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#1 Multilingual 

Lordoy!

I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback on a possible new constitution for the Tryker Government. I have started it in this forum so Stateless Trykers can participate. I will also need some help translating it, so the final document is multi-language and a copy available in the Embassies forum.

Here is the google doc version of what I am working on (works in web browser, not in-game :( )

I will post the current and previously proposed constitution below.

Edited 6 times | Last edited by Placio (8 years ago) | Reason: Link has been disabled and removed for the time being.

#2 [en] 

Current Constitution written by the Kardali.

Shaley Nara
Book 1 : Of the Sovereignty of New Trykoth

Article 1
The rebuilt Tryker nation is named "New Trykoth".

Article 2
New Trykoth is, and will ever be, a federal nation.

Article 3
The territory around New Trykoth will always be called "Aeden Aqueous"

Article 4
Emblem of the State will be a circle decorated of 10 branches. Nine for the people, the tenth for the Governor

Article 5
National Anthem is "Light of Glory"

Article 6
The mottos of citizens will be "Praise to the people" and "Freedom, equality, sharing'"

Article 7
All Tryker are born free and equals.


Book 2 : Powers

Chapter 1 : The executive power

Section 1 : Governor of the federation

Article 8
The governor must assure a federal government for the people of New Trykoth.

Article 9
9.1. The Governor is always the chief executive of New Trykoth government.
9.2. The governor can, with a valid reason, veto the decisions of Thenkardali, and of Federal Assemblies.

Article 10
10.1. The Governor must be Tryker born.
10.2. The Governor must be a citizen of New Trykoth since second Great Swarm
10.3.Trykers campaigning for the office of Governor must be active members of the Thenkardali or the Federal Assemblies.

Article 11
11.1. All born Tryker can vote for future Governor.

11.2. All homins who have been Tryker citizens for at least 2 Jena Year can vote for future Governor.

Article 12
The Governor fulfills his duty for life or until he steps down from his office, either by his own will or if the Thenkardali remove him by vote.

Article 13
Once elected, the Governor must swear an oath before taking office.
13.1 This Governor's oath is as follows:
"I swear to protect, as my trust, the Tryker people, to be faithful to the values "Tryka, Meer, Sella", both to the nation, and the law, and to maintain the Constitution as passed and amended in National assembly and accepted by Thenkardali."

Article 14
If the Governor finds it impossible to exercise his functions an elected member of the Thenkardali will undertake his duties for one Jena Year. After a year, if the Governor has not been able to take back his duties, a new election will take place .

Chapter 2 : Legislative power

Section I Thenkardali

Article 18
18.1. The Thenkardali is composed of three Kard'al.
18.2 Each Kard'al is associated with one of the towns : Crystabell, Windermeer and Avendale.
18.3. Each kard'al assists the Governor and manages the decisions of the Assembly of his town.

Article 19
19.1. Members of the Thenkardali are named by the Governor of New Trykoth.
19.2. When a new Governor is elected, he will name a Kard'al(i) for each of the three cities.

Article 20
The Thenkardali can be dissolved by governor at any time.

Section II : The Federal Assembly

Article 21
The Federal Assembly represents the people of New Trykoth.
21.1 Federal Assembly proposes and votes on laws that will apply to all of New Trykoth
21.2 The laws are then validated by Thenkardali
21.3 Any law modifying the Constitution must have a unanimous vote of the Thenkardali and be approved by the Governor.

Article 22
The Federal Assembly is composed of citizens representing each (regional) Citizen Assembly.
22.1 These representatives are a maximum of three from each Assembly in adddition to the Kard'al(i).
22.2 The Kard'al of each city have a reserved place.
22.3 One of the Kard'ali will preside over the Federal Assembly.

Section III : Regional Assembly

Article 23
A Regional Assembly represents the people of each city of New Trykoth and is composed of Taliari.
23.1 Taliari propose and vote on the laws applying to their city.
23.2 Laws voted by Taliari are submited to the Kard'al of the city for their enforcement.

