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#31 Report | Quote[en] 

There would be many aspects to explore. Is the level/quality ladder working well? Does it represent a problem in low population situations? Is it entertaining or plain boring? Is the class-less system fulfilling it's promises? Can players develop and enjoy their own personal style? Is every skill line meaningful? How do they synergize when solo and when in team? Is interaction with ecosystems satisfactory? Are new players receiving the right stimulus in the early stages to crave for more? Is the "world as a system" idea able to provide fun for veterans and newcomers alike? Is it worth paying for, statistically talking? etc

Many possible questions and even more possible answers.

I don't want to answer all of them. Else I would just become a game developer and probably make my own product :p But who knows, maybe Ryzom community is up to the challenge.

-for fun

Last edited by Madre (4 years ago)

#32 Report | Quote[en] 

OK, in my (not really humble) opinion please do NOT mess with Ryzoms classless system. That is one of the reasons I love this game. I will not play a game that is class based. Period.

Yes, there are problems with the bugs and glitches in the game, and in my opinion, that is the only thing that makes this game less than perfect. Other than that, I am willing to tolerate these bugs and glitches.

Also, a few months ago, I had accidentally deleted a character. I had been playing that character for about a year-and-a-half. T comtacted tech support immediately after I had deleted the character. Now, it took about a week, but the dead character had been reincarnated.

THAT, support, although somewhat slow, was a damn good thing, It had saved me from having to was another year-and-a-half to get my character back.

I do not know if another such game would have done this thing, but I think that tech support is a damn fine job.

DAMN... I am rambling again.....oops.... sorry!

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I am a Fyros. What more do I have to say other than that?

#33 Report | Quote[en] 

Xanix
OK, in my (not really humble) opinion please do NOT mess with Ryzoms classless system. That is one of the reasons I love this game. I will not play a game that is class based. Period.

Yes, there are problems with the bugs and glitches in the game, and in my opinion, that is the only thing that makes this game less than perfect. Other than that, I am willing to tolerate these bugs and glitches.

Also, a few months ago, I had accidentally deleted a character. I had been playing that character for about a year-and-a-half. T comtacted tech support immediately after I had deleted the character. Now, it took about a week, but the dead character had been reincarnated.

THAT, support, although somewhat slow, was a damn good thing, It had saved me from having to was another year-and-a-half to get my character back.

I do not know if another such game would have done this thing, but I think that tech support is a damn fine job.

DAMN... I am rambling again.....oops.... sorry!

Yeah, they seem to care about the players here. That is one of the better things about this game. I can tell you some games wouldn't of helped you at all, and could care less, if you quit over it.

#34 Report | Quote[en] 

Madre
There would be many aspects to explore. Is the level/quality ladder working well?

Having done all levels in a time of 3yrs3mths3days (the last figure a bit staged, could have done it in 1 or 2 days but could not resist :)), I dare say, yes. There are some problems, of course. And without permacats it would have taken longer (before the merge I had only 21 levels mastered).
Does it represent a problem in low population situations? Is it entertaining or plain boring?

Depends. I recall a situation when I had all melee fight and off magic levels above 147 (max lvl of stingas) and was practically unable to go ahead without a healer (I found some tricks for ele later, e.g. killing cuttlers in SC down the cliff in OO). It was not easy to find a healer all times - mind that Leanon was much less populated than today's Atys. Some day, I decided to let my little sister Diwu (subbed second account) come down to mainland to support me as a healer and careplanner. That made me somewhat more independent from other players' time schedule. Everytime, I enjoyed cooperation with other players more and preferred it over just playing with my second self (mind that Diwu is a much different RP personality, often disagreeing, teasing, mocking, or scolding me :)).

Yet, if you experience boredom or delay in leveling the 63 skills, create an alt. Even a f2p is fully sufficient for healing and CP.

Is the class-less system fulfilling it's promises? Can players develop and enjoy their own personal style? Is every skill line meaningful? How do they synergize when solo and when in team? Is interaction with ecosystems satisfactory? Are new players receiving the right stimulus in the early stages to crave for more? Is the "world as a system" idea able to provide fun for veterans and newcomers alike? Is it worth paying for, statistically talking? etc

Many questions, a few answers.

