Hello;

I understand all the points raised so far; but i politely disagree with some specific parts my co-posters focused on; and some specific parts of what was said on the meeting by other players.

I think a few things need to be said that people tend to forget; and offer some insight on the actual situation with the outposts (and I call anyone who believes I am lying or I am miscostruing the situation to challenge me). Having been a Leader of a Kami guild for a couple of years; I very well know exactly how the Kami faction works.

First of all and my fundamental point:

MMORPGS are 24/7 online games; aren't they?

Therefore i do not understand why we should let people always choose whatever time that suits them to defend their Outposts. What has happened to the element of surprise; to the simple fact that in online games, wars happen and that they are inevitable; and in addition; are meant to make the other faction or opposition, struggle?

With Phase 2; this can never happen; has never happened. That's a fact.

Asharan and others in meeting; raised the very unfortunate argument that attacks at 04;00 FR are hard to defend. That is not the case at all. It would be a good argument; had the opposing factions the numbers to actually challenge the outposts at any given time.

As someone who declares at this time; and mind you i also live in EU and hence it's not a good time neither for me; nor my guildies; or my friends; but it's the only time that actually gives us at least some percentage of a chance to get something to Phase 2; (yes dear friends a percentage of a chance we get and nothing more) this is by and large an excuse many people use to prevent this change in how OPs work.

Any CSR/GM can actually check the numbers and vouch for what i say:

In the last one month I have declared ten + ops; about half of them at 02;00 FR or later; and of all those OPs at those times; aside from one; either my guild took under its control or went to Phase 2. (Excluding yesterday and Excluding the one an inactive guild held and the attack wasnt even discovered...No comment there).

IN ALL but one OP Fight (the q 50 desert at 04;00 FR); Kamis were double the size of my team. (Sure some times we were 6 people; but we have been 9 as well) and all of that for q 100 OPs. Therefore even at 04;00 FR the faction that complains about these changes; the kami faction; can produce at least fifteen homins to fight for them.

But you see even for q 100 op; at any given time the Kami Faction can bring forth two teams; and the whole marauder factions isn't two teams in total.

Therefore it's not that you cannot defend the outpost; it is that; u cannot (usually) not go into Phase 2. And this has happened over and over:

We declare at 04;00 FR; we get th +1 because we cannot get more; since we are just a team and we are faced vs 2 teams + harder NPCs; you wipe us; then you are like: We gonna get back at Phase 2.

And that's the gist of the issue here:

Some people want to continue to monopolize the OPs; because the thinking is as follows:

Let them get Phase One: with as low a TH as possible; we gonna move phase 2 to 22;00 FR; then bring 25 people; and win op.

And this is exactly what is happening.

And the situation needs to change because:

Exhibit A). I do not understand why anyone feels entitled to the outposts; especially since a batlle already took place and they lost phase one; this is a game of give and take; of chance; you lose some you win some; think of it as being in bed and losing madakoo; so what; should we make bosses spawn at times we are all active and online as well?

Also; at our recent siege at WoM oupost; we used some very cool game mechanics to manage (a team of six) to get th 5 (enough for phase 2) vs fifteen people.

With Phase 2 always ever-present; there would be no reason for us to even bother to use some game mechanics; think; organize; or structure new ways of attacking; since well: let's do Phase at 22;00 FR; bring the whole faction and kill them.

Exhibit B) Let's all realize that many one member guilds have outposts. And we are not talking about q 50 ops which would be okay; but q 200 even q 250.

Therefore whatever the time; they cannot defend them on their own. Therefore they actually want to find the convenient for them time; to gather everyone to defend the one person's guild outposts. And this situation continues to happen every day.

Exhibit C) What Asharan's guild has done; La lune Eternale. They created an Alt Guild; called Les Guerries D' Atys; when people started complaining that La lune Eternalle monopolizes the outposts within the faction..Then they let Audeva's alt called Yuki be leader of this new guild.(Kami World Order problems I know: Hey how many outposts does this guild have...7..Ah we only have 3 let's get more from them) (The Dev, the csr teams; the gms can check Kami Meeting logs because I was still a member of the faction and I know exactly how it happened; to verify my saying). Then they moved some members of La Lune into that guild, and called it a new guild, they got 5 Outposts, and they are happy.

