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#37 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Entendu

Deomai, I swear if I have to hear about occupations one more time I am going to slam my head into my computer desk.

Ok, you asked for. Either put your helmet on to avoid injury or stop reading.
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[should suffice]

I understand cats are supposed to be valued but there is NO WAY occupations would satisfy my need for cats.

Unless you are eating cats, using them for undescript (mind minors' protection) sexual practices or else, I fail to see how occupations cannot satisfy the "need" of an individual player for cats. The only reason why I am sometimes running out of cats e.g. when lvling armor crafting 220 to top, 4 parts at a time, is that I am producing potions (a valuable commodity) as well. I am - as a single player - producing at best more than half of the output of an outpost running 50/50 mat and cats. Ok, that's maximum, that's stress, and I seldom do it as I never need it, just for pride.

I am not sure how fast you level but even when I came to the mainland 4 stacks of q50 cats didnt last me long at all. So stick with your occupations and I will go ahead and vote yes for cat increases.

I started playing bit less than 15 mths ago and mastered 12 skills, 4 out of 5 digging, 1 fight 1 magic 6 crafting. I do not know whether or not that is fast. I am a humble individual player doing my best.

I want to stress that I have a good friend who is less achievement addicted and refuses to use cats at all not to let her fun be spoiled by overly fast progress. I admire her.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#38 Eingetragen von Meagon vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Okay not everybody likes occupations. Maybe Leanon is occupation crazed but I know maybe three people that have actually managed to get to Q250 cat making and even less that have mastered/done all of the occupations. I don't even know how cat making works. All I know is you need to use multiple occupations and a fire..

I see people dable in them even did myself but as I said before I personally despise occupations. I've hated them ever since they were implemented. Can't really explain it though so don't ask why.

Cats should be open for all types of players not just the people who love to farm occupations.

I only use cats for my crafting and its a tough time trying to find them. There are a few individuals I can count on for trying to get me some when they have some spare but I still find days where I'm crafting without them and it just means more digging which means more dying for me.

It's getting on my nerves about you constantly returning to the fact that occupations are a sufficient way to get cats.

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Meagy :)
Spirit of Atys
High Officer of Spiritus Artificis
Never argue with an idiot; they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

#39 Eingetragen von Zyeir vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Like I said previously the only viable alternative i see, is to get 10 or 20 alts and tour the camps with them. But not everyone has the computing power to manage that.

#40 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Meagon

Okay not everybody likes occupations. Maybe Leanon is occupation crazed ..

Not quite. Yet occupations got a boost over alchemy potions. And there are a couple of ppl crafting cats, though, with a yet smaller population than Arispotle, cats shortage is not that hard.

I see people dable in them even did myself but as I said before I personally despise occupations. I've hated them ever since they were implemented. Can't really explain it though so don't ask why.

That ist your right and your taste, nobody must criticize that. But you should then live with the consequences: either finding somebody providing you with the products of (advanced) occupations or not having them.

Cats should be open for all types of players not just the people who love to farm occupations.

Well, and what about ppl who don't love PvP, or those at least not loving PvP in OP fights? Actually, the advanced occupations opened alternative access to cats for individual players and not OP holding guilds. I consider that a better way than just flooding the bark with cats or leave them with OP holders only.

It's getting on my nerves about you constantly returning to the fact that occupations are a sufficient way to get cats.

Feel free to ignore what I am writing. Yet the developpers have created an opportunity allowing to produce up to 4 stacks of cats per day and character in every quality, limited by the effort of obtaining basic occupation products. So one cannot say that there is no way to obtain sufficient cats. Just on contrary, the more players are around and produce, the more cats, different from the fixed set of OPs. Therefore my insisting in contradiction that there is no way to get sufficient cats. There is a logical difference between don't like and doesn't exist.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#41 Eingetragen von Entendu vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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*smacks head on desk*
Daomei, you use the oocupations and I don't think anyone disagrees that is impressive that you maintain cats for yourself.. For me.. There is NO WAY I would want to dig mats... THEN go do the cat occupations... THEN craft.. thats a lot of work just for a few stacks of cats. Please ask youself.. If they increased cat production would this REALLY adversely effect you? Probably not.. You would still be able to stay out of OPs and do your occupations.
Also the fact that you talk to Meagon about PvP is funny. I realize your not on Arispostle but Meagon is not a advocate for PvP and from what I can tell stays out of most of it now a days.

#42 Eingetragen von Meagon vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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There is loss of logic in your arguments. Increasing the cat production rate would not at all affect you if you are getting your cats from crafting them only. You could still craft away and enjoy what you do.

