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Ive played for a long time and returned after a very long break but im finding it hard to enjoy ryzom again due to being forced into these missions I never liked doing fame missions let alone making dapper from them

Has giving dapper a value made this game better? Because I dont see it. dapper was never designed to have value in ryzom maybe im wrong and thats what everyone wanted

Nope, giving dappers a value has not improved the game. It has slowed down outpost attacks a tiny tiny bit, but all who are high level crafters can get dappers just as easy as before. It has however royally screwed the ones who dont have high level crafts.

Welcome to the new ryzom, it's still a lovely game with lovely people, but the devs did introduce reasons to be greedy at merge.

one could claim that yes it does screw low level crafters, the best missions are over Q140 mostly, but one can also argue that if you are 125 level capped in f2p you don't need dappers anyway for all that, the tps are cheap enough, a few missions or new horizons or selling some scrolls can get you by but

it still IS working for daps, when before it was as easy as selling junk to merchant for 10x what you get now

on the up side, there's less selling junk to merchant i suppose but not really, there's still a ton of grind stuff that doesn't have wonderful stats in there passing off with 9999% markup (the ones who just craft to help have prices obviously underneath what it's worth

i still spend on loot thats on merch often as to me daps are worthless and loot is not, the ones who sell the loot amaze me by doing so but they usually just clean out apt when its overly full and toss onto merch, hunt alot and repeat- not really selling to make a profit

i spent a good 2m yesterday and havent made it back today nor will i in weeks probably but if i wanted to i can snag some 200k missions in the high level towns with my good craft levels

the rundown is still about 1000-1200 dappers per mat at best, and if you dig 17-22 mats per minute thats 17-22k per minute, let's say, 1-1.2m per hour. does anyone want to do this? not a chance. do we have a choice? yes sort of. pr tps are 10k they drain quite a bit but if you dig sups you gotta bite the bullet it seems

otherwise surface tps are cheap enough to maintain on a tiny mission every once in a while, pop over to thesos make 90k oh wells. yes it is a minor annoyance but it won't kill you, in fact some people never go to certain towns at all unless they have to craft so it has that use too

if you want the 2m + a day though you don't have any choice it HAS to be dig and craft high level stuff occs at NH are 350k per day waiting several hours until the nh transporter guy cooperates (exaggeration yes, it's much faster now but i hate it tbh)

selling exe dig mats 250Q or exe 260Q loot nets you about 5-5.5k per mat, that's about 4-5 times what you get from dapper missions per mat but can be argued that it takes longer to get them too

it all points to high level diggers and crafters having the edge (yay me, shrug for you if you hate digging)
i wouldn't mind if they raised the dapper count for hunting missions etc but i don't expect it, to me it should be done to even things out - however - i don't view atys as a mission oriented world, most of the missions are total crap. i made lots of boots for kami welcomer to get my 61 fame for tps, over and over and over.

lots of shields to make my daps, over and over and over
lots of scrolls to make some daps, over and over and over

ain't no one likes monotony

now to rebut some of the people who will reply saying you don't "need" to dig or craft that you dont "have" to have that many daps or that you "can" hunt and do messenger missions or other little things. i bluntly say that you are incorrect. i can agree to an extent because sure it is true i don't have to buy 2m loot a day but limiting the options of players in a sandbox game is bad.

if dappers were overflowing for everyone more people would have more options without having to keep stopping to do these missions. that is how it was, anyone could have done it before. now anyone can do it IF they have taken the time to raise certain skills, and everyone no longer applies to low level players. there will come a time when the higher level players have way more than they need, like before, and the lower level ones do not, and then donations will be widespread, as before. it just makes the game more "challenging" for newbies. this will also scare away some newbies, challenge is nice but this is a punitive change no matter how you look at it.

there are people who will simply leave and find an mmo where you get nice items and dappers from mobs because they hate to dig and they just want to log on and have fun quickly. yes you can say maybe they arent for atys but we cant afford to lose new players either

there are some other up sides such as, i have been crafting in team for many players so they can use my high level craft to get their daps, yes it encourages some amount of team play but we can also call this dependency. there are many who are against soloists or independence in atys, i disagree with this too because it IS a sandbox and it should not punish you excessively for wanting a little solo pride. it just means that if you want to be swimming in daps then

this is a bit of a joke not meant to be taken entirely seriously, to illustrate one possible outlook on the state of the atysian economy and the dapper mission dependency.

pick shields
level shields
level shields some more
do missions in pyr then move up to crystabell windermeer natae avalae thesos etc etc

sell some q250 exe land mats (if you are badass you can make a good amount from forest mats because we know that people are using exe pr mats instead of forest mats since forest got so deeply screwed by terrible mat placement in the sea of aggro that is forest)

do another craft
repeat

do alot of dapper missions
have 100m easy

make 350k and 7000 faction points by aligning to a nation and getting 99 fame in that nation

take 40+ days to master scroll maker, sell your scrolls for 18k+ each, 18 a day each for grade 5 and 6

ignore everyone who tells you that you can get by with other lesser means such as messenger missions selling to merchant and hunting (yes i said it, contest it if you want but it won't compare to the other methods)

To add an opinion (not contradicting Eruv's description how to make dappers):

I see an improvement in troll and harrassment OP clicks having died down. I further on see an improvement in newbies missing who dropped from Silan in an hour, got stuffed with 20+ million by overly generous homins, running around as freshbie guildleader spamming guildinvites everywhere including uni.