On atys we have a guild that has eleven outposts; and cannot even produce a full team most often than not. And they are allowed to keep them; simply because of phase 2.

Now Imagine you are a new player; and come to atys; and read this...Wouldn't you be "What am i reading?"....Why bother go into another faction? Why even bother?

Exhibit D) At least 2 kami guilds that have outposts right now; are inactive; or have one active member at best. They log in; check if their op is under attack; then log out. T

In addition: the other members of the faction are very well aware of this fact; so they go check for them if the outposts are under attack; and already take notes when to to defend for phase 2.

Exhibit E) For an mmorpg that has 4 factions; don't you think it's at least slightly offensive to have those other 3 factions just scrapping by; and fundamentally destroy their RP by forcing them; due to the way I described of how the last faction works; to merge together to get ONE op?

I think the evidence here is telling of the situation; I could even bear to mention a million other things; and will do if asked or provoked.

But well; where does it stop?

I for once; welcome the changes and the abolishment of Phase 2. For anyone saying that she/he will quit; be my guest; this is a planet made for everyone not for those that think they are entitled to the Outposts by virtue of being Kamists; and that take every inch of advantage they can have and use it in their favor. Saying I quit is not constructive at all; and if anything highlights exactly my original point:

You cannot be satisfied with 95% of the cake; you MUST have it all; because you think you are entitled to the cake.

If anything; me; my guild; my friends; that are silly enough to dig; stay awake; go to our jobs without sleep; dont meet our loved ones; because we elected to get the decimal percentage of a chance at the Outpost at 04;00 FR or whatever the time; are the ones who should be thinking of quiting; because it us who are running the fool's errand. And yet; we are still here; fighting; and fundamentally not threatening to quit but being constructive instead in the hopes that the dynamics in our rootball will shift.

Sacré North....
Toujours aussi prompt à mal interpréter les propos des autres et qui illustre pour le coup trés bien les rancoeurs (visiblement North, "hais" les kamis et surtout la guilde "Lune éternelle" ) qui existent dans le jeu à cause du fonctionnement des OPS :)
Merci North :)


Alors pour être clair (comme visiblement certain n'ont pas compris mes propos), je ne suis pas contre la refonte proposée, avec une seule phase...

Je dis juste que cela va créer un autre déséquilibre qui mécontentera beaucoup de joueurs et donc qu'au final ce n'est pas la solution au problème actuel...
Le mal persistera...



A bon entendeur, bon jeu :)
Asharan

If by highlighting exactly how the situation is; is construed as hate; then yeah I guess; you are right...(this was sarcasm;p)

And also atys is much bigger than the Moon, Ash, much bigger than the Kamis; and much bigger than myself as well; keep that in mind;p..

Therefore I have nothing to gain from the proposed changes personally; because the Phase One also affects me; and affects everyone. But that's exactly the point; that everyone will be in the same boat; unlike the situation that is happening now.

Also this is not about the Kami faction; it's about all factions; but seeing that in the Ryzom forge meeting; it was indeed kamistes thats threatened to quit; and tended to over dramatize and over play the 04;00 FR time attacks; this is why my post was directed towards them. Also; noone else has Ops; so ofc the information i provided was on that end.

In addition; i referred to specific points in your post; and not its entirety; and I made reference to the Ryzom Forge meeting that occured; and the comments that some people left on the channel that day. This is all:)

Star:)

Moi, je me demande pourquoi personnes ne se posent les bonnes questions...

Vous débattez sur la refonte de quelque chose qui n'a aucun interêts (youhou depuis tout le monde devrait avoir ces GHs remplit de tek/v10/rubbarn etc).

Pourquoi ne pas profiter de la refonte pour changer la donne et rendre les OPs réellement intéressant ? En permettant l'ajout de bâtiments (aller au pif une étable).

