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#46 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Craftjenn
I think it is true that differences cause misunderstandings and disputes, but they are life: the possibility of change, of evolution. Think the same thing all together - what I call "Pensée de groupe" or "groupthink" - for me is death.
...
"ok they fight, loose time and energy, etc.... but I feel like...[/p][p]they fight on details, that on most of ideas, I feel we all agree".
..
(W)e are all "the stupid troll" of an some other homin :p
I agree 2,000% with all of those!

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#47 Added by Tryroamer 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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i beg to disagree with the i suppose as wisdom repeated words: "we are all the 'stupid troll' of someone else" <-- does the troll concept include the desire and pursued purpose of disrupting an other's dispute or simple chat.

I have no such intention. I am nobody's troll.

Nor do i side with the comment, that we differ only about details. There can and do exist principal differences in fundamentals concerning which there can be no compromise, though practicality demands often that one tolerate and even respect the contraty views respective fundamental principles of others.

as for the topic in question: is PVP RP.. i side with those who say: No! It is not RP

RP can include PVP, but PVP is in its very nature not itself RP

Again i make the attempt also to point out, hopefully this time not out of topic: RP is not the same as playing a role in ryzom, it is but one way to play a role in ryzom the game. To illustrate: CSR and GM definitely play a role in the ryzom game, in that they control and watch over the game, ryzom and its future development.


I play a role in the game simply by being involved with it and definitely by subbing it. But none of that which i do, none of the role that i play in the game is RP. Not in the least! and i would not have it any other way.

So again if state it simply: role <> RP <> RPG ... rather they are all related but not identical possible modes of interaction. Thereby is only playing a role at all, as such, inevitable.

#48 Added by Revvy 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Tryroamer
I play a role in the game simply by being involved with it and definitely by subbing it. But none of that which i do, none of the role that i play in the game is RP. Not in the least! and i would not have it any other way.

So again if state it simply: role <> RP <> RPG ... rather they are all related but not identical possible modes of interaction. Thereby is only playing a role at all, as such, inevitable.

:') .... *sigh*

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#49 Added by Jorgensen 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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i struggle to make sense of some of your posts, tryroamer. I can see that you are passionate, but the actual information you present is sometimes bewildering.

Last edited by Jorgensen (5 years ago)

#50 Added by Naema 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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@Naema, I think (at least it's my opinion and maybe I am wrong who knows), forcing people to be tag and having more gameplay restriction (it's a bad thing but there is pro and cons) can bring back faction sense (for rangers it's another story I agreed). Right now, it looks like in the game everyone is friend with everyone, which in term of ingame politics is not interesting at all ... etc

I like your comments Sinvaders.
Currently on Atys it may be that more people came over after server merge from Arispotle than Aniro, and for the most part, we were all kind of friendly to eachother between OP wars, We even trained together sometimes, but during a war, there was real trash talking between players! Very nasty talking. Arispotle seemed to be really about balancing the guild powers. One guild dominated the server as Kami followers and caused a lot of anger for some, including me. (Now, many of those players are in my guild, XD). After the server merge, it was interesting to see how Aniro players played, and Leanon too. I was even threatened in the void while digging that "My imminent death was near." I laughed because I never saw that before and they could do nothing to me in the void anyways.

So, I propose that the Event team put together more "Political confrontational' events perhaps. Some Including Marauders and their stance. So that we don't have to just rely on the OP wars. And I don't mean just attacking the guards at the main cities, maybe something else....?

This is just a suggestion.

But I think that the Marauders have a role to play, not just be PvPer's. But Pvp can be part of the events too of course, don't get me wrong! The event teams need to figure it out. I think the Event team suffered when the one who was overseeing the marauder faction left the game, so it has taken a while for them to get going on marauder events again it seems.

#51 Added by Zatarga 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Player vs Player – involving conflict between two or more said players.

Role Play – act out or perform the part of a person or character.

Based upon these definitions and how I have seen Atys been played through-out the years, PvP is not RP but I am going to go off the trail a bit here and make a suggestion that will most likely not be warmly received. Over the years, this game has evolved and grown, contrary to what a number of newbies who have joined and complained about one thing or another but I believe that if we want to truly have a “PvP” realm, we need to eliminate the “tagged” action and have all toons be attackable anywhere at anytime to emulate reality, that would be the true meaning of PvP and survival. Once the conflict is over and (if or when a toon dies) that said toon has a cool-down period where they cannot play (either game-time or real-time – does not matter) but that would also make it more interesting and I believe more challenging.

Regarding Role Play – after all, this is a game and are we not all “role playing” in some way, shape, form or fashion?

Anyways, have fun and happy training.

Godspeed, Zatarga

P.S., I know that some toons already take things way too serious and this suggestion will never happen because of those crazed, insane toons but just a thought.

#52 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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@Zatarga - I think the type of gamer that would enjoy that sort of gameplay already plays games like Rust either in addition to or (more likely) instead of Ryzom.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#53 Added by Revvy 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
@Zatarga - I think the type of gamer that would enjoy that sort of gameplay already plays games like Rust either in addition to or (more likely) instead of Ryzom.
Could be.. and ? i don't see the point of your comment hm

Zatarga
we need to eliminate the “tagged” action and have all toons be attackable anywhere at anytime to emulate reality
lol.. that would be the hardcore mode Ryzom :P

Btw, if something like this is one day implemented, that would require a lot of simulated security for players.

First we would need to increase safe aura perimeter close to teleporter, and include strong "guardians" in the Cities.
That should react against the "evil" aura a player have on his fame, like some prime hunters.
But only in some part (the most important -> politic quarter) of the city.
Just to keep players interaction Heroic/Evil action/consequence mechanics.

