Web Apps

Á wonderful summary, couldn't say it any better.

ok, so let's take down bm, raum, and every other site that has any information about Atys whatsoever.
After all, it's all spoilers at some level and therefore makes it easier for beginners to start to do things.
Bosses, exc and sup mats are no longer secrets known only to the old masters who've been here for years and want the spots to themselves lest others have access to good mats.
That can't be allowed to stand! Something MUST be done else we might get new masters in the foraging and craft that can compete and detroy the market.

Oh wait, wasn't such information exactly what can be found about Earth in most any library?
And isn't the original purpose of Ryzom not to make Atys a better place for all homins, not just for those few who've been here for years to use the younger members as cannon fodder in op wars?

What I'm seeing developing here is exactly the hostility towards newcomers that ruins so many mmos, a rift between old and new that drives newcomers away until the population is no longer viable.

Iala you miss their pont, they have no problem giving out info, but if the craft book becomes a simulator as it seems you wish it to be, then it moves the game away from people actually working to gain knowledge, and toward the "asian grinders" you frequently bash, and you claim would ruin Ryzom.

No, I'm talking about the idea that sharing information like dig spots destroys the game (which was postulated) and that that's similar to turning the recipe book into a crafting simulator.

Mind you, I think both have a point. And I do think there's a place for crafting simulators like there is a place for maps with mat spots etc.
It's up to everyone himself to decide whether to use and share such information however, and not to have it either forcibly denied them or being forced to use it.

And allowing the post craft stats to be entered into the recipe book wouldn't IMO turn it into a craft simulator. It'd turn it into a cookbook with author comments about the taste of the finished product.

If it automatically showed the stats of an item you might have a point. Such an option if provided should be an option indeed, and probably turned off by default and hidden in the game configuration (where most people never look).
That way those who really want it can use it without bothering others.

<<continued>>
I'd personally use it to try to improve on recipes I know by trying bits and pieces of mats
not currently in my posession.
Would provide me with a reference of things to go look for, things I might not even be aware at that point exist or where to find.
Of course some people wouldn't want such knowledge known as it would increase competition for some bosses and named mobs so there's less chance for them to get those mats.

Regarding Post #17
Okay, so let's implement all these sites officially into the game itself.

Whenever you have a mission running where you need to deliver anything to an NPC or find anything, a green arrow always shows the direction. In the compass, orange points are herbivores, red flashing ones are carnivores and other aggros. So nobody will ever run into a spawn without exactly knowing whether they are evil or friendly.
This is newbie-friendly, since they don't need to gather experience with mobs..

Whenever one wants to dig some mats, he opens his ingame map, clicks on "target", chooses the specific mat and all spots appear. If he clicks a flag, the system suggests a porter to get near and an automatically generated route that leads directly to the spot. Of course, an X marks the spot on the floor. Throw here. If desired, the auto-walk takes you there.
This is newbie-friendly, since they don't need to use the specific spells to locate a spot on their own, nor do they need to gather experience with mobs and their behave in different countries.

Whenever one wants to craft an evil imba-launcher of maximum quality, he doesn't need to try recipes, but can ask the system. Of course it will suggest a recipe for the desired item and it's stats, and tell him, where he can find the stuff. Green arrows, anyone?
This is newbie-friendly, since they don't need to get used to recipes, to collect many standard and a few rare mats.

Btw., I find it unacceptable that a char needs to grind his desired levels on his own. Levels should be distributed uniformly among all players, whenever a newbie enters the game, it simply is unreasonable that long-term-players with over 200 days playing time have more possibilities, knowledge, levels, power and influence than a 2-hour-newbie.

Umm .. doesn't make any sense, does it ?

Question: What if bm, raum and the others never went to public with their stuff?
Would Ryzom be worse?
Unfair?
Or would it be more challenging?
Or would it offer more myth to newbies, rather than showing them all the truth at once?

Ah, yes, I almost forgot:
I'd suggest to distribute all OP's among the guilds, please.
I see many "self-proclaimed elite" guilds or allys owning the same OP's since aeons. That's fair, huh?
Paying *many* forage mats for one OP mat is fair, huh?
One-Man-Guilds able to own a 250er OP because they're protected by an ally is fair?

