ОБЩИЙ

We get it Beef. You grinded your alts. That is not the case with everyone who is using 4 toons though. Also, following the rules doesn't apply to everyone using 4 toons either, because it's pretty obvious, they aren't.

Let's all stop playing victim and maybe try to come to a proper solution.

The recently imposed change of 1 main + 1 alt for ops/bosses/w.e. doesn't really make any sense to me to be completely honest. Not only can it not really be enforced and will have loopholes, but it definitely does "stop people from playing Ryzom how they want." Here's why...

First off, the real challenge to bosses are finding them, NOT killing them. This also applies to npc bosses, even though they are of course easier to find since they only pop in one spot. PvE in this game is not a challenge, and I'm not saying this to demean Ryzom in any way, it is simply a fact. The only real issue is Outpost PvP battles, which decide which faction is the "strongest". The problem is the faction who brings out the most alts is deemed the strongest, so setting a couple macros on multiple toons and spamming 3 keys making you the "strongest" and/or "most skilled" is pretty silly.

In my honest opinion, the only way the issue gets resolved, is if there is a change in OP battles, ALONE. Anybody who has played long enough knows that alts are not a threat in any other aspect of the game. PvE... nobody cares what you do here, or they shouldn't, because in all reality having to use so many alts to kill a boss is utterly useless. Most bosses in the game can be killed with 2 total toons using proper methods. If I see anybody with that many alts or even a full team for a boss, it's actually laughable.

My proposed change is that Outpost Battles have a player cap. Simply make it so each side on the OP battle can only have a certain amount of toons tag up for either side. If outpost battles were limited to 30 vs 30 for example, it wouldn't matter who is using how many alts because the playing field will be guaranteed to be even. This will allow the most skilled and/or most organized faction to be the victor.

I believe the only problem in PvP in this game is in OP battle dynamics, as it's usually the faction who brings the most alts that wins. Yes, opposing factions can organize and and use certain tactics that make alt play uncomfortable, but the remaining fact is that 50 toons standing still and healing (whether alts or not) are very difficult to bring down with half the number of players who choose to not pay2win with alts. It's 100% certain that no faction in this game has 50 actual players showing up to wars, except in some unusual cases, like the beginning of a global pandemic.

I think the "attack" on players who like to use 4 toons to play this wonderful game we all love was incorrect and unfair, because the issues are from the game itself, not the playerbase, and I do believe making a change such as the one I've just proposed will not only allow Ryzom players to continue to play however they want, but also bring a new and interesting dynamic to OP battles and the power swings on Atys.

My proposed change will allow Kami, Karavan, Marauder, Neutral, Ranger players.. whatever your faction may be to BRING THE BEST IN YOUR FACTION TO THE WARS, be it someone with 4 toons or someone who excels with a single toon. Let's bring the real beauty of gaming to Atys, which is practicing your fighting methods and techniques to become better, as a player, as teams, and as factions.

edits were to highlight important parts :)

We can fill the CoC with more gems like this:


So what is "too long" to hold a minion? There is a disctinction between 2 toons holding a minion and 2 toons holding the boss directly? If 2 toons are trying to hold a minion the boss can not be stolen but if one player with 2 toons wants to hold Lixie until their entire faction arrives that can be done? I notice these questions were never answered.

So here we are in Ryzom, making increasingly convoluted rules that are open to be dissected by a team of lawyers and nobody really knows what they are allowed to be doing until they get banned for breaking a rule that is open to various interpretations.

Why? Because *some* people are complaining.

Before adding anything related to the "lock" into the CoC they should first fix it.

I wish there was some way to make everyone happy. But I know realistically that just isn't going to happen. At this point we're just beating a dead horse. But perhaps some of these idea for Ops should be posted in the Ideas forum?

