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Allowing players to do whatever they want ... is not a way for designing a game.

Your disagreement comes down to a fundamental difference in the purpose of a guild.

For the sandbox player, a guild is just "a chat channel with a common vault for storage". Whatever value is there in a guild, it arises from the quality of the human relationships built. They would naturally accept different faction alignments in the same guild.

For the roleplayer, a guild is a means to enforce a coherent world, stemming from the lore. Therefore, a guild is an in-game organisation, that follows certain restrictions willingly. These restrictions flow from the guild to the individual members, not as "artificial restrictions" (as Heernis puts it), but as accepted limitations that align with that character's RP!

Of course, these views are NOT compatible.

And of course, this is a GAME DESIGN choice, that shouldn't be open to amending following forum votes. We can examine the effects of the current system versus a potentially new one, but there is no point talking unless we acknowledge why there is a difference in the first place.

Here we go again with the good old "this is not real life". Let me tell you something. While you are technically correct, there is a human being pulling the strings of every homin. And if my years of playing Dungeons and Dragons and other RPGs have taught me anything, it's that people often give their characters some elements of their personality. This is no different.

I actually like the game's lore. And I wouldn't have gone marauder (I could have stayed neutral and still joined my guild) if their attitude of not caring for race, just strength, didn't appeal to me. The faction strongly reminds me of how historically, some pirates had more progressive rights and even things like insurance way before "civilized society". I was Kami for a long time because the faction appealed to me as well - the whole "protect the planet" thing. Until it was irreversibly poisoned for me by certain players and I left the faction, as well as the game for several years.

I can't speak for all of us non-RP players. But I'm not trying to take your lore away. I'm not trying to take your PvP away, either, despite what some people like to make it look like. If you enjoy it, great! Good for you! I don't think any less of you because of it. All I ask in return is that you extend the same understanding and tolerance to me, but you refuse to. All I hear from certain people is "your fun is wrong" and I'm constantly met with mockery and condescension. Again, just because I dare ask for a way to opt out of certain aspects of the game.

The truth is, I don't know what Ryzom was originally advertised as, or what it was like at launch. I wasn't around for that. But I know what the game is like now. As I keep saying, there are people on Atys with vastly different playstyles. Except some of us are willing to tolerate the others and some less so.

I keep hearing about how this "carebear" style of play is "killing the game". How about you people think about how many potential players you have driven off over the years with your attitude for once? I can guarantee it's quite a number. At least a dozen of my own friends don't play anymore because of how nasty the community can be and that makes me sad. There are very few homins on Atys. We should be trying to make our time in the game enjoyable for each other, not ruin it. I'm willing to do that for you. But you're not willing to do the same for me and that's the crux of this whole problem.

Pour résumer, il y a ceux qui s'en foutent de la lore et pensent jouer à un MMO, et ceux pour qui la lore est importante et pensent jouer à un MMORPG.
On peut toujours se voiler la face, mais les deux sont incompatibles. Car tout ce qui contrevient à la lore va gêner les RPistes, tout ce qui est lore va gêner les non RP.

Une solution? Deux serveurs, un RP, un autre WTFYW
Le problème? On n'a pas assez de sous pour faire deux serveurs, ni assez de bénévoles. Donc on va continuer de se tirer la bourre jusqu'à ce que l'un ou l'autre des camps en ait marre et se barre. Pour l'instant, c'est plutôt les RPiste qui se cassent. Hélas...

Autre solution? Que les proprios du jeu et tous les bénévoles et salariés (bref, ceux qui font vivre le jeu) assument et disent enfin une bonne fois pour toute ce qu'est ryzom: un MMO ou un MMORPG?

Sinvaders

Allowing players to do whatever they want ... is not a way for designing a game.

Neither is having one group of players tell everyone else, "If you do not play the way I play then you are not welcome/allowed here!", especially not when that group of players is so offensive that they drive players from the game in droves. And if you find tolerance offensive enough that you would uninstall a game over being told you cannot control other humans, then that's on you.

I think it is important to realize that the proposal was to remove mechanics that have always existed ingame- simply because people disagree for RP reason does not mean that they are creating new RP rules for everyone to follow.

I hope we can keep this from devolving into tit-for-tat posts as the idea is not very serious- Even the player that proposed it did not vote "Yes" in his own survey...

On a la chance d'avoir un jeu avec une lore riche, un environnement magnifique, et certains veulent n'en faire qu'un jeu de pexeur sans lien avec la lore? C'est quoi ce jeu, candy crush? Y'a des tas de jeu en HTML5 pour faire lvl up son perso sans s'embarrasser de l'histoire, de la lore, du rp. Ce serait (c'est) un gâchis sans nom que de casser ça.

Mais bon, continuez les anti rp, continuez, et peu à peu, ceux qui font avancer le jeu vont partir. Parce que bon, on va pas se leurrer hein, c'est pas les anti rp qui font avancer le jeu. C'est tous les bénévoles derrières qui restent et tentent encore de faire des event parce qu'ils croient toujours que le RP n'est pas mort, c'est les dév qui s'essaient à des choses en lien (plus ou moins) avec la lore. Le jour où ils craqueront, le jeu sera fini. Et vous aurez gagné, un jeu vide, creux, sans saveur. Vous serez content alors, à monter vos lvl, à chasser les cadeaux et les oeufs, et jouer à la roue. Ouep, c'est sûr que c'est le genre de jeu qui attire du monde.... (ironie)

Alors que si on arrête de favoriser tous ces anti rp, qu'on arrête de faire des trucs contraire à la lore, on va certes faire fuir une certaines catégories de personnes, mais avec la richesse de la lore qu'on a, on va pouvoir attirer tous les RPistes, tous ceux qui se sont barrés parce que le rp était mort.

A vous de voir quel jeu vous voulez. Mais une chose est sûr, il va falloir choisir. Parce que la patience des rpistes va finir par être réduite à peau de chagrin. Alors posez vous bien la question: qui voulez vous favoriser?

Collecting eggs for Christmas is nice, but would never bind me to Ryzom.

If the die-hard role-players continue to blindly follow old traditions, they might miss the train for the new traditions that are developing in parallel.