IDEAS FOR RYZOM


Should we change to faction based PVP?
Yes, change the deathmatch PVP to faction PVP!
Atys: Cotare, Heernis, Jellona, Kaetemi, Kaylerys, Lacuna, Luminatrix, Mermaidia, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Tomstato, Vorazun
13
48.1%
No, it makes no sense.
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bazett, Eolinius, Jorgensen, Kurutani, Placio, Wirroy, Yper, Zendae
9
33.3%
No, we are too few, there will be no PVP anymore!
Atys: Yuritau
1 (1)
3.7%
Other thoughts (Please write it down)
Atys: Gidget, Maiyr, Victoriacamper
3 (1)
11.1%
Other
Atys: Vanixia
1
3.7%
Abstain 6
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#91 [en] 

That's another part of why I don't PvP much. I have crystals and special picks from occupations, so I have no need to PvP for anything other than OPs or to guard my teammates as they dig sups. While others may have RP reasons to attack others, I do not; I fight only in defense.

@Sinvaders - Because Ryzom :)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#92 [en] 

Moniq
Heernis
Example: You don't want to kill more bandits or do tasks for the faction, but improve your fame with PVP. Why not do it this way? That would increase the PVP between the factions, wouldn't it?

I am afraid that this will also bring the following:
- Random killing for fame with no real reason (besides random killing for PvP points as it happens today)
- Killing own alts for cheap fame

If you want to get fame involved, I would prefer just loosing a small amount of fame for attacking "wrong" target. No gain from PvP at all.
I understand, that this can come to abuse, but the NH-selling is abused as well. So what? If you like to prefent this, forbid by CoC Twinks/Alts logged in at the same time ^^ On my opinion Alts/Twinks logged in at the same time as the Main is the real Cave, where all these misuses comes from.Ok back to the topic. Losing fame by killing the wrong target is good. I guess it should be under study to test the real consequences and adjuste and balaance it ( mean gain and loose fame in PVP-Actions), that should be the first step.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#93 [en] 

Heernis
Losing fame by killing the wrong target is good. I guess it should be under study to test the real consequences and adjuste and balaance it ( mean gain and loose fame in PVP-Actions), that should be the first step.

Until we can all agree on the definition of "wrong target" though, that first step is going to be problematic. For me, if you initiate aggression against me or my teammates, you are the right target regardless of who you swear allegiance to. And I doubt I am teh only one who feels that way either.

Oh, and you might want to avoid using the word "twink" unless you intend to offend. That word has different meanings to other parts of the world, and is considered quite vulgar in some places.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#94 [en] 

Gidget
My two dappers;

It has gotten boringly quiet and stupefyingly stagnant as of late. Things have to change. However, any changes to the game have to consider not only the lore but also the players. All of them. Not everyone has the same motivations or hot buttons though, so if we want Ryzom as a whole to do well, we must all keep that in mind instead of assuming that our little bubble is The Only Correct Way. That sort of thinking will result in factional PvP alright, but of an OOC type rather than in-game where it belongs. I also firmly believe the old idiom, "You can't go home again.", so I have reservations about trying to go back to a place that can never exist again.

Now, here is a crazy idea, but also serious food for thought; as there have been a lot of folks crossing the traditional lines, why not rethink what "faction" really means and figure out a way to make "Alliance vs Alliance" work? Worlds evolve, so why shouldn't Atys? We can't go back, and holding the brakes isn't working, so why not go forward? Why can't we have a new paradigm?

