IDEAS FOR RYZOM


Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun
13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Placio, Wirroy, Yper, Zendae
9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau
1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper
3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia
1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#82 [en] 

Placio
Ok, we are WAAAAAAyyyy off topic talking about the fame micro transactions.

The original idea is still to impose game mechanics that prevent players with opposing fames from cooporating while PvP tagged... Which would probably reduce PvP even more...

It can reduce PVP, but it doesn't have to, placio.

The idea is to promote more factional PVP. This can be done in 2 ways, as far as I know: Preventing killing homins of your own faction (very restrictive), or creating incentives through fame to make PVP possible between your faction, but leaving the decision to the homin.

What is better now?

Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

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#83 [en] 

Heernis
My idea on the matter is that you switch back to faction based PVP when you're labeled. So that means:

1) Kamis attack Karavan and Marauders, but can't be attacked by Rangers, except in a Karavan or Marauder's team.
2) Karavans attack Kamis and Marauders, but cannot attack Rangers, except on a team of Kamis or Marauders.
3) Rangers attack Marauders only, but cannot be attacked by Karavan or Kamis, except in team with Marauders.
4) Marauders attack Kamis, Karavan and Rangers, as well as all 3 can attack Marauders. (Addition: Marauders can attack each other)

Since it depends on fame, all of them under fame 25 or above -25 cannot be involved in any fight.

Your goal may be to promote PvP, but your proposal was to restrict whom is able to attack/heal who.

#84 [en] 

Placio
Heernis
My idea on the matter is that you switch back to faction based PVP when you're labeled. So that means:

1) Kamis attack Karavan and Marauders, but can't be attacked by Rangers, except in a Karavan or Marauder's team.
2) Karavans attack Kamis and Marauders, but cannot attack Rangers, except on a team of Kamis or Marauders.
3) Rangers attack Marauders only, but cannot be attacked by Karavan or Kamis, except in team with Marauders.
4) Marauders attack Kamis, Karavan and Rangers, as well as all 3 can attack Marauders. (Addition: Marauders can attack each other)

Since it depends on fame, all of them under fame 25 or above -25 cannot be involved in any fight.

Your goal may be to promote PvP, but your proposal was to restrict whom is able to attack/heal who.

Please be more practically. What bad can happen? We have allready this fame system on tribes or? What would happen, if it would be also Chars?

Yes this was the idea in the quote, but if you read everything i wrote, it wouldnt the idea from the beginning. Why dont brainstorming about it? If it doesnt suit, why dont try another idea?

Ok please tell me, if you have another idea. Just saying "NO" doesnt help really.

Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#85 [en] 

I did provide the reason why I don't think its necessary, and I suggested an alternative that PvP point calculation could be changed to give less or no points if mortal enemies ally.

Its just that this thread has continued so long and produced some subtopics that it might as well be in the general discussions forum and not the ideas :D

Last edited by Placio (6 years ago)

#86 [en] 

Placio
I did provide the reason why I don't think its necessary, and I suggested an alternative that PvP point calculation could be changed to give less or no points if mortal enemies ally.

Its just that this thread has continued so long and produced some subtopics that it might as well be in the general discussions forum and not the ideas :D

Thanks for remembering. Added your quote to the first post ;-)

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#87 [en] 

i would prefer the pvp system to be as wide open as possible. That is, if you are tagged, you can attack anyone not in your team or league, and get pvp points if you win. Players can add in any factional RP elements themselves, it doesn't need to be enforced by game mechanics.

#88 [de] 

Btw, someone can explain the following:

Let's take 2 toons both in the same guild and both tag.
Toon A is not team nor league.
Toon B is in a team and league.

Why they can't heal each other ? Because the actual system is perfect, is that the answer ?

#89 [en] 

Heernis
Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

I am afraid that this will also bring the following:
- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

If you want to get fame involved, I would prefer just loosing a small amount of fame for attacking "wrong" target. No gain from PvP at all.

Last edited by Moniq (6 years ago)

#90 [en] 

Little note, in the current Ryzom, PvP points has absolutely no.. point :P
Most of the time to buy crystal, but that all.
(Which you can do with nations points if you aren't marauder)

Items aren't interesting / good enough to push people to fight for it (aka for points).

Also brainstorming on the main idea, to derivate to another (good to better) idea is very welcome and civilized for once.
Do not denigrate it Placio please.

Moniq
I am afraid that this will also bring the following:

- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

- With any system it will be the case, because it is how pvp game work, its a risk, and its human based.
- Btw the current idea do not bring this, de facto it exist already since Ryzom introduced PvP.

So don't be too afraid i think :)

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#91 [en] 

That's another part of why I don't PvP much. I have crystals and special picks from occupations, so I have no need to PvP for anything other than OPs or to guard my teammates as they dig sups. While others may have RP reasons to attack others, I do not; I fight only in defense.

@Sinvaders - Because Ryzom :)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#92 [en] 

Moniq
Heernis
Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

I am afraid that this will also bring the following:
- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

If you want to get fame involved, I would prefer just loosing a small amount of fame for attacking "wrong" target. No gain from PvP at all.
I understand, that this can come to abuse, but the NH-selling is abused as well. So what? If you like to prefent this, forbid by CoC Twinks/Alts logged in at the same time ^^ On my opinion Alts/Twinks logged in at the same time as the Main is the real Cave, where all these misuses comes from.Ok back to the topic. Losing fame by killing the wrong target is good. I guess it should be under study to test the real consequences and adjuste and balaance it ( mean gain and loose fame in PVP-Actions), that should be the first step.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#93 [en] 

Heernis
Losing fame by killing the wrong target is good. I guess it should be under study to test the real consequences and adjuste and balaance it ( mean gain and loose fame in PVP-Actions), that should be the first step.

