IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

a Zorai guild can have:

100 zorai
75 fyros
25 matis
0 tryker

fame as per roleplay convention, but only zorai aligned, and neutrals can join a zorai aligned guild, no fyros aligned can join - to me this is nonsense.

anyone got something to say on that? game would be more interesting if 2 races could get into race aligned guild.

(for anyone who may not know, once you align for a race you will always jhave 100 75 25 and 0 for the 4 races, totalling to 200, neutrals have 50 max in all 4 races totally to 200 also. but the usefulnses of this is very limited

This is not Race alignement, this is Nation alignement.

What is called here Zorai, Tryker, Matis, Fyros is in fact the Theocracy, the Federation, the Empire and the Kingdom.

For example a fyros can actually join the Kingdom by doing the rite to become a Subject of the Kingdom. He will still be a fyros, he will not grow a few feets taller, and become pale skinned suddenly.

So the sense is that if a guild is aligned (let's say citizen) with a nation, it can accept homins who are not aligned (not citizen of any nation), but not homins who are citizens of another nation.

The questionable thing is that a neutral guild cannot recruit citizens of all nations, but only homins wihtout any citizenship.
It is only questionable, not "nonsense"

perhaps i was not clear

a guild that is civilisation aligned race aligned nation aligned whatever you want to call it... has fame of 0 25 75 and 100 in various distributions

zorai alignment was just one example where 0 25 75 100 is in the order of tryker matis fyros zorai. this is supposedly because the fyros get long very well with the zorai at some point in the RP history, my question is

why not allow fyros ALIGNED players (not just fyros by birth) into a zorai ALIGNED guild? that is, why is the secondary fame of the aligned guild ignored and only the primary one cared for?

+1 :)
I don't know much about RP , Fey, But I know that if you pass the rite to become a fyros you won't be able to JOIN a guild which is already aligned with another nation/race.
so If fryos Homin could join a Zorai Guild , and a Tryker could join a matis guild that would be great :P
( ur Move Eruv --' )

Eruv, I see one massive problem with this proposal. If you allowed homins aligned to the empire into guilds aligned to the theocracy, what excuse would we have to keep bollocks from getting invites?

Think before you speak! ^^

Well, if a guild claims to be citizen of a nation, for example Zorai, that is, the Theocracy, then what does it mean first ?

In my opinion, they claim they are all citizen of the Theocracy, or would-be citizen, which is why this guild can accept neutrals.
You cannot be citizen of the Theocracy when you are citizen of the Empire (or any other)
A patriot (for example) willing to join a initiate guild is likely to prove his commitment by leaving the Empire.
In fact, you cannot have more than one citizenship, that's all. The world of ryzom is not a modern world, the homins societies are young (less than 400 years of history), you cannot expect such modern aspect as in the real world (with a history of human societies of more than 5000 years).

if i think that it is ineffective perhaps even hypocritical to claim to be pals with one other civilisation to a great extent (ex. zora/fyros) and i wanted them to join my guild but the current rules do not permit , i would, if i could, go make my own guild where the two were both allowed in

my point here is that it denies freedom of choice in the matter , the way things are currently set up and it makes that secondary fame useless, just an artifact that misleads the players into thinking that it should be possible when it is not

i don't deny your argument, it seems like a radical idea perhaps but consider how tiny the ryzom population is, i think it would bring an interesting possibility to atys

It also restricts freedom of choice to be karavan or kami.. for guilds and players.

In that case, I see no reason to change this - it is by design and the way it is.

I also don't see why a citizen aligned player should be able to join any guild.. there are implications in practice for declaring allegiance to cult or civilization, and it should be considered before doing so..

There's a workaround to have citizens of multiple nations join the same guild - don't align the guild.. all of this is intentional design, change that and there's really no RP meaning to anything in Ryzom.

It makes far MORE RP sense as is sadly. It is inconvenient, in fact, doing the alignment of guilds incorrectly can lead to one being booted from their guild.

yo min, i didnt say citizen aligned join any guild i said

there's main fame and secondard fame for all homins when they align

ex.

matis 100 max tryker 75
zorai 100 max fyros 75
fyros 100 max zorai 75
tryker 100 max matis 75

if i made errors on the matis/tryker ones ill fix it later im pretty sure i didnt bungle it

why not 2 civ aligned per guild? zora/fyros tryker/matis ?