Sadly, I don't have any real specific thoughts on how to do that right now, but I figured I'd at least try to throw out an idea of how to reignite the spark that seems to have been lost in the hopes that it will, at worst, serve as a catalyst for someone else to put a little flesh on that framework.
Heernis
You decide a side and fight for something higher... ranger for balance...
And that is part of why I am the way I am ;)
I think that rethinking the deadlocked roles of religions and nations is also worth thinking about, but that misses the point. All factions and nations have an enemy: the Kititns. As long as the Kitins are there, there will be more focus and peace among each other. What we would need after this consideration is a final scenario for the extinction of the Kitins and a new enemy that doesn't come from the inner Atys, but awakens from the consequence of the imbalance. This new enemy is not an enemy of all. One can ally oneself with this, but in a different way as with the factions now. No new altars or troops, but an enemy that is invisible and almost unbeatable. So basically new content to really revive PVP.
Or the weakest 2 factions die out, are subject to the Kitin invasion and are wiped out after a long and intense battle. Only the last remnants remain as ruins, faith a relic of earlier times.
Perhaps a combination of both? The new threat destroys factions from invasion to invasion? Until the strongest survives? Some survive by betrayal and convert to the enemy, some join the strongest faction, from a wiped out faction. All faction battles become pointless, but the new enemy connects the homins, but also divides them. A new chapter in the history of Atys.

The new enemy or the kititns will attack the OPs frequently till they win, or the enemy will be maybe overpowerd, but have only 1 little weakness?

Ok thats not related to the main topic, but this could be also revive PVP. But in this case, all will be forced to do PVP against the new enemy or Kitins.

Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#95 [en] 

What you consider "missing the point", I see as "addressing a root cause", so it's a matter of perspective :)

We could have that sort of "Survival of the fittest" reduction of factions, or there could be a simple restructuring that leaves us with as many factions as we currently have but along different lines. After so long without a decent Kitin invasion, even they are now merely a nuisance; more of a navigational hazard to PR diggers than actual threat to hominity at large.

I like your idea of a new enemy that both connects and divides homins. Maybe there could be a sect or two of Traditionalists who seek to restore Ma'Duk and/or Jena to their previous prominence on an Atys where so many have abandoned them. Figure, neither Rangers nor Marauders are particular reverent towards either. Marauders don't even bother using the teleporters that the Kami/Karavan provide, preferring their own independent network. And if the rootball went sideways enough for people to rely more on hominity than divinity, the societal upheaval caused by such a massive loss of faith could lead to some interesting RP as well.

If control of OPs were insecure enough that you didn't have to wait for some homin to spend millions of dappers to declare a war in order to face the risk of losing it, we might see a little more action. Having them come knocking around 0200 UTC so us West coast Americans don't feel left out would also be nice.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#96 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Deutsch
Basically, this part of the forum is there to talk about ideas that can improve Ryzom, so I think this turn in brainstorming isn't wrong. You just think in all directions that fit the topic.

Because of the small number of players, 4 factions are rather counterproductive, in my humble opinion, but other players I talk to also see it that way. If there were more players, it wouldn't be worth mentioning. We have to consider making player-based decisions and fighting power a relic of the past and moving forward.

Let's take a possibility:

There can be a hidden King of the Kitins who has been discovered by whoever. He controls all other Kitins mentally in his environment. All homins join together to eliminate him in a final battle. This does not succeed. 2 factions are as good as rubble due to the constant attacks on their temples/camps (These factions cease to exist, there are only the obedient homins left who still have the title). One discovers Goo modified Kitins, which are similar to the Homins and have to live deeply in exile by the King, which can communicate by thought transmission. These are rebels in the ranks of the Kitins and want to depose the king. Can they be trusted? The Homins are badly wounded. A representative of the united homins is available as an informant for the coup of the Kitin king. The last two factions and the survivors of the other factions, as well as the exiled Kitin hominids, join forces. The camps/temples are devastated... Only one faction survives, the Kitin King is defeated. Now there are the other Homins other factions that can still carry the title of old factions, but there are no NPC representatives left. What could follow? The Hominoden Kitins will stand against the Homins after a successful coup by the King, but give them the opportunity to convert to the Kitins (as a faction) or be wiped out. Some become traitors and some stay with the Homins. How will you decide? Will you remain loyal to your faction or will you join the new enemy or the remnant of the remaining "Homin faction"?