If too much crime in a cities (like Citizen cannot kill the attacker, then Guardians pop and wipe them).

The more a player will kill "for free" the more he will get malus and penalty on his fame/aura/char
(getting chased by "good" players / Heroic, appearing on a map for everyone as a red skull etc)

Every actions should have consequence, bad or good, bad action should really restrict the gameplay somehow, more than good.

Outpost would be limited to GvG, and regions would be owned by Karavan or Kami cults once again and FvF,
With Spires and Temple/Totem that provide malus/bonus on your buff/stats depending your faction's.
Once a week or two, otherwise the regions are back to normal/controled, without the Totem/Temple game.

Then its time to stuff again, hunt and digs.
Random invasion could come at any moments, and have real action on the game !

If an invasion is not countered in a cities or zone, the zone is invaded with infinite spawn, unless the tunnel is filled/destroyed again.

This will force players to work in real league, all together's to prevent the kittins menace, and will pause the fight between factions/guilds a bit.

Players would encounter a world-boss if the invasion aren't stopped, or by events - which would require the full server to kill it (a Kittin queen in the KL ? sure.)

A way to pex faster should be introduced, maybe with catalyzer for master (available only via OP)
That will force players to regroup into strong guilde, and fight together for a common guild/faction goals.

etc etc.. dream on dream on :)

(and btw, most of the idea are just The Saga of Ryzom, how it should have been from start, and planned in the code before bankrupt :sadface:)

Last edited by Revvy (5 years ago)

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#54 Added by Fyrosfreddy 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
@Zatarga - I think the type of gamer that would enjoy that sort of gameplay already plays games like Rust either in addition to or (more likely) instead of Ryzom.

I gotta agree with Gidget ... Having started playing 15 years ago ... it was an era when WoW was the dominant force in the MMO arena and folks played Ryzom because "It was not WoW". When PvP was 1st introduced we immediately lost a a huge % of our player base (I have been tracking no of subs long time). The server ate my 1st toon and I was locked out of Ryzome for a few months ... Ya think I named my toon FF ? That was more of a gentle dig to the staff "Hey fix my main toon so i can get him back in game and get rid of this silly name".

There came a time when the player base on Ari decided with no change in game mechanics, that they were going to allow each player to play their own game.

Everybody knew each other and there wee xxx people who PvP'd and yyy people who didn't and zzz people who flip flopped back and forth. This period is where Ryzom peaked subs wise.

So lets say we have xx players why want all out PvP and yy players who want no part of it. If the model is everybody gets to play like Brad Marchan, then the yy players are gone. (If ya don't know who BM is watch the video.
https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/bruins-brad-marchand-punches-scott- harrington-in-back-of-head/

If the model is everyone has to be a care bear, then ya gonna lose xx.

Okay, it took me a while to get here but here's the point. Lets say that one of those is 40% of the total and the other is 60% ... and the game mechanics are changed to favor the 60 %. Can the game sustain itself with just 350 subscriptions ? ... that's my concern. If ya like it here and ya want Atys to exist, I don't see how reducing the population is conducive to that goal.

And frankly. getting back to what Gidget said ... there's a lotta games out there that do the PvP thing that are "fresher" (came out in this decade)and have a better hold on that market segment.

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#55 Added by Laoviel 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Ok, this thread is going to circle around aimlessly, due to it having quite an open-ended question.I would separate two ideas here:

- PvP, as a concept, can definitely be roleplay. Or rather, roleplay is channeled and performed through violent means, e.g. PvP. The lore is clearly not against it, on the contrary, homins have been shown to be quite xenophobic and war-like several times in the past. Killing someone for good, or damaging them until they can't get up (coma) should be a favorite pastime on the planet.

- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

Does this answer the question? I believe it does. Does it help? No, because there is not way to restrict PvP mechanically while still leaving options on the table for all the roleplay combinations where it might be needed / useful.

Most games with lots of players solve this issue by having separate servers for PVE and PVP, because the two crowds are quite different. Obviously Ryzom cannot afford it, so instead we get this unhappy recipe where we *can* kill each other, but people will frown really really strong at you if you do it in the "wrong" way. In turn, that just shuts PvP down as an option, except in highly controlled scenarios (outposts, supernodes etc).

That would be all.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Laoviel (5 years ago)

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My home is always sweet Yrkanis..

#56 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

#57 Added by Moniq 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Sinvaders
...and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way...

As well as guilds (and factions) should teach own users. And not recruit on Silan those who know nothing. It is a pity to meet a homin who don't even know what allegiance is his guild.

#58 Added by Luminatrix 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Sinvaders
Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

There is no "right way" to play the game.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#59 Added by Revvy 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Luminatrix
Sinvaders
Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

There is no "right way" to play the game.

That probably why we have less than 200 players max on the server a week. Not simultaneous ofc.
And at NA time, or night EU all the capitals and regions are empty.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Revvy (5 years ago)

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#60 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Sinvaders
No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

Not following basic principles? By saying that the problem is freedom, you blatantly attack what many consider a basic principle. I feel that the real problem is that some people don't like having their core beliefs insulted and demeaned the way they constantly are by those who refuse to respect those that play in any way other than strict fundamentalist adherence to lore while perma-tagged.

The right way? That sounds pretty self-entitled. Would you like me tell you how to do things, or would you feel the same way I do about it? How about if you just try respecting those who are different? I try to, but it's hard to respect those that want the world altered to punish me for simply not being exactly like them.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

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