Article 24
24.1. Candidates for the position of Taliar must be part of a citizen guild and have been a citizen of New Trykoth for at least 6 Jena years.
24.2. Candidates the the position of Taliar must receive support from members of the existing Federal Assembly.
24.4. Each guild can only have a single Taliar. A substitute Taliar, from the same guild, can replace him at assemblies once named.

Article 25
The Kard'al can dissolve a part of or the entire Citizen Assembly if he has good reasons

SECTION IV : VOTE

Article 26
A vote must be secret and equal.
26.1 Each voter has the same number of votes.
26.2 Votes are collected in an urn.

Last edited by Placio (8 years ago)

#3 [en] 

Constitution proposed by Luth.

Luth
(ooc : You must to know that animation imposes some points we can't change to respect the lore... i know the main problem will be the fact the Governor must be a Tryker of sap, it's to maintain the balance there is a member of each people like heads of a continent, i am sorry :( Second point : excuse my very poor english... I know that some articles will be appeared very strange... say it to me !).

"BOOK 1: THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE NEW TRYKOTH

Article 1 
The State Tryker rebuilt is called the Federation of New Trykoth or New Trykoth. 

Article 2
2.1 New Trykoth is a federal, democratic and secular State.
2.2 The Federation of New Trykoth is based on Tryker Citizens and citizen cryai
2.3 New Trykoth recognizes the freedom of conscience. No one shall be prosecuted for his beliefs if they do not go against the constitutional principles set out herein.
2.4 The people of New Trykoth, also called Tryker Nation is composed of the Tryker Citizens. 

Article 3 
The territory in which lies the New Trykoth is called "Aeden Aqueous." 

Article 4 
The emblem of the State will be a circle decorated with ten branches. 

Article 5 
The national anthem is "The Light of Glory." 

Article 6
Currencies loved by citizens are "Liberty, Equality, Sharing" ("Tryka, meer, sella" in tyll) and "Glory to the people." 

Article 7
7.1 All Tryker Citizens born and remain free and equal in rights and duties.
7.2 All Tryker Citizens have the right to vote and the eligibility’s right. 

BOOK 2: POWERS CHAPTER I: THE EXECUTIVE SECTION I: THE GOVERNOR OF THE FEDERATION 

Article 8 
The Governor is the guarantor of the Constitution and the unity of the people of New Trykoth. 

Article 9 
9.1. The Governor is the head of the State of the Federation of New Trykoth. 
9.2. The Governor may give a veto to a legislative decision of the Regional Assemblies or the Federal Assembly of Fairhaven if it violates the Constitution. He must notify and explain its decision in writing to the Taliari and Kard'ali of the New Trykoth. 

Article 10 
The Governor must be a Sap’s Tryker and a Tryker Citizen of New Trykoth. 

Article 11
Any Tryker Citizen can vote for the future Governor. 

Article 12
12.1. The Governor is elected by all the citizens Tryker to 5 years of Jena.
12.2. The Governor may be removed following a motion of censure of the Federal Assembly of Fairhaven if the motion gets two-thirds vote of the members of the Assembly. 

Article 13 
13.1. Governor once elected, must take an oath before taking office 
13.2. The oath must pay the Governor as follows: "I swear to protect the Tryker people entrusted to me, to be true to the values " Tryka, Meer, Sella, " , to the Tryker nation, to the law and to maintain the Constitution decreed by the Federal Assembly." 

Article 14
14.1. If the Governor is unable to perform his duties as Governor, an elected member of Thenkard'ali assume its mission during a period not to exceed one year in Jena. Period after which a new election will be held if the Governor has always been able to resume his duties.
14.2. The reasons that the Governor is unable to govern are: death, coma, death, resignation and censorship by the Federal Assembly.

Article 15
15.1. The Governor is the head of the Federal Armed Forces.
15.2. The Governor is the diplomatic representative of the Federation of New Trykoth. He has authority to sign treaties after diplomatic vote of the Federal Assembly of Fairhaven.
15.3. The Governor shall sanction and promulgate federal laws passed by the Federal Assembly of Fairhaven.
15.4. The Governor is the head of the town of Fairhaven.

