English

Rik could you rename the thread to a lengthy battle of words between freddy and nehriey!! ̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(◕_◕)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿

rofl :)))

For starters the GMs could actually take away the farmed items of those caught cheating and ban them for a long time. Its ridiculous that people were allowed to keep them.

I understand the concerns about "PvP farming", but I can't agree to the cheating accusations.

The problem clearly is that while one cannot negotiate and arrange fights with a vorax or a kincher, that is well possible with player character counterparts.

But, without negotiating the terms of combat, and being in agreement about, PvP is widely impossible.

The core of PvP, as I understood and learnt from friends enthusiastic about, is to explore all the variants and intricacies of a given combat system, to invent ever new methods to attack and defend, to change weapons and armor, and, most important of all, to hone reactions towards mastery in all situations.

This is, like every learning, only possible through constant training, and even training rota, until the reactions, say recharging and firing enchants during combat, changing enchants from attack (e.g. affliction) to healing, and so on, come automatically, without thinking about, like an instinct. This kind of mastery is what distinguishes experts from newcomers, even with inferior weaponry and armor, and secures their superiority against larger numbers. It also requires to emulate several models and variants of attack and defence, under negotiated combat situations. And all of them have to be experienced and trained repeatedly until feeling natural.

It seems unnatural to me to punish and discourage training routine. And it is merely impossible to tell training routine from "farming" of PvP points.

Mind that level grind is rewarded with experience, and, if the trainee is not dumb, with the loot of the training victims useful for crafting or in trade (Diwu and me just earned several million dappers from our horncher bounty which somebody chose to buy in resale :)). PvP training at least yields PvP points in case that the wierd fame rules apply, else it "earns" nothing than equipment attrition.

Earning of PvP rewards should be balanced in all aspects. It should be worth while the loss off armor, weapons, ammo, and sometimes mektoubs, but should not be a source of uber stuff inviting to abuse. This balance is hard to achieve but should be possible. Threatening "PvP farmers" will only lead to less, not more PvP, in my opinion.

Errr.. when someone sits there killing an alt over and over again well thats farming. If someone repetitively kills someone else whilst they don't attack back, then they swap turns.. well thats farming also. Its not hard to tell. Then again considering you think a character in refugee gear not moving from a boss spawn for a solid week might just be curious about the surrounding fauna this doesn't surprise me at all. Especially when the farming alt decides to start selling off all the farmed gear on uni chat for dappers.. well then its pretty obvious isn't it?

PvP point farming only leads to less PvP not more because if you take away the reward system of doing something then less people will do it. Would have thought that would be pretty obvious as well.

Well, I recommend not to bring up the camping issue again and again. It will lead to pointless polemics, and in the end, you'll get hurt. And while I am catty and evil enough to enjoy polemics, I hate when people I like get hurt. So let us agree to disagree about.

As to PvP farming as you describe it, yes, that is not good, and not healthy. But how do you tell legitimate combat training, also with uneven chances, testing the options left in desperate situations, from unfair farming out of greed for points only? Do you want every PvP practitioner being overheard and spied upon?

Much more, there are those many borderline situations. When somebody is training again and again, even with an alt, or a friend, or the alt of a friend, she may try to achieve perfection, but also may combine it with the usefulness of getting some reward.

I agree that ethics and responsibility should be encouraged and enforced by community consensus. That may mean that one frowns upon unfair techniques and spread the word of disapproval of such practice. But in my opinion, that is the only possibility. Setting up a bureaucratic ruleset, and enforcing it by strict supervision, will discourage everybody, even those who have nothing unfair in mind.

In the old game I played. When someone was defeated in CPK (chaotic player killing) it would announce it globally wide.

EX:

"So and so just killed So and so in honorable CPK combat!"

Now if we had an announcement similar to this, it would show the whole community who was farming points.

Admittedly, it would be hard to set up a system that monitored whether or not a person was farming points. I do think the community at large might exert a certain amount of peer pressure on someone's name who popped up 50 times in an hour.

On that thought....

It would be nice if we could type in a command like "player virg" and see how many pvp kills they had. Another thing we could do is show a record of someone's pvp kills. Who they had defeated and when.

I think the PvP community and general population might find this interesting.

IMHO I would almost rather have bragging rights than crystals and gear.

The same with Yubo points it would be nice to type in "player virg yubo" and see their yubo points.