I will say though, that limiting the number of toons at an OP or not allowing new guild members (as was mentioned much earlier in this thread) makes me sad when I think about it. My first experience with PVP EVER was an OP battle. I was still a very young homin, hadn't even hit 125 in ele yet and was a pretty new Reaper, probably less than a month. Jayce and Sehraci got me to go. I died a lot but it was so much fun. After that I started tagging up and becoming active in the faction. I guess it was kinda a gateway drug ;) I don't know, I guess I just think it would be really sad to have to leave young homins out of something.

i have only now noticed the discussion and i am very happy about this change of direction. the "affected" babble about the fact that it doesn't make a difference if you control another one or 3 chars. i find this completely ridiculous. everybody sees that you are nothing more than unpunished bot users. you talk about "investing" in your chars. you have cheated with your chars over the years and talk about "investing" and now you are treated unfairly? you should be banned directly. Just the supposed defense that this is all happening because of the complaints of the few. Maybe the few complain, but I can assure you that it is a thorn in the side of many. Of course there are other rules to refer to now, but let's start with the obvious ones.

Really ? everybody ? I actually find that a bit hard to believe

Actually I find it hard to believe that Xaco read the entire thread.

Beeficus was thoroughly checked out and exonerated - at no point was he using any kind of bots or scripts.

Get the facts before casting accusations.

Oh except he goes around telling people he does and how he fooled CSRs about this ^_^.

CSRs can't actually "thoroughly check you out", they can only examine the material you provide them yourself, and that alone makes a difference. You can draw your own conclusions. Also there is no way to prove whether your whole extended family is playing the toons you spent years building up or if its you controlling them with key cloners :o


...


Evidently it does not matter. In the end, it's been about 3 months since the topic got published (8 years since discussion started?) and nothing has happened (nor will it happen).

So keep enjoying your bots freely :-)



Let's make Ryzom great again.

Bonjour à tous ! Désoler de relancer le truc mais ...

Pourquoi avoir interdit le multibox sur OP, Boss maraud et évenement et pas sur changements de saison? Déjà qeue nous sommes pas beaucoup à y participer dans les zones pvp mais si on se tape des team de 15 en face avec des joueurs a 4 compte ... Ca va ENCORE dégouter tout le monde.

Le multiboxing a étais "interdit" pour pas qu'un camp prennent l'avantage gracee à ça mais sur les changements de saison .. l'avantage est quand même monstrueux.

Personnellement l'interdire sur boss, roi .. si ils sont untag pvp je trouve pas ca dérangant ca empêche pas les autres de joué .. Mais sur les activités principalement PVP la c'est problèmatique.

Merci de m'avoir lu :)

Yeah, ban those evil alts. Ban alts from using picks. Ban alts from PvP zones. Ban people from talking about alts. Ban the alt key. Take a screwdriver and rip it from your keyboard. Why not? Just ban any problem that upsets a kami, real or imagined. That always works out so well for the game.

What's the matter Oxxy? You dont have enough sups? Did Mathimat come along and dig something you wanted? Or are you just laying awake at night sweating and worrying about alts?

Ce n'est pas ce que je dis Beef .. Ca m'arrive de jouer a 3 ou 4 compte pour forer ou pve je vois aucun soucis avec ca :) Je dis juste que si c'est interdit sur des activées boss maraud, roi, etc et pas sur changement de saison c'est pas correcte.

La seul chose qui me dérange c'est de ramener 4 personnages pour pvp alors que l'équipe en question est déjà équilibré ou en surnombre. C'est uniquement pour gagner avec 0 fair-play.

Lache l'affaire Oxxy, ils s'en battent le coquillard du "pas fair-play de combattre avec 4 alts qui healent en meme temps".

Je me doute Sin .. Mais c'est quand même relou .. A la base je compter pas relancer le sujet mais les GM en DM mon dis de faire comme ca ..

Oxxy somewhat has a point. The situation s/he talks about gave the impression that there was one person with 3 or 4 alts as heal support. That does make an uneven and un-enjoyable playing ground in PvP situations.

So just to summarize:

The Marauders are accusing the Kamis of breaking the alt rules, both openly and using account-sharing, for bosses, NPC bosses and OP battles.
The Kamis are accusing the Marauders of doing the same.
There are fingers being pointed, bans being handed out and rescinded, endless drama and headaches all around.
Every faction has lost players as a direct result of changes to the CoC regarding alts.
Since this time last year, there is as of right now less balance between factions, more drama and accusations than ever and more work and headaches for the devs and for the support team.

It might be time to admit that this was a bad idea, made for bad reasons and badly implemented.