A reason may be that the current alliances between the nations are not hammered in stone. According to the Lore there have been e.g. Tryker-Fyros alliances in the past, and there have been some Fyros-Zorai quarrels just recently.

A national guild with members from other nations would have troubles when an alliance breaks, or worse in case of a state of war between the nations in question.

I would consider it appropriate when neutral guilds were allowed to recruit citizens, because national guilds can take neutrals. Anyway, there are reasons not to allow that which seem justifiable as well.

i agree well enough with the alliances not being hammered in stone but the fame window is still misleading, in that case, not that ti really have any alternative suggestion

either fyros/zorai is honored or some readjustment could be made because, suddenly the tryker hate me when i align zorai even though i had 50 fame with them one minute ago...

little things like that bother me, for instance for met o go from zorai to fyros guild i will give up my 75 fyros drop to 50 and cimb again, that's not so bad but something about it irks me

maybe its just me and no one else cares about these minor details

I will try to explain my point of view:

It´s true that everyone we have some fame points when we start our playing depending on the race we choose, and that fame is predetermined with the Lore.

Ok. Now. Guilds are supouse to be, and I´m talking about the meaning of the word, association of craftsmen or merchants, and people that have the same goal in mind.

Well. So if Homins gather in, for example, a Fyros guild, is because they whant to be a guild of the Empire, so they can have better prices at merchants; and Empire will protect them too or wathever they have in mind.

But it´s true, guild fame have other fames too with other races. This way, according to the Lore, and with the same example, a Fyros guild will have more chances to make great deals with Zoraï, and Matis will be the worst place to make deals with merchants. And of course, depending the political situation the relation between Homins will change too.

So;

The fame you have when you are member of any nation, is the relations you will have with other nations acording to Lore. Having different "patriots" in the same guild hasn´t sense for me. If you want to be Fyros you have to be, you can´t be Tryker and Fyros. You must choose one. And with guild happens the same. You must elect.

In real life is the same. You are from a Nation and if you want to be from another, you must change. One of the other, not the same at same time. And it is true that are some exceptions were you can have both

Well, that is a matter than can be discuss in Assemblys. Can be a great ide, but by now, I think we must choose.


Sorry my english, but hope I helped in something :D

Lerya your english is much better than any other language for me to speak besides english =) thank you.

I suppose this is true it is a topic for discussion at assemblies but i must say i am surprised, i am not used to such a unanimous NO you have to PICK one, sort of response on the forums. normally at least some are both for and against an idea-

especially something simple with, to me, obvious benefits to increase interaction and facilitate more out of an existing system that, once again at least to me, seems to logically suggest its implementation (without any huge amount of coding i can hope)

Well, Eruv, just a fact i experienced in another game : there is a background describing 5 different races, with relationships between each others (no citizenship, only race), and they allow multiracial guilds.
Consequence : because guilds want to be numerous, and powerful, they became multiracial, the only few who wished to stay racial, or at least have only races linked by background, became weak, and disappeared.

This kind of things lead to uniformity and in the end erase the background to the benefit of gameplay only.

And I am too much an adept for roleplay to see the background of the game disapear.
So yes, i just say NO, and if it seems i'm not the only one, i'm glad of that :)

I will make a big exaggeration : if you facilitate the game , give everyone his lvl 250 in each skill, all supreme-crafted items, friendship with every other player or NPC ... what will they do ? uninteresting game, no challenge, game over !
On another hand, erasing some limits will erase some interactions that appear because of this limit.
So in my opinion, there would not be increase of interaction, and facilitating is evil. I hope you understand this point of vue.

By the way, you don't need to be in same guild with someone to be friend with this someone. guilds can have relationships between them too, and characters can have individual relationships that differ from guilds or nation relationship, so I really see no problem at all. Numbers are just numbers, and by the way, 0 fame is not hate, what is negative fame then ?