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Virg, I read your post, and I read the lore.

Could you please read the paragraph I copy-pasted from the Lore page ?
Pretty please ?

Marauders of the New Lands refer to the 2nd group you were mentioning.

See, I copy-paste it again : Many of the Marauders of the New Lands have served a nation in their past, but, disappointed by their leader and the chafing of the constraints of living under the rule of civilized government, have chosen to break away.

you can find that here : http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/puben/wiki/L_Marauder_Civilization

This is the definition of the faction by the very creators of the faction.
How can this not be a core value ?
Please explain that to me ?
It's a defining value of the marauder faction.

"Many of the marauders of the new lands"... is that all of them? No.

I ask once again.. what is a nation? For me a nation is a bond and a tie through memories, history and ancestry. I feel strongly bound to the fyros nation even now. I also feel bound to the zorai nation.

I fight for the nations themselves. To protect and save them. I fight against the governments that poison and corrupt the nation.

Lore is changed. altered, adjusted - in a living game - we can add to what is there - there is precious little anyway - and any civilization would work to integrate and accommodate all people / homins - and definitely not "label" all the members of any group with same negative traits

I refer to in group/out group and the roots of fascism again ...

Just adjust this narrow label to accommodate difference and look for the similarities

And what better way of integrating some of these marauders than to take them into a guild and give them lots of love and care

This is nothing - we are talking about genocide of a multinational organization here in this land

In French, the term "nation" refers to a "nation-state".
And since the authors of the lore are Frenchspeaker, I'll play it safe and bet on a hasty translation of the original version into English.

Let's expand on that and let me copy-paste the French version (tant qu'à faire) : Les Maraudeurs des Nouvelles Terres rejettent également les Homins des Nouvelles Terres. Beaucoup parmi eux ont dans leur passé servi leur nation, mais, déçus par celle-ci, ont choisi de s'en détacher.

In French, it is said that the marauders were let down by their "nation" (- déçus par celle-ci-, literally means "disappointed by it" (it being the "nation")). The funny fact is that there is no mention of constraints or of governments in French. Maybe the English translator felt it was needed to give some more explanations ? It would be interesting to have an official stance on this, especially since core explanations are so different o_O.

Anyway, this does in no way invalidates your way of seeing thing, which is actually interesting and answers to the core value of the Marauders : You are saying that you wish to destroy all the governments, which are sources of poison and corruption. So it means that you actually are the ennemy of every citizen that accept such government.

Then it means that you are actually breaking away from every governement/civilisation/nation, right ?

So you are actually defending not your way, but the way of some other people who decided that Marauders should be able to live in the civilized areas, under the rule of governments ?
Please correct me if I am wrong.

Please Binarabi, stop using he word genocide in this context. It is disrespectful. What is happening here in a "virtual" game (and I stress on "virtual") does not compare with a genocide at all. Nobody is actually dying. The term genocide should be used when there is an actual genocide, so it does not lose its strength and its importance.

Same goes for racism. There are human beings suffering from that IRL. I don't think you are actually helping anybody by applying it to a discussion about the gameplay of a video game during a discussion on an Internet forum. If you feel like you actually need to fight against racism, I invite you to go to your local Anti-racism association and learn more about what they do and actually help them in any way you can.

Some words are not to be toyed with.

j'espère que nous aurons une réponse "plus officielle" avant la fermeture de ce sujet.
Merci d'avance :)

To those who are calling for "official" intervention, some comments:

If your point of view (that Marauders should not be a part of any aligned guild) is so correct, then Marauders will NOT be a part of any aligned guild; the Guild Leaders who absolutely control membership will not let them join or will kick them out if some officer accidentally invites them. In fact I am in agreement with that point of view. I would never invite a PvP'er to join the pacifistic Phaedrea's Tears. If you are a Kamist Matis guildleader, however, who sees in the Marauder a kindred revolutionary that you think you can "use" to gain power over your enemies in the Nobility, feel free to invite her and take the political consequences.

If your point of view is that Guild Leaders should be *forced* (via game mechanics) not to allow Marauders into the guild, then I stand against that. Let Guild Leaders choose their form and level of roleplay and choose who shall be a member and who shall not. Let the sandbox be free to evolve. (I am actually in opposition to the Nation restrictions as well -- not sure about the religious ones: I don't want either party (Jena or Ma-duk themselves) directly intervening in Atys.

