso ever. No others demand of you such things. Here again you display irrational 'fear for the safety of the Matis'.

So you would remove our choice, our free will if we want to help the Matis who created those things so they can cover it up? By either giving the Samples to Sterga who will give it to the Academy, or another Matis who will do just the same...


In all this all you are trying to do is COVER UP the fault of the Matis. Not change their nature. So, who is more guilty? The one who commits the murder or the one covering it up?

This being "Ideas for Ryzom", we're out of character by default.

All four nations need to have both positive and negative traits, there is no IF or WHAT, in a game based on role and less on mechanics, you must give the players options to play either the good or the bad guy within the same nation/faction. Matis should not be the designated bad guys any less than the fyros or zorais should be. No faction should be uni-dimensional.

Of course, a raging idiot  like fyros toons would not understand this. How could the fyros understand subtlety, when their very environment is dry and bereft of any variety? It shapes their intellect that way. All they know is how to swing an axe.

(( See? It's so easy to be a racist. Go me. Do I have to specifically mark this as sarcasm, as I'm also fyros? ))

Anyway, to come back at Sterga Hamla and Daomei's proposal, +1 on all counts. He's un-necessarily bitter towards his own people, he's requesting an oath of allegiance with no recourse (this is a tutorial!), and your actions towards plants experiments should indeed be represented as equally desirable, or close to that.

Modifying Sterga Hamla's missions for these reasons would also require modifying Milles' digging missions that disparage the Fyros for using the "Fyros Method" of resource tracking.

From the Lore:

The Matis are friendly—meaning they are no longer trying to conquer and dominate them—toward the Tryker is because they would "rather [be friendly] than risk having them turn to the Fyros again."

The Matis are agitated by the Fyros moving closer to the Kami and "many . . . call for a firmer stand against Pyr and their policy of Kami proliferation."

"The Matis consider the Zoraïs as high-minded homins but whose 'pagan religion' must be kept in check. . . . Many Matis resent this 'debt' [saving King Yrkanis and giving him shelter] to the Zoraïs which they claim has tarnished their honor and their credibility in the eyes of the Karavan."

Sounds like Sterga Hamla is the perfect Matis to me.

I agree with Anzhanto fully!
Finally some else who is well versed in the proper lore.


(((Side note: Oddly enough this Thread is also having (arispotle) in it's root. I'm not making it up...)))

Doesn't everyone know this already? Matis' are the wa... w... greedy and rude, fyros' are shouty, zoraï are bloody suspicious and trykers are lovely!

It's only good people get to know the matis for what they really are from the start. Saves me having to explain my rants.

And I don't mind! You can play this game as a marauder, which is basically someone who spends their days trying to be annoying, or a tryker with 50 fame everything, basically a wonderful person. I don't want to deny people the choice the get picked at for being pasty wa... something that's allowed to go on the forums without a ban that means the same thing.

just one word: rewritting history... better learn from it and change the course of the future, but maybe the problem is that the history which has been laid from the start doesnt fit your ideals of what every race should be.

I think you are somewhat missing the point. Nobody - me at least as the last one - is suggesting to install some kind of political correctness over interracial relations in Atys. Or to make angels out of the Matis or any other people.

It is clear that Matis haters are very comfortable with the presentation of the Matis in the Sterga Hamla quest series, as he presents a very unfavorable of a Matis. Milles is clearly foulmouthed, mocking about all others except the Zorai (and that probably only because they are too boring for her). But she does not present herself in a bad way, rather quite sympathetic. Guilen is a very gentle and nice Fyros, and Nomis is close to a saint. Thus, the presentation of Matis is heavily unbalanced.

And that is the point. Players starting a Matis character should have the possibility to identify themselves with their role. That is hard when the Matis master is an asshole.

I know the Lore quite well, from all three former servers, and there is nothing in my proposal which contradicts it. The Matis have made important contributions to hominity's evolution, and still do. And that is also acknowledged in the Lore.

then we should teach manners to sterga hamla, not history lessons...

and since we like roleplay so much, the place to change missconceptions is by doing the opposite of what sterga offers, can even chose to dissavow her for being a representatvie you'd like to get rid off but cant due to distances or whatever reason you like. i think that the game had this kind of RP well thought out from the start.