Yes, classless system is gorgeous and perfectly great. Having played some other MMO, I would say that it is priceless and absolutely indispensible.
At least I can say that I did develop and enjoy my personal style and still do (so does Diwu, as far as I am entitled to speak for her). Some hate me for, some like it, some may laugh about.
Interaction with ecosystems is unique in the world of MMOs as far as I experienced them. This world has some kind of "real" biology, in fauna and flora, consistent, even scientifically logical, and extremely impressive. I do not know a single other MMO with these features.
I cannot speak for other newcomers. It is now 4,5 years ago that I was a complete newbie to the game. I was fascinated and caught from the first couple of hours on. The feeling of still being a noob did not subside for a couple of years, until I had experienced most of the world, all regions, and completed the skill ladder. Even now, I would not assert to know all of Atys, or to have experienced everything to learn, though my cumulated playtime is too high to publish it.
As to paying for, I considered and still consider it worth while to pay for two subbed accounts. In fact, that is no more expensive than one subbed acc in certain more boring MMOs I played in the past.


Many possible questions and even more possible answers.

I don't want to answer all of them. Else I would just become a game developer and probably make my own product :p But who knows, maybe Ryzom community is up to the challenge.

-for fun

I tried to answer a few of them. Don't know whether it was helpful for you.

Greetings, Daomei

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#35 Report | Quote[en] 

The classless system was a bit deceiving to me. I thought I could find and master my own style but it was more like a list of things to grind, ordered by priority, and then behaving like everybody else (besides roleplaying).

Two characters end up being the same. Hence the question, is it a classless or a single-class game?

I would love to experiment with another layer over the skill system, so a player could orientate a certain character towards a certain style. A matrix where you could substract effectiveness from a certain tree and add it to another one, maybe enabling access to special stanzas. And stanza lines too, or even more basic aspects.

Do you prefer magic over combat? Elemental over healing? Fire over cold? Armor crafting over weapon crafting? Do you want to become Bruce Lee? Maybe the god Loki (madnesssssss)? A shaolin wizard with spiked amps? The fastest runner on Atys? A titanical brute who doesn't know the meaning of accuracy? A weird combination of them?

All skill lines should be meaningful and balanced though, and synergies studied.

- But I want it all in a single character! That's why I like Ryzom!

Can't argue with that :p But I miss being creative. Fun would never end for as long as you want to test new stiles, alone and in teams. And it would still be completely classless.

#36 Report | Quote[en] 

I would love to experiment with another layer over the skill system, so a player could orientate a certain character towards a certain style.

When devs talked about the "new encylopedia" being prepared, they said that we will have new rites that give special abitilies but those rites would exclude each others, so we'll cant have all.

that's still a tiny variation for our toons.

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Beauté, curiosité, virtuosité !

#37 Report | Quote

[EN]
Madre
The classless system was a bit deceiving to me. ..
Two characters end up being the same. Hence the question, is it a classless or a single-class game?

Until 2 characters end up the same way, they have to go a very long way. I know what I am speaking about, and so do the not so many players who also completed the whole skill tree.

Even having done that, I am not nearly such a good digger as several players I know, I am not an equally good crafter as e.g. Lacuna, and I miss any of the PvP abilities e.g. Virg or Zendae possess. I lack access to PR teleporters (at least until the Rangers' rite will be complete).

So I fail to see that we are all alike, the game is too large for that. It took me months to get my tribe fames to my alignment's maximum, or to reach all exploration points. Not few players do not care for those achievements which is perfectly fine.

Surely a change of the skill system as you describe it might work, might even be interesting. Yet I consider such a radical change far too much for the programming and testing manpower available, and not really so interesting and challenging as, say, new continents, missions, bosses etc., and probably a new development of the Lore and ingame history.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#38 Report | Quote[en] 

This would be stuff for an hypothetical experimental server.

Please nobody feel threatened by evil changes :)

#39 Report | Quote[en] 

Personally, the only thing I could see as a gameplay improvement to Ryzom (other than fixing the bugs ofc) is a real time combat system more similar to ESO or its likes. But that's just my personal taste, some people dislike that type of combat.

When I first started playing Ryzom I also felt a bit like that: that underneath all the freedom of a classless skill based system with dozens of skills to choose from, it all boiled down to choosing the 4 or 5 most "optimal" skills to play with and everyone was basically the same.

But that impression was wrong. I think in small scale PVP is where it becomes abundantly clear just how diverse and unique your character's fighting style, crafted gear, mastered skills and stanza building can be. There's no such thing as a "perfect build". Basically you need to be flexible and use different strategies to fight different opponents. As for the stanzas and actions, a player with "inferior" gear who knows how to build effective stanzas for the right situation can easily defeat another one with all the shiny uber stuff.

I suppose in PVE all the nuances of the skills and stanzas may not be as evident, specially when you're in a team with unlimited heal and no real need for concern or strategy. But yea, I don't think all the skills are exactly balanced. Some are clearly more useful than others. But that doesn't concern me so much tbh.