Max once again you just jump from governments to organizations. The two are seperate entities they are not interchangable.

Look into real life examples: Mobsters and gangsters. Heck even companies like Nike. They are organizations. They are multi-national.. They are not a government.. They can be anti-government or they arent..

Tbh I am just tired of this. Just try and understand my last posts please.

T'es chaud patate Maximus ! C'est beau !
Mais tu sais (enfin j'imagine que tu le sais) ça ne sert pas à grand chose d'en parler (enfin j'admire le fait que tu n'abandonne pas ..) avec "eux". Tout ce qu'ils veulent c'est jouer "comme des potos" quitte à laisser complètement tomber les fondations du jeu.
Par ailleurs, vu que ce poste va sans doute être surveillé par les gms/anims, j'attends toujours une réponse de la part de l'équipe d'anim :D (et merci d'avance).

Wait, so it's a case of 'them and us'?
This discussion is over then... we will continue to play however we like as you will, in turn, play however you like.

I think also this has to be clarified.

A patriot may be close friend with zorai, he cannot enter a zorai guild, while a marauder can.

Nothing can prevent you subtle way of interpreting the marauder's lore. But it has to be in the same gameplay limits than others.

OR ... free all the limitations. In a way it could be more realistic, but it's a high risk to flatten the game.

Maybe the guild fame could be more usefull in game's mechanics. And mixed guild would have strong penalty on it's fame, preventing them to do this without a deep willing.
For exemple the guild fame could influence the price to declare op war. This is just a exemple, and not enough to my point of view.

Ah ... C'était mieux avant quand même !

I have taken the time to write an in-depth coverage of what roleplay I choose to follow. I actually think this roleplay is far less superficial than many of the "hardcore" roleplayers. I do not follow the lore like I bible but I do not think the lore should be followed like a bible- this is a sandbox game. Do not tell others how to play with their sand- essentially you are trying to impose your own RP restrictions on others- others who aren't even in the same faction as you! It is ridiculous! (I know I have recently asked Zendae to change the RP of an event but that is an entirely different matter, one OC, and I will not go into that discussion here).

Have a think of what a "lore" actually is. It is not written in stone and it certainly is not something to be followed down to the last word. I think you guys get way to hung up on the lore- it is not a rulebook! Have a look at a few definitions online and maybe then you might understand more.

Bonjour,

je pense, que si on se place sur un plan Strictement RP on peut envisager d'utiliser les mots "racisme" et "génocide".
Toutefois, je suis d’accord, quand on utilise abusivement un mot il s'use et perd de sa force. Aussi, devons nous user avec prudence et beaucoup de circonspection de ces deux mots...

Aussi, si on se place sur un plan strictement RP:

1/ ce post n'est pas à la bonne place!
2/ on ne peut plus se référer au "game play" et se plaindre de l'ostracisme de nobles Matys par exemple(en therme RP)
3/ les maraudeurs sont par nature (du moins c'est ma compréhension RP) le deuxième fléau à éradiquer après les kitins pour toutes les factions et toutes les nationalités. Leur moteur de base est de tuer ou réduire en esclavage tous ceux qui ne sont pas Maraudeur ou pas suffisamment fort pour leur résister (ne me jeter pas de cailloux, pacti). Bien sure, cela n'interdit pas les relations inter-avatar. [HRP]Par exemple, ma guilde et moi même avons eu des relations suivies avec certains avatars représentant la sève noire ce qui a créé des souvenirs RP précieux. J'ai pexer avec Nizyros père de la meilleur amie et marraine de Peat'Pom (elle sera peut être tondue pour cela...) mais n'oubliez pas que nous sommes neutre, souvent citoyen d'Atys et Gnost[/HRP]

l'équilibre RP/GP est quelque chose de difficile à trouver je le sais bien...
Aussi, soyons tolérants... mais n'abusons pas de la tolérance, car l’extrémisme adore la tolérance des autres qu'il sait parfaitement exploiter à son avantage. L'histoire et le présent regorgent malheureusement d'exemples qui en témoignent, je parle ici de la vraie vie avec des morts et de humains brisés sans possibilité de rez ou de rename...

amitier