Such a scenario could look like this.

Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#97 [en] 

Thank you for understanding and respecting that I think unconventionally :)

To my mind, four factions may be too many for a small player base, but two feels artificially low so long as there are more than about half a dozen players. How about three? Before you answer, listen to my reasoning.

For reasons previously touched on, I can see justification for merging the Marauders and Rangers even though you would think they'd be polar opposites. While both have some opposing views, both also appreciate freedom enough to be willing to fight Kitin oppression if faced with a common enemy. For the moment, lets call this faction "Hominists" just for the sake of conversation.

Then you have those who feel it better to assimilate with whatever enemy comes in rather than fight them. Maybe it'll be Megacorp returning to get all the C23, maybe the Kitin King, maybe something else. Regardless, it'll be something that seeks to do some sort of harm to Atys and the homins that occupy it (except for those who submit to their new overlords of course; they are "benevolent" masters.)

Lastly, you have those Kami and Karavan who cling to the old ways so fervently that agreeing to a truce with those they used to consider mortal enemies is preferable to the other alternatives. I see this faction as being important since it would allow those players who don't want to join either of the new factions to retain their character's old beliefs in a lore-friendly way while simultaneously allowing those ready to accept a new paradigm two opposing choices.

And there you have three sides that all have reasons to be in conflict with each other over the fate to the rootball! They would still allow for some subdivisions; I don't expect the Hominists to be totally united, and there is bound to still be some strife between the Ma'Duk and Jena crowds, but those internal conflicts are mere squabbling over details compared to the fundamental differences between the three major camps.

Last edited by Gidget (5 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#98 [en] 

Yes, I like the idea of merging the Kami and Kara factions as "traditionalists", but the preservation of the two cults, which can also mean potential for inner conflict. But also the Marauders and Rangers as two opposing "hoministic" views would be interesting. Let's call them "Rangerauders". But there will also be an inner conflict. And then there is the conflict between the humanists and the traditionalists. Religion against non-religion. Who will be able to assert himself? What consequences would that have for the historiography in Atys? I guess after some time the factions Kami and Karavan will fight for there religious ideas and get their conflict to peace and see the new conflict which comes with the Rangerauders which threatened their existence?

And in the end a new enemy brings fresh wind into the events. All united defeat the Kitins finally, but this brings only partial peace, because a new enemy of the Homins awakes.

Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#99 [en] 

Ok for once i want to post a not-so-constructive comment..
Sorry for that, but here it is :)
Still my question-mark is real here.


That very nice to read, and interesting but... i doubt it will change anything no?

People will still prefer to kill horncher's, or to dig choice materials, or to go wasteland to dig XL and Supreme.
Not taking part into any Homins conflicts, not taking part into the Lore evolution neither, they will still use the right teleportation system that they love, without reading the Lore or get an interest in it.

PvP won't improve at all, people will still spite on the word PvP, hate it, would not see the points to fight against each others because of "IRL" principle.

The mentality did change, or better say, a big part of the RP/PvP driven community did leave, so we deal with the rest now.

Rare are interested into faction development or play, nor Lore/Stories progression when it come to Homins conflicts.

People are happy when it come to doing fight against env, and digging for a useless goals (aka the simulation of the goo in void.. just a joke).
But when it come to Hominity conflicts, then no ones play.

This is the actual Ryzom.. (not saying its wrong or right here, just a fact).
Most of the nice picture you see on website promoting the game are from an Era of Ryzom where there was actual fight, and people was willed to do so, with pleasure even.

If you should replace actually the picture to reflect the truth, what would we get?
Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture?
Leveling on mobs picture?
2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?

Nothing that can push people to come in this niche game, instead of going to play a MMORPG.

We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King..

So do it will change anything ? I would really like you to prove me wrong really.. at least for the future of this game.

Otherwise nice story i like it :) and agree with the fact that we are not enough for 46 thousands factions.. at minima 2, maxima 3 would be good.