Daomei --

I'm sorry to say that I disagree with your overall thrust for this idea. Yes, Sterga Hamla could be toned down just a bit, but I don't think that toning him down a lot would do anything but remove "flavor" from the tutorial. As has been pointed out by several others, the trainers for harvest, fighting and magic portray the stereotypes of their races as well and each does at some point utter a racially biased statement. This is part of the tutorial -- it shows that there is room to roleplay your race (or to react against it).

My first toon (Bittty's "father") was a Matis. He did his best in his time to show that Matis were not all overweening fashionistas who played god with plants. For the majority of his time in Atys he was even a follower of the Kami.

Now Bittty is a cheerful despiser of the archetypal Matis character. It was a Matis clerk who added the extra "t" to his name. He sneers at Sterga Hamla's jingoistic attitudes. To counter that, some of his best friends are Matis. But while he is working on appreciating all nations and religions he still sometimes refers to the "Fyros method" of harvesting ... usually while doing it. And he will always be a Tryker ... that's in the sap that runs in his body. He will always have a touch of the feeling that life is to be lived and that being silly from time to time is a virtue. The Tryker "are a cheerful industrious folk" saith the lore. And a little mercenary and loving, too.

If the Lore on the races is sanitized in Silan, then there are no hints for role-play.

I'm not fond of extremist role-play; I work against is both in and out of character, but a few prejudices and attitudes makes things more realistic.

-- Bittty

i feel that silan is perfect the way it is, save for a few things that i personally would like to see (a tp system to go from camp to the kami of the lake, the ability to own a mount in silan, ect) however as far as the npc's that we interact with now.

we don't need to change silan, we need to have a new group/faction/organization that's the exact oppisite of the marauders, one that can reach 100 fame with all the homin civilizations, then those players can display the "badge" that will allow them to partake in the meeting, then this player can go from that meeting and inform the others on what was said done (we have that in real life, it's called the united nations, let's look at the idea of the UN, and not the fact that it doesn't work as it was first intended to) this is strickly about civ's and shouldn't account for kami / karavan, those are two different things, religion shouldn't be a direct part of politics in any way, separate Ma-duk/Jenna and state all together, it should not be relevant of the governing body what religion you follow, because regardless of what religion you follow, you live in one of the homin civilizations, there for your governed by the ruling body, regardless of if you follow kami/karavan/marauder/neutral.

so as for the change to anything in silan, i think it's ok the way it is, and if the matis rep in silan is a bad one, then perhaps like me your going to delete your matis toon and choose one that seams more friendly and open to everyone (zorai/tryker), because my first toon was matis, right until i started the crafting missions, i stuck it out till the end of them, then decided i didn't want a toon that started the game with a bad rep.

side note: i though somewhere it said that the trykers were slaves to the matis at one time.... not sure about anyone else, but if i was enslaved by a race or group of people, i would not want to be very friendly with them for some time after, and i don't mean a short time either, (i'm american, and we abolished slavery over 100 years ago, but still the effects of that are felt and acted apon, doesn't matter that our current president is afro-american, because the history is there and can't be changed, all we can do is try to work towards a more enlightened way of thinking and grow beyond the history.)

foot note: in real life history is fixed, but this is a game, i know we ALL had our own history on our own servers, but now we're all on one server, so it's time to take 3 histories and make them into one single history, not everything from each server will make the cut, but that doesn't mean anyone has to change play or RP style, just adopt the idea of a single history for everyone, because let's face fact's, ryzom isn't getting 100's of new players, and if we older players can't work this out, we offer too many conflicting stories for a new player to get involved with. the end result is that we'll loose players that might have stuck around to support the game we all love.

and that's my 50 dappers on that (no wonder i'm always broke, i spend it all in the forums)

lol, you just proved Daomei's point...