#1 [en] 

(( OOC: This was first presented in 2010 in the Old Forums. Recently I found that photobucket had cut access to the map. Luckily I found a copy of it. I include the original post and selected responses. The whole, less pictures, can be found at: . ))

A True Map of Atys:

Gentlehomins of the New Trykoth Council of Scientists (and all other interested homins):

For some time, I have been aware that the map of Atys that we are presented with by both the Karavan and the Kami is convenient (because it is approximately square), but does not reflect the actual relationship of the various lands to each other. So I set about to determine what the actual relationship was. After some time, and with some effort and expense, I collected data on distance and (approximate) direction between landmark flags. I discovered what appeared to be a N-S reference line (Between the Karavan altars at Hidden Source and at Land of Continuity) and used it as the basis for further calculations.

The result is what you see. It is interesting that while the Kitin Observer titles follow the map we are presented with, they bear no resemblance to the actual locations of the lands. Are both the Karavan and Kami attempting to hide something from us?

In addition, the true map has allowed me to estimate the distance from Atys to the Sun. The sun appears to lie due east of Fairhaven (at least to within my ability to sense such things). From the Karavan altar (tp) in Void, approximately 31km to the north of FH, it appears to lie about ten degrees south of due east (again with a certain amount of error). This means that the sun is only between 150 and 250 km from Atys, introducing the possibility that Atys does not orbit it, but that it orbits Atys!

These are exciting times in for research in Atys.

Respectfully submitted --


((P.S. The full-sized (7MB) map can be had by writing me at ))
Heh, great presentation, specially the estimating the distance to the sun.

However, like so many pieces of knowledge, this is one that has been discovered by many researchers in the past, only to always be forgotten again shortly thereafter. I have found a similar map from long ago here. ((original link leads to another photobucket blocked image))

Most researchers back then agreed that, I quote, "There's probably no real meaning to this layout. More than likely, it's just an artifact of how the overall coordinate space works and not so much a representation of the actual spatial relationships between lands."

My own theory was that it is not the map, but our compass that is at fault. Over long distances, across portals, or going from underground to aboveground, the field lines don't behave as we'd expect them too, causing our compass to point in the wrong direction.

Nevertheless, I commend your new theories on this data and hope that your work will attribute to this knowledge not being forgotten again.
Indeed, nice work and presentation Unfortunately, I don't think ANY of the Atys maps fit together correctly. Take for example Fyros and Zorai. A portal in the far NW of Fyros leads to the N entrance of Underspring. The S exit of Underspring the leads to a portal in the far NW of Zorai. The only way for that route to physically exist, is if the two lands are on *virtually* opposite sides of the planet (NW Fyros aligned with NW Zorai by a direct line through the two portals, and the planet) and Underspring basically carves a passage right through the planet's "core", or very close to it. If this is the case, it would certainly cause compass-based measurements to look strange - because compass-based measurements assume a distance *around* the planet's surface, not *through* it in a direct line That is an assumption, and it could well be that compass distance is "as the crow flies" - but I think if you have something targeted you can see that isn't the case, because the only way to reduce the distance between a location in the desert and one in the jungle, would be to dig downwards

Another potential problem is Atys' distance measurements - although it would have no bearing on place-to-place measurement because it's all relative, distances in Ryzom are greater than they should be, when measured relatively against other objects. If you walk forwards 5 ingame metres, it would appear that you've actually only walked 2 or 3 metres - distances seem to be at least slightly overblown, as I don't believe Dazman is 3.5 metres tall heh

Bitttymacod to sidusar
Thank you for the link to the earlier work. It is humbling to know that such knowledge, once found, can be lost again in such a short time, and it is also a measure of the control that the commonly presented map has on us in our perception of the lands. I do note that I seem to have been more careful in the scaling of the maps of the individual lands, but the overall result is clearly the same.

On the matter of compass directions or distances being faulty; I don't think so, primarily because all the maps of the individual lands align perfectly. Once I had a sufficiently long N-S reference line I did not need to adjust the angle of any of the individual maps. In addition, with three reference points per area (except for Nexus, Abyss of Ichor and Underspring), ALL of the distances between points lined up perfectly, both within each area and between all areas. The relationships are also consistent with the observations I made of the direction of the sun as seen from Void and from Hidden Source as compared to the view from Fairhaven.

I was prepared to make corrections for the depth of the Prime Roots areas, but that proved not to be necessary, which means that those caverns are only a small distance (less than 200m) below the surface. This is consistent with the fact that we can occasionally see shafts of light piercing the ceiling of the caverns.

If our compasses were being affected by large distances between lands, or by some effect of the portals, I would not expect the inter-land and intra-land distances and directions to be so congruent.

With respect,


========== OOC ==========

Most researchers back then agreed that, I quote, "There's probably no real meaning to this layout. More than likely, it's just an artifact of how the overall coordinate space works and not so much a representation of the actual spatial relationships between lands."

Yeah, sure; but it's interesting that the coordinate system has such big vacancies in it when it doesn't need to and when there is no reason not to have laid out the coordinate system to more closely resemble the supposed relationships of the lands.

Bitttymacod to dazman76
Thank you for your commentary. However, as I noted in my response to sidusar, the inter and intra-land distances appear to all be consistent with measurements on a (nearly) flat plane, something that would not be true even if the distances and angles were directed around the surface of an (approximate) sphere (which we are shown in other pictures). Violation of this observation would be even more dramatic if compass directions were all straight-line.

As I noted before, there is also the matter of the consistency of my map with the view of the sun from locations on Atys.

What is clear, is that the portals by which we travel from land to land are just that -- portals, not tunnels. They are clearly related to the Rainbow Gates that brought us here and thus there is no necessary geographical relationship implied by such a connection. This is the case even in the "standard map" of Atys.

The question then becomes, why are the gates set in the way they are and why are there no direct gates between some lands while there are between others? The answer must be that they are set the way they are to encourage us to believe the "standard map".

I will be investigating further, you may be assured. At the same time I am also attempting to map the motion of the objects we see in the sky and attempting (as I have done with the sun) to place them in their proper place relative to Atys.


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
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Last visit Sat Sep 19 02:20:45 2020 UTC

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