Last edited by Revvy (5 years ago)

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#100 [en] 

That's a fact, even if i play Marau because that's the way i want to play.. Marauder faction and Ranger faction is too much for the actual Ryzom ( and a pain for Dev etc ).

About the War between the Matis and Fyros, that was like, the BEST PvP event EVER, since, as Revvy said, that was an another Era and players were more PvP, so, that was a great fight with lot of Homins involved.

Ryzom as change, become a 3D Facebook or whatever social media you want it to be, where players are doing the same they would do on their life, gardering... hunting... etc.

Maybe i'm not right, but.... Not sure that was the way Nevrax ( Society who've dev Ryzom ) planned it will become...... this (they would probably cry, actually... :P )

But, i'm kinda off topic, so.. gonna be all.

* throw Unicorn power and disapear *

Last edited by Mithian (5 years ago)

#101 [de] 

Well, the game is older than its original life span decided by Nevrax.

#102 [en] 

Revvy
The mentality did change, or better say, a big part of the RP/PvP driven community did leave, so we deal with the rest now.

Rare are interested into faction development or play, nor Lore/Stories progression when it come to Homins conflicts.

People are happy when it come to doing fight against env, and digging for a useless goals (aka the simulation of the goo in void.. just a joke).
But when it come to Hominity conflicts, then no ones play.

This is the actual Ryzom.. (not saying its wrong or right here, just a fact).
Most of the nice picture you see on website promoting the game are from an Era of Ryzom where there was actual fight, and people was willed to do so, with pleasure even.

If you should replace actually the picture to reflect the truth, what would we get?
Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture?
Leveling on mobs picture?
2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?

Nothing that can push people to come in this niche game, instead of going to play a MMORPG.

We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King..

So do it will change anything ? I would really like you to prove me wrong really.. at least for the future of this game.

Otherwise nice story i like it :) and agree with the fact that we are not enough for 46 thousands factions.. at minima 2, maxima 3 would be good.

I understand your doubts, and I totally agree with you. Because many PVP players have gone (because of misdevelopments?), there remains a small player base that PVP would really practice in a role-specific scenario, but still too few to actually do it. Most people, like me, are happy with PVE because, as far as I'm concerned, the opponents who really run PVP are much more levelled and experienced than I am. So I think that's a deterrent for now.

As far as I'm concerned, they weren't pictures of "Wheel of fortune event picture? OOC events easter and xmas picture? Leveling on mobs picture? 2 or 3 Homins cybering at the stable at FH ?" but that rather: We are far from the events of the Fyros Emperor against Matis King....
I've never experienced anything like it and I can't understand it either. A few invasions on Yrkanis or Pyr, that's it.

What I personally don't like about PVP is when the opponents ignore each other, insult each other or spread bad rumors etc.. That's something I can't stand to die for. That's also one reason why I retired there.

Ok back to the actual topic.
1) Would it be good to know how many in principle would be willing to do more PVP and in what way. There would be a survey very helpful
2) A reduction of fractions, by whatever means, is URGENTly necessary due to the player base. In order to grow again, one should start small again.
3) More focus on bugfixes and new content. (Not the Gubani wheel, which is really nice, but doesn't really captivate a new player, but is more of a pastime for long-term players)
4) The lore should not only be text, but also be filmed with exciting sequences.
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
6) Small videos are nice. Many young players watch games on Youtube. When I search for Ryzom and filter by upload date and limited to this year, it comes out: Ryzom Youtube Search. Also live stream LetsPlays e.g. would also do it, what could lure new players.
7) As I found out, players aren't really interested, or just lazy or don't have enough time on platforms to promote Ryzom, which is also a reason why Ryzom doesn't really reach everyone who is interested. Or simply, players are miserably organized on the subject.