Unilateral thinking, anyone?

Regards
Talya

Edit: corrected typos and thinkos :)

Also ich finde es klasse.

*hands out the silver plates to anyone who wants some*
Here you go. Boring 0815, run of the mill MMO for everyone.
Have a nice day and please don´t complain about our MOBs being to hard, we can´t lower their level below 1 or they´ll just drop dead from you staring at them.
Yes, we understand you all want a Game that essentially plays itself, but we have to keep appearances, right?
I mean, just to keep the few adult folks that actually want a game to be a challenge to their brains and stuff.
Yeah, I know ridiculous.
But hey, they bring money too.
So we just provide them with what they "need" most basically, by letting them switch the Game to "Hard Mode", which btw, is a total waste of precious Gametime. Because yes, we know, you just want to stare at a screen all day and watch the game play itself.
All this "running around" doing stuff is boring, we know.
So, you don´t have to do it anymore. The Game will.
Or some other cool Program developed by some smart ass kid.

Oh, you´ve got an issue with needing to find specific items to put into your auto-craft system? Wait, we´ll spawn them right into your backpack. Ok? Good.
Yes, we know... asking others In Game to teach you something, that you could just read up on on a website, or have the game do for you is a chore and unacceptable to modern Gaming culture.
The idea of playing alongside them others is preposterous too, yes, sorry we did put them on the same server with you. They´re annoying like hell, we know.

So, you don´t want to use your brain to come up with your own accomplishments in our game?
Ah, just lay it on this silver plate I just handed you, we´ll take care of it for you. So you won´t be bothered by those other silly people playing our game, or the games mechanics at all.

Enjoy your stay! :)

CU
Acridiel ;)

With some improvements this App can be useful! Good work!

As a newbe speeking out of turn, may I suggest the middle path between such extream views.

You want new players to get into crafting, yet the only information they are allowed it what they get from trial and error or from some 'Hint' the old timers are willing to give out. The frustration level in trying to learn crafting for the new player is such that many will never even bother.

But I can see/understand/agree with the points being made not to hand everything out on a silver plate to a new player. It takes the value away from the older players skills and does not realy give the new player anything of lasting value or intertainment.

So I would like to suggest a path someplace in the middle (please read the complete idea before total rejection)

<see next post>

Simply put, do both. Allow the CRB to be a simulator and a place to keep personal recipes with detailed notes. BUT, limit the simulator aspects to only work with items/mats up to a given quality level. This would allow a new player to actualy understand what crafting is all about and incourage them to take a strong interest in it while preserving/protecting the current system of learning the skill.

This would make the "simulator" aspect of the CRB more of a new player trainer/educator than the shortcut to crafting that everybody fears.

The recipes I'm suggesting should cover basicly everything up to a certain level (I'd suggest q20) and then some significant examples of more diverse items up to the max the simulator allowed (maybe around q50 or so).

Don't put it on a silver plate, but some encouragement would be nice. :)

That won't work.
Not only are most hunted mats not available at those levels (many mobs start higher, and all bossmats are higher), but for other mats the stats won't depend on the q of the item.
q250 exc oath bark has exactly the same properties as does q10 exc oath bark (for example), it can just be used to make higher q equipment for higher level players.

What might work is limit the simulator aspect to only basic and fine mats, or only to those mats available on Silan (which amounts to in part the same thing, except there will be less choices available as the variety of stuff found there is lower).
Will give some idea of how mats interact, without "revealing the secrets" of what the really high grade stuff like bossmats can do.

That said, with Ryzom now being open source it's only a matter of time (and in fact I know it's already been done) before a full crafting simulator becomes available outside the game itself that's pretty darn close in predicting even the post craft stats of pretty much anything.

Yes, the "magic" or joy of research is likely about to disappear.

is it?
To me a simulator would merely be a shortcut to having to pull a ton of mats out of an alt hall and trying all those combinations in precraft.
Essentially I'd be doing the same thing, except I'd be doing it with a few less mouseclicks.
For others it may be different, but that's not my problem.

Is it? :)