Until we can all agree on the definition of "wrong target" though, that first step is going to be problematic. For me, if you initiate aggression against me or my teammates, you are the right target regardless of who you swear allegiance to. And I doubt I am teh only one who feels that way either.

Oh, and you might want to avoid using the word "twink" unless you intend to offend. That word has different meanings to other parts of the world, and is considered quite vulgar in some places.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#94 [en] 

Gidget
My two dappers;

It has gotten boringly quiet and stupefyingly stagnant as of late. Things have to change. However, any changes to the game have to consider not only the lore but also the players. All of them. Not everyone has the same motivations or hot buttons though, so if we want Ryzom as a whole to do well, we must all keep that in mind instead of assuming that our little bubble is The Only Correct Way. That sort of thinking will result in factional PvP alright, but of an OOC type rather than in-game where it belongs. I also firmly believe the old idiom, "You can't go home again.", so I have reservations about trying to go back to a place that can never exist again.

Now, here is a crazy idea, but also serious food for thought; as there have been a lot of folks crossing the traditional lines, why not rethink what "faction" really means and figure out a way to make "Alliance vs Alliance" work? Worlds evolve, so why shouldn't Atys? We can't go back, and holding the brakes isn't working, so why not go forward? Why can't we have a new paradigm?

Sadly, I don't have any real specific thoughts on how to do that right now, but I figured I'd at least try to throw out an idea of how to reignite the spark that seems to have been lost in the hopes that it will, at worst, serve as a catalyst for someone else to put a little flesh on that framework.
Heernis
You decide a side and fight for something higher... ranger for balance...
And that is part of why I am the way I am ;)
I think that rethinking the deadlocked roles of religions and nations is also worth thinking about, but that misses the point. All factions and nations have an enemy: the Kititns. As long as the Kitins are there, there will be more focus and peace among each other. What we would need after this consideration is a final scenario for the extinction of the Kitins and a new enemy that doesn't come from the inner Atys, but awakens from the consequence of the imbalance. This new enemy is not an enemy of all. One can ally oneself with this, but in a different way as with the factions now. No new altars or troops, but an enemy that is invisible and almost unbeatable. So basically new content to really revive PVP.
Or the weakest 2 factions die out, are subject to the Kitin invasion and are wiped out after a long and intense battle. Only the last remnants remain as ruins, faith a relic of earlier times.
Perhaps a combination of both? The new threat destroys factions from invasion to invasion? Until the strongest survives? Some survive by betrayal and convert to the enemy, some join the strongest faction, from a wiped out faction. All faction battles become pointless, but the new enemy connects the homins, but also divides them. A new chapter in the history of Atys.

The new enemy or the kititns will attack the OPs frequently till they win, or the enemy will be maybe overpowerd, but have only 1 little weakness?

Ok thats not related to the main topic, but this could be also revive PVP. But in this case, all will be forced to do PVP against the new enemy or Kitins.

Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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#95 [en] 

What you consider "missing the point", I see as "addressing a root cause", so it's a matter of perspective :)

We could have that sort of "Survival of the fittest" reduction of factions, or there could be a simple restructuring that leaves us with as many factions as we currently have but along different lines. After so long without a decent Kitin invasion, even they are now merely a nuisance; more of a navigational hazard to PR diggers than actual threat to hominity at large.

I like your idea of a new enemy that both connects and divides homins. Maybe there could be a sect or two of Traditionalists who seek to restore Ma'Duk and/or Jena to their previous prominence on an Atys where so many have abandoned them. Figure, neither Rangers nor Marauders are particular reverent towards either. Marauders don't even bother using the teleporters that the Kami/Karavan provide, preferring their own independent network. And if the rootball went sideways enough for people to rely more on hominity than divinity, the societal upheaval caused by such a massive loss of faith could lead to some interesting RP as well.

If control of OPs were insecure enough that you didn't have to wait for some homin to spend millions of dappers to declare a war in order to face the risk of losing it, we might see a little more action. Having them come knocking around 0200 UTC so us West coast Americans don't feel left out would also be nice.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#96 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Deutsch
Basically, this part of the forum is there to talk about ideas that can improve Ryzom, so I think this turn in brainstorming isn't wrong. You just think in all directions that fit the topic.

Because of the small number of players, 4 factions are rather counterproductive, in my humble opinion, but other players I talk to also see it that way. If there were more players, it wouldn't be worth mentioning. We have to consider making player-based decisions and fighting power a relic of the past and moving forward.

Let's take a possibility:

There can be a hidden King of the Kitins who has been discovered by whoever. He controls all other Kitins mentally in his environment. All homins join together to eliminate him in a final battle. This does not succeed. 2 factions are as good as rubble due to the constant attacks on their temples/camps (These factions cease to exist, there are only the obedient homins left who still have the title). One discovers Goo modified Kitins, which are similar to the Homins and have to live deeply in exile by the King, which can communicate by thought transmission. These are rebels in the ranks of the Kitins and want to depose the king. Can they be trusted? The Homins are badly wounded. A representative of the united homins is available as an informant for the coup of the Kitin king. The last two factions and the survivors of the other factions, as well as the exiled Kitin hominids, join forces. The camps/temples are devastated... Only one faction survives, the Kitin King is defeated. Now there are the other Homins other factions that can still carry the title of old factions, but there are no NPC representatives left. What could follow? The Hominoden Kitins will stand against the Homins after a successful coup by the King, but give them the opportunity to convert to the Kitins (as a faction) or be wiped out. Some become traitors and some stay with the Homins. How will you decide? Will you remain loyal to your faction or will you join the new enemy or the remnant of the remaining "Homin faction"?

Such a scenario could look like this.

Last edited by Heernis (6 years ago)

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