Why should I have consequences when I don't like the occupations. They didn't even exist until that long ago. Sure I don't get all those weird boosts and I don't get potions, but why should that mean I don't get cats? I'm not a PvP crazed homin as Entendu said, I've detached a bit from them and sure I love taking part in the occasional battle but you won't see my guild ever attacking an outpost. I enjoy helping people and seeing them get what they want and need.

Until people start popping up that are obsessed with the occupations like you I don't see how Ari can even supply cats for a fraction of the population. Because cats are so scarce if people do craft them they keep them to theirselves or maybe share with their guild. I don't know I've never seen/heard of anybody crafting them to a large extent

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Meagy :)
Spirit of Atys
High Officer of Spiritus Artificis
Never argue with an idiot; they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

#43 Eingetragen von Jarnys vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Ulykus

I agree... and kinchers don't hunt mektoubs :-)

You noticed it! But there is one exception to this: one with a homin mounted on top ;-)

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#44 Eingetragen von Soloreaper vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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I read a lot of this post until it became the same points going backwards and forwards.

I feel a change is necessary, as the original intention was to get rid of the surplus in the game world. For starters the production needs to be switched around, more higher lvl cats than lower lvl cats, because gaining levels at 0-50 is much quicker than 200-250.

and then maybe a slight increase...

#45 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Soloreaper

I feel a change is necessary, as the original intention was to get rid of the surplus in the game world. For starters the production needs to be switched around, more higher lvl cats than lower lvl cats, because gaining levels at 0-50 is much quicker than 200-250.

Please consider that there are only 4 outposts producing q50 catalyzers (as far as they are producing cats at all). Lvl 50 is reached soon, anyway, even without cats.

On the other hand, all f2p players can use only q50-q150 cats due to the level cap. And many players quit or reduce playtime before reaching lvl 150 oder even lvl 200. So the overall demand for cats below level 200 may exceed that for the higher levels.

and then maybe a slight increase...

I still doubt that this is the right way, much more that a slight increase will be felt at all outside the OP holding guilds. First reaction on a slight or even medium increase will be servicing the demand of guild members of OP holding guilds. Next step will be refilling or building up reserves for the case of OP loss. After that, demand of allied guilds, be it for members or restacking reserves, may be serviced. Only after all that, the general public may take advantage - or not. Some guilds may also decide to produce more mats once cats output has been raised in case the throttled cat production is servicing their demand.

I know that on Leanon at least 2, probably 3 lvl 250 outposts do not produce cats at all. The holders are battle hardened guilds of long term players who long leveled out all skills of their need, several of them before cats existed in the game. Why should they sacrifice valuable tekorn, vedice, maga etc. just for gifting cats to "spoiled brats"?

That's why I favor methods empowering all interested homins, not just OP holders. I think that cat pricing in faction points above q100 is wrong and prohibitive. q50 to q250 have a per cat cost in civ fp of 1,2,4,8,17, in cult fp even 2,4,8,16,33 which is kind of quadratic increase. This is unreasonable and results in about 17,000 civ fp for a single stack of catalyzers, meaning 8 times ca touring the camps for a neutral player and about two and a half for a citizen. A pricing of 1,2,3,4,5 for civ fp (dunno about cult fp, any suggestion?) would seem fair to me, amountig in 440 q250 cats per camp run for a neutral and 1100 for a citizen. That is still not much for 45-90minutes of touring all camps in a country.

My general objection of simply raising OP production of cats is that I obviously everybody expects to be given cats for free. Nobody so far told how much of which valuables she would be willing to give in exchange for a stack of cats of a given quality to the producers of cats no matter whether they be OP holders, crystal crafters, camp runners, mission mat diggers, or PvPists. Only then one could judge whether overall cat production is too low.

2 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Daomei (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#46 Eingetragen von Zyeir vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Daomei, the situation in leanon is very different than that of arispotle. Arispotle has a larger population with a lot of transient players. You should pop into silan someday and see how active it is. I doubt any guild on arispotle has turned cat production off. The fact of the matter is that a guild can no longer supply the needs of their guild by holding one op. If this continues, eventually only a few large guilds will remain.

#47 Eingetragen von Soloreaper vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Zyeir

Daomei, the situation in leanon is very different than that of arispotle. Arispotle has a larger population with a lot of transient players. You should pop into silan someday and see how active it is. I doubt any guild on arispotle has turned cat production off. The fact of the matter is that a guild can no longer supply the needs of their guild by holding one op. If this continues, eventually only a few large guilds will remain.