Ok, these are the points I can come up with for your contribution. You don't have to and shouldn't leave everything to the Ryzom team, but there should also be a player team that organizes such things. But you have to do it ;-) Selfish action is really wrong at the place, I say that especially to myself, because everyone is it in his own way.
Finally, I think that a long-term player should take on the role of organizing players. I am definitely there when tasks are structurally distributed among players. This organizer should preferably not be involved in the Ryzom team.

Last edited by Heernis (5 years ago)

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#103 [en] 

Heernis
I've never experienced anything like it and I can't understand it either. A few invasions on Yrkanis or Pyr, that's it.
Same here. Either it happened pre-Merge, or it was all on the opposite side of the clock from when any American with a day job could see it.
Heernis
1) Would it be good to know how many in principle would be willing to do more PVP and in what way. There would be a survey very helpful
Agreed, but I don't feel like being the one to set it up :p
Heernis
4) The lore should not only be text, but also be filmed with exciting sequences.
Quite true! My only reservation there is that animation takes dev-hours, which are a finite resource that might be better allocated elsewhere... unless we get more volunteers from The Forge stepping up.
Heernis
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
I'm sure that there are folks from The Forge who would be willing to guide you.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#104 [en] 

Heernis
Ok back to the actual topic.
5) I would be willing to develop the lore further (to help), but how can you do that, if you have no idea of the process, how can you do that?
7) As I found out, players aren't really interested, or just lazy or don't have enough time on platforms to promote Ryzom, which is also a reason why Ryzom doesn't really reach everyone who is interested. Or simply, players are miserably organized on the subject.

Ok, these are the points I can come up with for your contribution. You don't have to and shouldn't leave everything to the Ryzom team, but there should also be a player team that organizes such things. But you have to do it ;-) Selfish action is really wrong at the place, I say that especially to myself, because everyone is it in his own way.
Finally, I think that a long-term player should take on the role of organizing players. I am definitely there when tasks are structurally distributed among players. This organizer should preferably not be involved in the Ryzom team.

Ryzom Team can be joined by anyone so why should it not be Ryzom Team? Also for 5) you best tell Tamarea on Rocket.Chat or write an email to tamarea@ryzom.com that you would be interested in lore.

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#105 [en] 

I didn't bother to read the entire thread, I got there was something about older version of fame calculation and some "new enemy". Somehow it should bring back the interest in tagged PvP in particular and even PvP in general. No, it won't.

Let me explain you by what factors any PvP-community is driven (Ryzom being no exception).

1) Achievement - and by this term I mean not silly titles or checkmarks in Achievement list, I mean the feeling that you have reached something, that you and your team / guild / alliance have changed the world around.

2) Rewards - be it loot from enemies or their property, or PvP points, badges, whatever. The stuff you get if you win.

3) PvP mechanics and PvP itself as a process - interesting mechanics with a lot of variety and theorycrafting, engaging activity in which one have to think and act fast, have to know the game, with lots of things to choose from, fitting different playstyles - that's what keep players interested and makes them logging in game.


Now, in Ryzom, there is:

- no achievements to speak of. Win 100 fights or lose 100 fights, your faction neither gain nor lose anything. Your actions in PvP don't matter, end of story.

- no rewards to speak of. Rewards obtained with PvP points are scarce and aren't that good, the only thing that is useful is the skirt and crystals for Maras.

- mechanics and PvP process are so-so. There is strong emphasis on quality of gear and random numbers. The variety is low.

Consider all of this and you won't be surprised why PvP community in Ryzom is a small bunch and why PvP players don't stick around for long, when there are so many other games that have to offer much more to them.

So, when there is a new idea about a "PvP revamp" of any sort, I measure it against three main points I have mentioned above. If the idea doesn't help or improve any of them, I consider it a waste of developer's time.

Edited 10 times | Last edited by Kimmerin (5 years ago)

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"People let the same problem make them miserable for years when they could just say "So what". That's one of my favorite things to say. "So what". - Andy Warhol.

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