I also see at least no failure in lack of getting up to 12m a day by just digging crafting in normal grind. Indeed, the daily grind in digging/crafting nowadays gives only tiny profits when all costs are gone.

Those who hate craft missions or lack the level to do the profitable ones should consider to place stuff into the merchants at, say 400-600 dap/mat fitting to e.g. the Dyron missions yielding 1-1.2k per mat. Many might consider buying to save the digging grind.

What is missing is that there is not much use and fun with dappers. I have "amassed" 70 million then stopped overseer missions nearly 2 months ago and earned further 8 by dig/craft grind, NH, black market, and few other. Money did not stop to flow, it is just flowing slower.


Granted I do not declare OP wars or run an outpost. Those are dapper sinks to some extent.

oops :) forgot that one, i have been selling at the same rates as overseer missions or a bit lower and always get my mats bought its basically 2222-3333% markup but that STILL is a reliance on digging for a profit....

Well, if getting around is meant to be easy, then the correct way is to make teleport pacts laughably low. Why wouldn't a pact in Void cost 500 dappers, and a PR one 1000 at most? Or maybe make those in regions 0-150 cost very little, and keep the current prices for all others.

If having cheap transportation is meant to be easier than now, then the correct way is to make buying a mektoub mount cost even less. Why not have mounts at 500 apiece and forage bales below 1000 daps? Or introduce the option to forage for the bales, I'm sure there would be willing homins for this activity.

Pacts and mounts pretty much cover the day-to-day needs of a newcomer.

Idea is, you don't drag down the coin value (entirely, as a concept) in order to achieve a few local effects. Sure, it's a sandbox, therefore a relatively easy living shouldn't be hard for anyone to achieve. But a hierarchy will always exist: those who spend the most time getting the good items will eventually be richer than those who are just starting out. Even with dappers out of the equation, those spending time to dig SNs and hunt bosses have the upper hand in a barter negociation. Those guilded and with outposts will have a very good barter tool.

The newbie has little chance either way: if the dapper has no value, then he's solely at the mercy of someone else (guild members, endowment season, etc) for crafted items that have actually acceptable stats. In other words, if no crafter feels like doing their job for free in a barter economy it's end of discussion, newbie goes hunting level 110 creatures with his q60 mismatched armor. In a dapper economy, the newbie at least has a chance to do a couple missions and have dappers for the negotiations; not to mention it would get people interested in crafting earlier, in order to meet overseer demands.

Then again, if a dapper economy might ruin the community spirit .. that's another discussion.

Mjollren --

Comparing the pre-merge prices for most TP's to the current prices, they are about the same relative to what else dappers can buy. Before merge I could craft off a few q250 armor bits and sell them to the merchant for the price of a few tps. I can still do the same, except for the q250 areas and the PR. Those areas are now significantly more costly to get to than they were pre-merge.

Mounts are also basically as cheap as they used to be. Packers are significantly more expensive in relative terms although the absolute price has dropped.

TOOLS are incredibly MORE expensive than they used to be, both in absolute and relative terms.

As I commented in a different thread, app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/17134/, the dapper economy is doomed in the long run because there is an infinite supply of raw materials.

There will always be a disparity between the rich longer-term players and the new people, that is true, but even in the so-called "new economy", dappers are not worth much. If a new person comes up to me and needs q100 armor (and is polite, and shows that he has an idea of what he needs, as opposed to wants, and is willing to help) I'm more than likely going to either make some armor for him. I'm certainly NOT going to ask him for dappers. I don't need them, and he is better off spending them on tps than giving them to me.

If a higher level person comes to me and wants a set of good q250 hp jewels that I have to forage for, she had better have something to trade with that I want -- and it won't be dappers, not even in the millions. The trade is not to pay for the materials, or the tool, but to pay for my time in going out to get the mats. If she comes up with the materials in hand, I'm happy to lend my expertise, and might even consume a scroll to get fewer degrades.

The dapper is already worthless, and it is an obstacle in the way of new players learning the ropes.

My thoughts -- worth the dappers you didn't pay for them.

I agree to much Bittty has written though I see the new economy more positive. As to mounts, the old mount price was a disincentive to use these vulnerable creatures costing two thirds of an apartment price at that time. Even when owning billions, these over 650k were an abhorrence for me. Only since the fusion I am using mounts as a means of transportation and to some extent temp storage, still much regretting but not equally much worrying about losing one to gingos, tyranchas, or najabs.

The most expensive packers have always been hardy creatures, so far I lost none driving them around the world more than once. Granted they are relatively ways more valuable, they remain largely a one time investment seldom to be renewed if at all. Same goes widely with apartments and guildhalls, as well orders of magnitude more expensive than pre merge. I cannot see a bad thing in it.

The weakness of the dapper economy unless one loves to declare outpost wars still remains. Once having established a constant flow of income, the dapper balance will always grow monotoneously. And it lacks any shopping opportunities on the higher level of dapper ownership.

I am renewing an old proposition: creation of multiple room apartments. Any additional room adding 500 bulk and costing n^^10 of the price of the first room. That would mean: basis apt price 1m/500k storage 1m, second room 10/5m storage 500k, third room 100m/50m storage 500k, and so on. This would be a matter of prestige (multi room apts) once the apartment app is working one could be bragging ;).

Other funny dapper sinks should be thought about (buying plushie vorkoo, slucer, whatever) . Without the chance of shopping fun dappers will remain boring.