This is spot on, it has to be taken up at a server level, it wont be the same on each server.

#48 Eingetragen von Waylanda(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Faa

I cannot give a definite opinion if the current cats production is enough or not. Not playing like I used to play years ago to have first hand data. But if people complain about it, there must be some problem. Usually in Ryzom an issue gets to the forums long after part of the population feel its consequences.
But I did vote "other" because the limited number of OPs that didn't change for the last how many? 8 years? encourage political ownership instead of guild content. More OPs with current cats spawn (or at least less cats spawn than in the past) would allow guilds to chose their real allies not be forced to work only as big alliances. It may enocurage smaller scale pvp as well.
More OPs of q50-150 at surface would encourage newcomers to form new guilds. OPs mean a fantastic guild content and they have a psychological importance that supercedes by far cats and mats one. An OP is a guild "home". Strong hard to attack/defend OPs in the q250 areas or in the PR would allow older guilds to make a point of honour in keeping them.

In short: keep rate low but increase OPs numbers.

Yes this is very much the case, i can say that Soul viewed its outpost in FF as "home" even though it was rocked by war countless times it has a feel of worth to us even now regardless of its cat production of which most was given away to other guilds anyway.

More level 50 to 150's would encourage more guilds to get involved and be created though if you included lala's suggestion in some form or another about maintaining outposts through either resources, missions or a combination would reduce the number of outposts a guild can hold this would also encourage more guilds to get involved, alliances being formed between guilds to help each other hold them etc.

A nice mix would be encourage guild growth, guild activity and politic's

P.S Nice to see you again Faa btw ;)

#49 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Soloreaper

Zyeir
Daomei, the situation in leanon is very different than that of arispotle. Arispotle has a larger population with a lot of transient players. You should pop into silan someday and see how active it is...
This is spot on, it has to be taken up at a server level, it wont be the same on each server.

I guess I know the situation on Arispotle somewhat better than you think as I have toons there as well as on Aniro. I agree that the shortage is felt harder with the larger population, and I do not know whether or not there are technical reasons to keep the three shards identical. If not, an adjustment according to the rate of usage would make sense.

I doubt, though, that such an adjustment, even if it would not mean reducing cat production on Leanon accordingly, would suffice to dampen the complaints. The problem I see is that roughly 9 mths ago, with patch 1.12, the devs not only throttled cat production of the outposts, but simultaneously offered a new path of obtaining cats, open to everybody, thus linearly scaling with server population. Same goes, btw., with other methods of buying cats by faction points, at least for qualities 50 and 100, and to some extent 150. And a transient population mainly comprising of free to play accounts does not need the higher qualities so dearly or even doesn't need them at all.

As long as any solution other than raising op output is met with anything from flat refusal over mockery to outright astonishment about the exotic habit of using what the devs have implemented, I fail to see a real shortage of cats, rather a shortage of cats for free. My question about what effort would be considered adequate in return for a stack of cats of given quality remains unanswered.

Btw., I agree to Bittymacod that a more flexible drill configuration would be a good thing, as probably are more active outposts of lower levels. This is independant from production rate considerations.

Zuletzt geändert von Daomei (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#50 Eingetragen von Zyeir vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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Daomei,

Your solution to use the occupations to make catalysts does not make any sense as stated previously. You are better off not making cats at all, and instead using the time to level the skill, in fact if you take into account the timer required to grind occupations to a point of producing q250 cats, it makes no sense at all. I really do not understand why you keep saying that occupations are a real alternative when they are clearly not. You keep bringing it up but the math does not pan out. If you want to refute this, please post a very detailed analysis of grind times on occupations for production of cats, as well as an estimate of the timer required to grind the occupation levels to mastery.

Furthermore your claim that OP cats are "free" is nonsense. Aside from the dapper cost, it take a good amount of coordination and resources in the form of time, weapons, and mastery of combat skills by many players to take and hold an outpost. I am sorry that on aniro new guilds have no chance at attaining one, but that should not be a reason to punish the rest of the population by making outposts irrelevant.

#51 Eingetragen von Waylanda(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt [en]

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I'm sure the folks on Anrio are pretty much the same as folks on any server in any game. Open a dialog, create alliances and indulge in diplomacy and the doors to new ventures begin to open.

All things can be achieve given the right mix of time, effort and honesty

Last visit Donnerstag 13 Juni 05:07:15 UTC

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IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

Turn Cat producton rate back up.