À croire que la seule chose qui intéresse les gens c'est d'être certains de pouvoir conserver leurs foreuses inutiles.

Rendez les OPs intéressant et après on pourra parler d'une refonte.

Enlever le coté pvp des avants postes c est vraiment une belle c....ie..

Pour moi, c est une des choses les plus interessantes du jeu, Je me fiche pas mal qu il y ait de la tension entre les joueurs c est meme plutot bien, cela fait parti du jeu et cela demontre un interet certain pour le jeu.

Il y a une refonte evidente a faire ,

-en terme de phase 'attaque / defense' car cela me semble beaucoup trop long 2h par phase.

- en terme de recompenses , actuellement seulement quelques aps sont interessants et fournissent des matieres premieres vraiment utiles. Donc je trouve tres bien qu un ap 50 puisse fournir du 250.

- en terme d'equilibre, peut etre faut il reserver un ap de chaque qualité pour les combats GvG cela permettra a des guildes fortes et autres que kamis d avoir un ap de qualite.


Zvo

Bonsoir Sinvaders,

Pour être honnête, j'ai même jamais utilisée une MP d'OP lol
Alors, les supprimer me poserait aucun souci ;)

Dans l'ordre les batiments que j'aimerais pouvoir poser sur les OPs :

- Une tour de défense

Qui donne des bonus aux défenseurs ou malus aux attaquants, selon le choix effectué

- Un batiment d'élevage

Afin d'élever des varinx ( ou autre bestiole méchante :) ) grace à un nouvau métier et compétence à développer pour défendre l'OP

- Une charreterie
Afin de fabriquer des charrettes ayant une contenance énorme mais réduisant énormément la vitesse du toub tracteur afin d'aider les foreurs dans leur taches quotidiennes

- Une échope de guilde
Afin de vendre les créations des artisans de la guilde


Bonsoir Zvorax

2 H c'est trop long, surtout pour ls attaques après 23H00 ( Tiens Norh, vient encore de déclarer la guerre à un OP luneux à 3H00 du mat lol vivement la phase 2 à 20H00 :) )


Des op Q50 qui fournissent des MP Q250...
Nul...

Dans ce cas-là, autant mettre que des op Q250 partout...
Ou alors, les Op n'ont plus de lvl et donnent des Mp de qualité aléatoire à chaque nouvelle prise par une autre guilde

Ca ferait du supsense, une guilde qui gagne un OP ne saurait jamais quelle qualité de Mp elle aura ( elle pourra avoir une qualité supérier ou inférieure à la précédente guilde)...


Il n'y a pas d'équilibre dans Ryzom ( et dans les autres jeux) lol
Le croire c'est se mentir à soi-même ;)

Le nombre fera toujours la force... 45 Homins Q250 gagneront toujours contre 10 Homins Q250
Y a qu'à voir les alliances kara-Marau-libre-aggro vs Kamis sur les op ;)

Pour avoir une notion d'équité, faut donner un OP à chaque guilde, qui ne peut être ataqué LOL


PS : Bien sûr ce n'est que mon avis qui ne fait pas loi ;)


:)
Asharan

Asharan,

Concernant les aps 50, il n a jamais été question que l ap ne donne que des matières premieres de niveau 250 ca me parait évident, mais que parfois il puisse y en avoir une qui sort cela n 'est pas 'nul' du tout comme tu le dis si bien.

Zvo

Autant pour moi

J'ai zappé ce point... si c'est 1 MP Q250 de manière aléatoire, pourquoi pas :)

Bonjour,

Aujourd'hui, la faction Kami gagne la plupart des batailles au prix d'efforts modérés. Vous êtes plus nombreux, soit; mais es-ce quand c'est facile ça ne devient pas ennuyeux? Pourquoi es-ce que vous continuez à forer en primes ou à checker les Rois? Parce-que c'est incertain, parce-que ça demande de l'implication; parce-que vous avez passé du temps à comprendre les mécanismes du jeu et à pouvoir en tirer parti.