Article 16
The Governor may propose legislation to the Federal Assembly of Fairhaven.

Article 17
The Governor may propose a referendum to the Tryker people to vote a law.

SECTION II: THENKARD'ALI

Article 18
18.1. The Thenkard'ali has three Kard'ali. Kard'al must be a citizen Tryker.
18.2. Each Kard'al is associated with one of these cities: Crystabell, and Windermeer Avendale.
18.3. Each Kard'al advises the Governor and oversees the decisions of the Regional Assembly of his city.
18.4. Each Kard'al can propose legislation to the regional Regional Assembly.
18.5. Each Kard'al promulgate decisions of the Regional Assembly of his city.

Article 19
19.1. Each Kard'al is proposed by the governor to the Regional Assembly of the city which he will be Kard'al. It will be officially Kard'al if the Regional Assembly accepted by a vote of a simple majority. If the Regional Assembly rejects the choice of the Governor, the Governor may request a vote by the people of the city of the Regional Assembly or propose a new name to the Regional Assembly.
19.2. Kard'al is appointed for five years of Jena.
19.3. A Kard'al can be reversed by a motivated motion of censure voted by 2/3 of Taliari Regional Assembly chaired by the Kard'al.
19.4. If Kard'al is censored by the Regional Assembly, the Governor may propose a new Kard'al or ask the people of the city of the Regional Assembly to validate or not the choice of the Regional Assembly. 

Article 20
20.1 A Kard'al may be removed by the Governor at any time.
20.2 The Governor must justify the revocation of the Kard'al to the Regional Assembly associated with him. 

CHAPTER II: THE LEGISLATURE SECTION I: FEDERAL ASSEMBLY 

Article 21 
The Federal Assembly represents the people of the "New Trykoth" and headquartered in Fairhaven.
 21.1 The Federal Assembly proposes and votes at the simple majority the laws that apply to all New Trykoth.
 21.2 The voted laws are promulgated by the Governor. 
21.3 Any act to amend the Constitution must be passed by a majority of two-thirds of the Federal Assembly and approved by the Governor.
21.4 The Federal Assembly has a term of five years of Jena. 

Article 22 
The Federal Assembly is composed of deputies under the Federal Presidency of the Governor. 
22.1. Federal Members of Parliament are Tryker Citizens elected by the Regional Assemblies.
22.2. Federal Deputies are at the number of three for each Regional Assembly. 
22.3 The Federal Deputies have the federal legislative power, they have the right to vote and the right to propose laws to the Federal Assembly. 
22.4 The Federal Assembly is chaired by the Governor, or in his absence, by a member of the Federal Assembly drawn.

SECTION II: REGIONAL ASSEMBLY

Article 23
A Regional Assembly represents the people of a city of New Trykoth. It has a term of 5 years of Jena.
23.1 Taliari are automatically members of the Regional Assembly.
23.2 The Regional Assemblies are free of their organization and functioning as it respects the Constitution guaranteed by the Governor. If a Regional Assembly wants a particular organization or a particular functioning, it must vote these provisions as laws that are subject to sections 23.2 and 23.3 with a nuance, Kard'al must consult the Governor and it can put its veto if these organic laws do not respect the Constitution.
23.3 The Article 23.2 should be used by a Regional Assembly which has only one or two Taliari to run the democratic life of the Regional Assembly and to avoid situations of autocratic power or blockage. The Governor can force a Regional Assembly in this situation to open its ranks so that there are at least 3 voting members in the Regional Assembly.
23.4 The members of the Regional Assembly and propose and vote at the simple majoritytheir city.
23.5. Laws voted by members of the Regional Assembly are promulgated by the Kard'al their city (see Chapter I, Section II, Article 18.5).
23.6. There are three Regional Assemblies. Those of Windermeer, Crystabell and Avendale. Fairhaven is directly governed by the Governor who was elected by the Tryker people.
23.7 Each Regional Assembly appoints a First Taliar that support the implementation of the agenda, the good developping of the debate "Tryka, Meer al Sella" and the drafting of the minutes. This First Taliar is appointed by a single vote and remains Prime Taliar as long as he wishes or a request for change resulting in a new vote is held. The First Taliar must be a Taliar Regional Assembly which he is responsible.