I guess in a way the mara gear for pvp or other factions is that. A way of getting bragging rights.

I think that is a reward that most players would like. Being able to have others see how good they are.

I suppose you could implement something like it for people who harvest. Person who took the most mats out of a hole ever or something.

Why someone would know the amount of Yubo point of an another player ? This looks completely pointless.

Same for PvP, who wants to show how many kill he did today, yesterday, the past weeks ? And this will not solved the farming issue. In my opinion, when you tag up you sign an implicit contract : you accept to be attacked by anyone whatever you are doing (leveling, digging, crafting ... either afk). If you don't want to be bothering by others players just don't tag ...

I don't really see the problem with farming PvP point, the player can detag, change his location etc... Cause if this is a problem, what can we say about player with alts camping bosses ?

@Nehrie, still my personal point of view, but i'm not enjoying at all the idea to display activity of my character like who i killed, the amount of point i have. There is no need to display such kind of info. This will only give more consideration to arrogant people (you know the one always saying that you are a noob).

My 2 daps.

It looks like that:  https://zkillboard.com/ (another game though, not Ryzom).

This can be done via API. The old Ryzom Armory could track locations and equipment of characters, perhaps tracking PvP kills could also be implemented. 
Strange question. Many PvP players absolutely love all sorts of ladders, top killers lists and things like that. That makes competition more fun and interesting. Bragging rights, statistics, records for memorable kills, and it's easy to tell who is indeed a skilled PvP player judging by number of kills.

Man I got a good laugh out of this. :)) @sinvader

There is a long line standing calling me noob. lol I think I am at the head of that line. :))

I hadn't considered the amount of PvP points we have being published. I personally see no need for that.

More like sinvader as 0 pvp kills, nehrie has 950 million pvp kills :))

As far as Yubo points that is already implemented except that no one can see you have completed all of them or how far along you are or how many points you have. I can see taking that the extra step letting other players in the game see your amount of Yubo points.

I do think it would cut down on people farming. Unless that's acceptable practice. Guess I can just drag out my alts and start collecting pvp points if that's the case.

That's me and some of my lucky brothers. Unfortunately, half of players we blackmailed were complaining to GMs.

I remember a time at the merge: the first OP war was the most awesome since the beginning of this game.

3 Faction :
-90 Maras ( 57 Seves Noires + 33 AoH).
-120 Kamis
-120 Karas

But do not worry, guys, many pvp players are just waiting for something motivating. If guild politics were rising like :

"I'm a Kami Leader but I don't like this other Kami guild, we won't bother coming me and my allies"

"Oh you want take this OP and not having to confront us ? Give us 20% of your future production and we have a deal."


But players have too much honesty and integrity while playing this game. That is the PROBLEM.

I really don't think its that hard to tell most pvp-point farming from actual training. All the times I have seen its been incredibly obvious- people doing the same thing over and over again, not competing, not wearing gear etc etc. Yes Dao I agree there are some borderline cases but this does not make up the majority (certainly for me it has always been black or white).

As for statistics, I personally love that idea. KDR, wins, losses, kills with certain weapons, dodges/parries, most damage done in a minute, player killed the most, player killed by the most. All these things as public information to view would be brilliant, along with scoreboards. I do also understand that it very may well be impossible to do.

Others may not like the statistics but for many pvpers, these are things that drive us. Could even have a title system attached to some statistics when you have reached X amount of something, titles for players at the top (and removed when they are replaced). Kill commendations etc. the opportunities are endless and I would love them all.

I'm not attacking you for being unintelligent; intelligent people are not immune to behaving badly. I welcome counter point to the points put forth. But rather than address any of those points, you respond only with personal attacks .... just as you do in various channels in game.... though there it tends to be a bit more "colorful"

When the game provides rewards for one group, that are not available to others, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people will look for ways around it. If ya don't want people farming PvP points, the most logical alternative is to provide mechanism to get similar, not same, rewards with equal effort.

One pays a subscription fee each month to get access to certain rewards. Once one starts paying, one gets double XP, get packers, gets an apartment. Are PvEers paying a lower subscription rate rate then those who PvP ? If not, then all players should have an equal opportunity to get similar, not same, rewards with comparable effort.

I agree, that there is no way to stop farmers but wouldn't agree that it would be obvious, or at least provable. I have never observed it.

"Ranger Only 2 x 2 PvP tournament Matis Arena 2 pm UST"