Es-ce qu'il ne faut pas voire dans cette refonte un nouveau défi à relever? Comme si vous repreniez cet aspect du jeu de zéro; il faudra définir de nouvelles stratégies; les guerres qui ressemblent aujourd'hui à une guerre de tranchée se feront plus à la façon d'une guérilla.


Je ne suis pas convaincu que cette refonte apportera plus d'équilibre. Une faction plus nombreuse sera toujours en mesure de mener plus de batailles sans avoir à mobiliser tous ses effectifs à chaque fois. Mais au moins les plus petites factions pourront, pour un temps au moins, profiter des avant postes.


Personnellement, j'aurais plutôt poussé pour un système de batailles plus symétrique. Le GvG n'a pas vraiment de sens tel que les guildes sont faites aujourd'hui car très peu de guildes sont en mesure d'aligner ne serais-ce qu'une équipe entière. Un système GvG amènerait simplement à un guildage massif des alliés juste avant la bataille pour avoir un maximum de monde le jour J.

En revanche, on pourrait limiter le nombre de joueurs; par exemple 18 joueurs maximum, sauf si l'attaquant et le défenseur s'entendent pour augmenter ce nombre. Le système de tag attaque/défense/neutre serait remplacé par une league-op dans chaque camp au nombre de places limité; seuls les officiers des guildes attaquant et défendant seraient en mesure de leaguer des joueurs.

Le gros avantage de ce système, en plus de permettre des combats équilibrés ou le talent de chacun et les stratégies apporteraient une véritable plus value, serait de ne pas forcer les joueurs qui ne sont pas attirés par cet aspect du jeu à prendre part aux batailles. A l'opposé, le gros inconvénient serait qu'il favoriserait un certain élitisme qui exclurait les joueurs moins expérimentés.

Zarden

Il ne peut avoir d'équilbre dans Ryzom, sauf si on limite les guildes à 1 joueur et interdit les combats de faction et qu'on limite les lvl à 1 ;)
là, tous les joueurs seraient égaux :)

Par définition, les personnages uppent pour devenir plus fort pour pouvoir "massacrer" leurs ennemis lol

C'est la vie,
C'est l'Homin ;)


Pourquoi pas attribuer un lvl aux guildes en fonction de certains critères ( a définir ) et impossible à une guilde d'attaquer un OP de lvl inférieur ?

Les petites guildes auraient des op et se fighteraient entre- elles, et idem pour les moyennes, les grosses...


Bon jeu
Asharan

@Asharan Peut-que que je me trompe, hein, mais.. Toutes les idées dans tes postes pour moi traduisent bien la vision des choses des Kamistes: La suprématie... Avec un système où tu es invulnérable à telle ou telle attaques.

Si tu veux faire une lvl de guilde, alors, tu passe les OPs en full GvG, par contre, sinon, ça n'a pas de sens puisque tu as la faction derrière.

( mon poste va être franglais, pour répondre à Gidget )

@Gidget You're right, lot of US/CA/ETC players aren't on for OP war most of the time, and i didn't see them qq. But, you must know that's quite a french things :joy:

Même si je ne participe plus aux OP, je trouve la futur maj plutot pas mal. C'est un nouveau défi à relever comme le dit Zarden et au lieu d'avoir un gros tas de kami contre un gros tas de kara, ce qui est d'un ennuie mortel pour ma part, ça donnera des combats avec moins de joueurs mais donc plus stratégiques.

Ryzom Forge meeting report – November 19 2018

Refactoring of the OP (Ulukyn)

Q : So, everyone will "fight" to declare first when there will be discount?
R : No, each guild has the same discounts that it decides to apply in the continent or continents of it’s choice. However, only the first attacks are concerned with a reset every 15 days.

Q : How many Guild Points will it cost to attack?
R : Not determined yet.