Article 24
24.1. The candidates for being Taliar must be part of a Citizen crya and must be a citizen of the "New Trykoth."
24.2. The candidates for being Taliar must be accepted by their crya.
24.3. A Citizen crya can only have one Taliar. His deputy, the same crya can replace Meetings.
24.4 Taliari and their deputies must take an oath to the Federation: "I swear to serve the people Tryker, to be true to the values" Tryka, Meer, Sella, "Tryker the nation, the law and the Constitution decreed by the Federal Assembly. "
24.5 In the event that a Regional Assembly is organized by means other than Taliari through sections 23.2 and 23.3, each member of the Regional Assembly should be Tryker Citizen and take the same oath as Taliari as set out in Section 24.4.

SECTION IV: VOTE 

Article 25 
Vote shall be secret and equal. 
25.1 Each voter has the same number of votes. 
25.2 The votes were collected in an urn. 
25.3 The simple majority is needed for a vote, unless otherwise specified in the Constitution. 
25.4 At the Federal Assembly, the vote is manifested with seeds (seed lakes means yes, a seed of the jungle means no a seed of premiums means abstention) distributed and collected by the Blind (title granted Tryker blind one who has taken the same oath as Taliari).
25.5 In the Regional Assemblies, it is recommended to vote according to the procedure of Article 25.4 but if the Regional Assembly may elect in its internal organization to another voting procedure.
25.6 For the referendum, the use of seeds with the same meaning as in section 25.4 shall be applied. The seeds will be distributed and collected by the Blind.
25.7 For the election of the Governor, ballots with the behalf of the candidates will be distributed. Citizens will vote by giving the ballot with the name of the candidate for whom they vote. The recount will be done in a transparent and public session by federal officials who have taken the same oath as Taliari.

CHAPTER 3: THE JUDICIARY
Article 26
Justice of the Federation of New Trykoth is that of Taliari and Thenkard'ali.
26.1. Citizens Trykers or cryai citizens can complain to Taliari at a Regional Assembly. They must submit their complaint in the Regional Assembly which they depend.
26.2 A non-citizen may file a complaint with the Justice of the Federation of New Trykoth. For this, there must be a citizen Tryker as guarantor. He complained to the Regional Assembly on which the guarantor dépends.
26.3 Taliari expose the complaint to the Kard'al to know if the reason for the complaint falls within Taliari justice or justice of Thenkard'ali.
26.4 If the Kard'al believes that this is a situation for the taliar justice, the Taliari of the concerned Regional Assembly constitute a taliar court. If Kard'al believes that this is a situation for the justice of Thenkard'ali, the Kard'ali constitute a court. Taliar justice customarily prevails for all crimes but Thenkard'ali can be entered for the most serious cases or more sensitive or if the complaints involve problems between the cities of Lakes or if problems are related to any Federation crimes.
26.5 In all cases, after a judgment, there may be appeal. In case of appeal from the judgment of Taliari is the Kard'al of the city of Taliari concerned decides. In case of appeal from the judgment of Thenkard'ali, the Governor decides.
26.6 A taliar court must consist of at least three judges. In cases where a Regional Assembly has only one or two Taliari, the Regional Assembly will draw or will elect missing judges. The draw or the election is the choice of the Regional Assembly in its organization.

Article 27
Justice of the Federation has an armed wing, the Marshalls.
27.1. Each city appoints 1-3 Marshalls to bring to justice the homins sought or leakage at the request of Kard'al or the Regional Assembly.
27.2. The Thenkard'ali or the Governor may enter the number of Marshalls they wish to bring to justice a homin sought federal or leak.