I do believe the grind can be a bit tedious though, specially in the lower levels. I've seen many players who loved the concept and theme of the game, but couldn't deal with the grind and left before mastering their first skill. I'm not sure what could be done to improve that though, short of making a "theme park" option for players to level their first skill branch with a mission-driven storyline - like Silan. But that's hardly a solution for players who really don't like Ryzom's gameplay. It just keeps them around for another month or so.

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"We are Kami. We are here to be you. We are many as you are of many minds. We are one as you are one in Ma-Duk."

#40 Report | Quote[en] 

I was just thinking, and I could be wrong, but I don't know how that is possible, but "the grind" is different from people who just play the game. People who try to get the highest levels possible are very different from the people who just plain like the game and play it as a game, and any levels they achieve are just icing on the cake.

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Water the tree, not the fruit.

#41 Report | Quote[en] 

Most players I think would level all skills, just because you can do that in Ryzom.  I have an alt who will never use melee weapons, relying on bare fists and of course magic.  I have found that this gives an interesting slant on things.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .



Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#42 Report | Quote[en] 

Mjollren
Sometimes I do get the feeling that Ryzom enjoys a captive audience that suffers from Stockholm Syndrome - hence the reactions like in this thread.

ROFL!!!

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#43 Report | Quote[en] 

With age, I came to ask myself the following question about games or simply when doing things in real life: "Am I playing this game, or is the game playing me?"

Grinding just to improve those numbers in your character is a proven recipe for game success. We humans would do anything to rise a number (see autoclicker/idle flash games for instance). Five years? No problem, I will click and reclick and become a master of numbers. If you actually get there you won't be even able to think otherwise since that would mean that you have wasted life on a number. It's like the carrot-pole-donkey propulsion system.

I had the luck to play a game where that "number chase" was really short and you could have a maxed alt in a matter of days (or even hours). Fun was about enjoying different game styles there, alone and with friends. I liked that approach. I like long-term playing too, for as long as it is fun all the way there.

The long and linear level/quality ladder made me wonder about what kind of game Ryzom was.

#44 Report | Quote[en] 

I like the long level/quality ladder in Ryzom.  It gives perspective to have players with a wide range of skill levels.

Grinding is a pain and makes you wonder why you are doing this, but really it is not a bad point on the game.  

Yes grind a few levels to get the next level and upgrade your actions, grind levels to get a certain skill up for a mission or to get fame up so you can buy TPs.  But why be in such a hurry to level up?  If you play without too much grinding and just explore the place at your own speed, levels will come naturally.

I am 4 years into a 10 year plan - Magic and Melee are where I want them for now, all my Fame is OK and I will get to Crafting properly later.  I have some skills mastered and some skills still around 50-60.  I have been grinding some skills but when it is not necessary I prefer to just explore and help others with NPC hunts, Boss hunts etc.  Sometimes I just sit and watch.

And when you have all 63 skills mastered, it only means your training is finally over.  That's when you can relax and enjoy life on Atys.

I don't think of Ryzom as a game to be finished, because it isn't like that. Atys is a place to be.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Arfur (4 years ago)

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .



Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#45 Report | Quote[en] 

Madre
Is the class-less system fulfilling it's promises? Can players develop and enjoy their own personal style? Is every skill line meaningful? How do they synergize when solo and when in team? Is interaction with ecosystems satisfactory?

I tend to favor "classless" games like GURPS, Shadowrun and Ryzom, both despite and because all characters eventually wind up all skills. I like to be limited by my own efforts to develop in a particular direction rather than by some arbitrary mechanic.

Of course, just because all characters can end up the same, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for style. Given that it takes years to master every skill, that style is most often expressed by what path one chooses; which skills one masters first. There are some master diggers out there with practically no combat skills. There are more than a few that are all about the tanking who have low dig and craft skills too.

As for how well they synergize, I think they got that handled fairly well. Casters need many HP so that they can use HP credits to cast the big spells, so they gain great benefit from working their melee skills. Conversely, melee is easier with enchants, often of spells that require high magic skills to unlock. Crafting takes enough mats that it's simply not practical to get into crafting unless you work your digging skills; all crafters are diggers. But the best gear often requires Named/Boss mats, which in turn requires you to be good in a fight.

In team situations, you often have roles that leave some leeway in how to perform them. Some like the slow, hard-hitting two-hand weapons while others prefer the one-handers with their high HPM and superior Adversary Dodge modifier. Some casters go for cheaper single spells to conserve HP/Sap while others prefer to max out and rely a little more on the rest of the pod to heal them. Some teams trek like ninjas, carefully weaving between mobs, while some go through like a river of lava destroying all in their path. Even two toons with identical skills will be quite different based on style.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.
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