You are therefore all invited to ask your questions, criticize, propose or even approve on the post whose link follows: https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/29200/0

Shooting weapons (Ulukyn)

The guild islands (Ulukyn)

Q : Space storage?
R : Yes, we think about increasing space storage.

Q : On the guild Island, are we gonna get new building? Like Farm to make packers food or something? Or maybe do a breeding? ( With packers or Kizoar, or Gubanis, for example ) ? And new occ for it?
R : With Ark it is possible yes, it was possible to make a wheel of fortune 100% in Ark. So service buildings yes, they would be good little projects for Arkitects, because very often they would like to do things but don't know what to do.

Q : Will the Island be buildable and/or directed by all the members from the guild?
R : Good question. The easiest way would be to allow everyone to create a scene and let the chief and/or senior officers import scenes from other players. This will allow everyone to participate in the construction of the island. As for pnjs and creatures, there it will be the chief and/or senior officers only.

End of meeting

Thanks from the participants for the Anlor Winn event, the new wheel and new stuffs.

Here you can mainly see the people who feel disadvantaged because they are so "few". Or as you read over and over again, how to increase the chances of small guilds with few (active) members is actually being thought about, or how to improve the chances of small factions.

To put it briefly, how to break the dominance of the Kamis.

What can the Kamis do for the situation? Is it our fault that apparently more people are still opting for the Kamis? This is like wanting to punish homeowners just because a lot of people have to live in rent.

More or less, these changes will punish the guilds that actively seek members. Or you get punished for becoming a kami.

I heard a lot of Karavan players were lost, after the merging of the servers, because a lot of Americans were Karavan and couldn't cope with the "multi-language huddle. No idea.
But the merging of the servers was a long time ago. There were enough Karavan guilds who had time to recruit members to stand up to the Kamis on an equal footing. So don't criticize the system, criticize yourself.
There is no mention here of the fact that certain people are weakening through internal quarrels. Ergo they do have fewer fighters again in the next attack and for that the Kamis are to be punished?
The Kamis are a unit, the others now form unnatural alliances with little substance.
The fact that there are excesses caused by over-motivated people, such as attacks at 3 o 'clock, in the morning of European time, is a problem for many people, because of work or study. But the Kamis have recognised the problem and are bringing people up to face the problem. Besides, it is hardly believed, many Marauders probably also have to go to work, or school in order not to endanger their real life. Just speaking for me, I don not have a problem with the right to attack in the middle of the (european) night.
Ok, so much to accusations of Kami dominance

If I read this correctly here, there are thoughts to expropriate the current outpost owners virtually by system and preferably small guilds can attack an outpost. In other words, large guilds can no longer attack, because there will always be any little ones who are preferred.
What is this? Do you want to spoil players who are actively involved in the game? Have you ever thought that large guilds have worked out this greatness? That the leaders and officers of these guilds are online virtually daily? That these guilds have been working on their reputations and standing for years?
Small guilds often consist of players who have just outgrown Silan and are starting a guild. They should be allowed to attack outposts in a preference?
I have nothing against changes in the OP combat system. 12 rounds instead of 24, no second phase, all right. When rotating OP material, however, everyone should be aware of what an OP is producing. And each guild owns the outpost should also have the opportunity to defend the outpost. Dispossession by system spounts players.
As I said, shorter OP fights, no Phase 2, good idea. But the opposite side should not forget that the same applies to the Kamis when they attack.

The idea I don't think is good is NPC tribes as OP holders. The game is made for human beings and not for NPCs.

What you should definitely work on:

I was mocked (in the roleplay section) for not fighting for the Blackburn outpost, which was attacked at 3am European time. It is pointless to defend an outpost with 3 people when the q50 NPCs fall over in a breeze.
The attackers "tactics”, as seen at the Windway outpost, practically carry out a suicide attack to kill the NPCs before being killed yourself is in terms of play, a joke. (This applies, of course, to both sides)
Respawn and the whole thing again. We wiped the Marauders there round by round and still lost enough rounds to make a phase 2 necessary.
That's not OK. How can it be that an attacker is wiped and still wins the round?