CHAPTER 4: NON-CITIZENS TALAI.SECTION I: THE LAKE RESIDENTS

Article 28
28.1 Are considered like Lakes Residents members of non-Citizen cryai which have their guild hall on the territory of New Trykoth or people who have an apartment on the territory of New Trykoth.
28.2 Lakes Residents are free from birth. Nothing can break this freedom. Apart from political rights (voting, access to electoral mandates and federal taxes), they are considered equal and have the same rights, duties and protections as citizens Trykers.
28.3 Non-Citizen cryai with their guild hall on the territory of New Trykoth are called Lakes Resident Cryai.

Article 29
Lakes Resident Cryai may have officials with the Federation, Talalochi.
29.1 A Lakes Resident Crya can apply to have a Talalochi in a Regional Assembly. That Regional Assembly will validate by a vote at the simple majority whether they agree or not its access to this responsibility.
29.2 A Lakes Resident Crya can be represented in only one Regional Assembly by his Talalochi.
29.3 A Talalochi must be accepted by his crya.
29.4 Lakes Resident Cryai can only have one Talalochi. His deputy, from the same crya can replace him once appointed at the Regional Assembly.
29.5 The Talalochi have the right to vote in their Regional Assembly only on the following cases: local planning, local economy and organization of festivities.

SECTION II: homins.
Article 30
Federation of New Trykoth respects the Charter of Rights Homin of 2518.

Article 31
Slavery of homins and primitives (Cuzans, Momos, and Gibbais Frahars) is prohibited.

Article 32
Federation of New Trykoth respects the Four Nations Treaty signed by Still Wyler in 2532."

Luth macFay.

Last edited by Placio (8 years ago)

#4 Multilingual 

Traduction du post de Placio :

Lordoy!

Je souhaite avoir un retour sur une éventuelle nouvelle constitution pour le gouvernement Tryker.
J'ai écris sur ce panneau public, de façon à ce que tous les Trykers puissent y participer (qu'ils aient passé leur rite ou non).
J'ai aussi besoin d'aide pour les traductions, de façon à ce que le document final soit en plusieurs langues, et copié sur les panneaux d'affichages des Ambassades.

Voici le lien vers le document sur lequel je travaille (utiliser un navigateur, et non dans le jeu) (ce doc est en anglais)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SpWMf64oNBdyBhuJ5Y6-lGJJfinAv -m0M4P_Pb_Gi1I/edit?usp=sharing

Je posterais la version courante et les précédentes versions ci dessous.

Placio

Last edited by Craftjenn (8 years ago)

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Mon profil sur le wiki Francais

https://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Utilisatrice:Craftjenn


Craftjenn, Ranger

#5 [en] 

Okay, I haven't received much feedback, so I will post what I have so far.

I'm still thinking about any additional homins rights to guarantee in Article 3.

I'm still wondering if the Head of Government and Head of State names can be something different.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Placio (8 years ago) | Reason: content has been removed for the time being

#6 [fr] 

Coucou Placio,
Tres heureux de voir quelqu'un s'interesser à ce lourd projet!
J'avais assisté Luth dans ces recherches et sa proposition de nouvelle constitution, je suis donc plutot favorable a ce qui est inscrit...

---

Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#7 Multilingual 

Jazzy said:

Hi Placio

I'm very happy to see you are interrested with this complicated project !
I helped Luth for researchs, and his proposal, i'm ok with what you wrote.

Jazzy
Coucou Placio,
Tres heureux de voir quelqu'un s'interesser à ce lourd projet!
J'avais assisté Luth dans ces recherches et sa proposition de nouvelle constitution, je suis donc plutot favorable a ce qui est inscrit...

---



Mon profil sur le wiki Francais

https://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Utilisatrice:Craftjenn


Craftjenn, Ranger

#8 [en] 

Thanks Craftjenn, Google translated most of that correctly, except i didn't know which document was referred to in last phrase :)

#9 [en] 

Any opinions on article 2- values? These might be easily passed as a law and not needed in the constitution.

Since in my document the Governor and Vice-Governor have completely different offices, how does anyone feel about changing the title of vice-governor to President. Prime Minister would also match the function, but since the position is elected by general election instead of assembly it is not as good a fit as President. (maybe there is a better title in the Tryker language?)

#10 [en] 

I don't like the words "President" and "Prime Minister", I feel they don't match with the Tryker way of leaving. And it is much too close to RL titles, with very different meanings in various countries, for me to feel comfortable with it. (Ok, maybe because there's no Governor where I leave.)
Also, Trykers have had famous Governors. Still Wyler has been one of them. Changing it would remove the link between the current President and his/her predecessors. Trykers have no reason to be ashamed of their previous leaders.

I'm not sure what a Vice-Governor should do or should be. I haven't read the whole project yet, because reading such a thing is always difficult, and it's even more difficult in a foreign language. Can you point where it is detailed please?

As for using the Tryker language... I haven't found anything yet. Taal means big. Kard'al means warder. But what is a Governor or a Vice-Governor supposed to be?

---

Peu importe que la chope soit à moitié vide ou à moitié pleine, tant qu'on a le tonneau.

#11 [en] 

* to clarify, I was suggesting the vice-governor be called president or something similar, The Governor can remain the same.

There is a vice-governor now, even though it is not mentioned in the Kardali constitution, so I assume he is just an agent/emmisary of the governor?

In the past the Vice-Governor supervised the Kardali, oversaw the talari assemblies, and filled the role of governor when needed.

The main purpose of writing a new constitution is to take the power back from the Kardali and to reduce the power of the Governor. The Kardali were never supposed to be so important and I think a cabinet can do their job. The fact that the event team will probably only allow the governor to be elected for life, means that the governor should not have so much power. So this is why I made the governor Head of State, and the other position Head of Government- so inside the federation a frequently elected official has the most power. Because they have different roles but equal power (the vice-governor might be more powerful actually) it seems strange to call the one "vice-"

I was thinking too, maybe just have one Kard'al. The Vice-Governor position would become the Kard'al (of Fairhaven).

Currently Article 7 has the vice-governor description

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Placio (8 years ago)

#12 [fr] 

Le texte propose:
1 kardhal par ville (Windermeer, Avendale, Cristabell)
1 vice- gouverneur pour la Capitale (pour les problemes d'ordre plus général)
1 gouverneur: chef supreme en quelque sorte...

Pour les valeurs, cela fait office d'introduction et permet de traduire en justice d'eventuels manquement ou insultes aux valeurs des lacs. C'est ainsi qu'on l'entendait avec Luth durant ce travail.

---

Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#13 [en] 

Ok, so Jazzy supports the text of Luth?

#14 [fr] 

Jazzy
Le texte propose:
1 kardhal par ville (Windermeer, Avendale, Cristabell)
1 vice- gouverneur pour la Capitale (pour les problemes d'ordre plus général)
1 gouverneur: chef supreme en quelque sorte...

Pour les valeurs, cela fait office d'introduction et permet de traduire en justice d'eventuels manquement ou insultes aux valeurs des lacs. C'est ainsi qu'on l'entendait avec Luth durant ce travail.

Translation
The proposal in the text is:
1 kardhal per city (Windermeer, Avendale, Cristabell)
1 vice-governor for the Capital (for more general problems)
1 governor: supreme leader if one can say...

Regarding the values, it's kind of introduction and allows to suit potential breaches or insults to the lakes values. That's how Luth and me understood it in this work.

---

Peu importe que la chope soit à moitié vide ou à moitié pleine, tant qu'on a le tonneau.

#15 [en] 

Is the proposed text supposed to be the whole of the new Constitution or just a rewriting of the first part? There does need to be some statement of what the Taliari are and how they are selected. Whether this belongs in the Constitution or in the Laws might be a matter of debate. I recall that when I was commenting on Luth's original proposal, there was a fundamental disagreement between us as to what the scope of a Constitution should be.

I should note that one of the game playing requirements of the past has been that the leaders of the Nation are played by the Event Team, and the same for leaders of the Cities, so it may be difficult or impossible to get rid of the Governor and the Kard'ali. (Not that I would want to get rid of the office held by so many courageous and noble Trykers.)

Good luck with this.

-- Bittty.

P.S. - Can we get rid of the "Federal Anthem" unless there is actually words and music for it?

---


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>
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