Rubbarn tool not working as described - TECHNICAL SUPPORT / WEB APPs BUGS

#1 Added by Zyeir 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

Seems like the boosts given by the rubbarn tool is either not working as intended or the description is incorrect. When making maga amps the chance to boost is lower than 5%.

#2 Added by Amnesia(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Ummm...... no.

You have 5% chance that the outcome of a single craft will become boosted.
It does not mean at all that if you make a 100 than 5 will be boosted.
I sometime grind with rubbarn out of laziness to go and get a basic tool, and
sometime i get upto 5-6 in a row boosted.

#3 Added by Zyeir 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I understand how statistics work, and am not talking about making grind amps. Specifically i'm referring to making maga amps. Yes a 5% chance is a hard thing to measure but lets say you make 30 amps, the chance of not getting a boost is 21%.

#4 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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What's your point, Zyeir? That's still one time in five that you get no boost when make 30 amps in a row, and it's still random. Which means that you can make 100 amps in a row and get no boosts and that is not evidence of malfunction.

If you make 10,000 amps and you only get 300 boosted, then you might have some evidence, but at any number below that, you haven't got a big enough sample to know whether or not the boost frequency is working as advertised.

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#5 Added by Zyeir 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I was just looking for some assurance/clarification from a dev. I've heard similar thoughts on the matter from other players and seems i'm not alone in this. There are a few game mechanics that are a bit buggy and either don't display the proper information, or don't work as described. So i thought maybe this was one more thing. Regardless, i thought this was the place to submit possible bugs and such and am surprised you guys seem intent on discrediting my report.

#6 Added by Gorran 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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It's more because if you've been around long enough, you have already read this thread or a variation of it. That's part of the problem with the old forums being buried, there is no easy way for new players to research such questions before asking them.

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Eldest, Order of the White Lotus

#7 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Plus, you made a claim that you have no evidence or support to back up. Instead, you made that claim and then ask if it is true.

The problem is that it's hard for individual players to verify this. It would be much easier if you weren't concerned specifically about Maga amps, since Rubbarn isn't that hard to obtain and lasts for many crafts.

The Armillo tools have a set pattern to them. I've heard it takes about 300 crafts to learn the pattern, but even without specifically trying to document it, you can observe it if you use the tool frequently. Is it possible that Rubbarn is the same way, or is Rubbarn purely based on chance each time?

The answer quite likely might even be in the Ryzom source, to which we all have access.

#8 Added by Zyeir 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Well, if this has already been covered, then i'm sorry for bringing it up again. However I have searched the old forums and found nothing on the subject. There where some discussions on the effect of rubbarn and armillo on degrades, but nothing on what i am talking about. If you could point me to the right thread i would be happy to look it over.

At the same time, i would like to point out the discussion would be over if a dev would simply chime in and let me know how wrong i am.

#9 Added by Hekla 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Look up the gambler's fallacy. Or the law of large numbers.

You always have 95% chance of not getting a boosted pair of Maga Amps on any one craft, no matter what you do or how many failures you've had over time.

I am flabbergasted by Erizon's statement about a set pattern in Armilo tools. If that can't be documented, I'll regard it as a simple case of homin superstition and go back to digging with a four-leaved Stinga bud in my left hand.

#10 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I haven't bothered to sit down to document any tool that I use, because I haven't tried to create any boosted sets of anything. But when you're crafting items, say HP or Focus jewels, and you see a Sap boost, followed two crafts later by another Sap boost, followed some crafts later by a Stamina boost, you sort of remember the boosts close to each other. When that pattern repeats, and then repeats again, you learn to predict its next appearance. This was the pattern that I observed for one Armillo jewel crafting tool. It's probably easiest to observe by crafting jewels, for various reasons.

I don't remember where I read about Armillo patterns. I suppose the repeating sequences that I saw above still -could- be quite random, but I wouldn't want to try to calculate the odds on that one. I'd buy lottery tickets instead and retire in style.

Each (Armillo) tool has its own distinct pattern.

That is my observation, and it supports a previous statement made at some point in the past. Try it out for yourself. You guys have 4 out of the 5 Armillo Ops, so there should be plenty floating around.

#11 Added by Hekla 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Zyeir

Regardless, i thought this was the place to submit possible bugs and such and am surprised you guys seem intent on discrediting my report.

Well, it's surprising. It's just that, as you pointed out, statistics can be deceiving and it takes quite a bit of a sample to start drawing conclusions. Randomness can be hard to fathom, and retro-engineering it from a feeling in-game is haphazard.

Erizon

Each (Armillo) tool has its own distinct pattern.

Lost me there. The only explanation for this would be if the random number generator were cycling using a limited algorithm; depending on where the initial seed began, the algorithm would cycle from then on in a set pattern within a limited amount of numbers to iterate on, which would be recognizable over time... In that case, I suppose it could be considered a bug of sorts.

#12 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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As far as armilo is concerned, I've been crafting with armilo for some time (leveled my jewels to max from q150 with it) and I haven't seen the patterns that Erizon mentions, either across tools or within a single tool. What I have seen is something else entirely.

First, the 10% chance of boosting seems to be bang-on, on the average (and I have done enough crafts with armilo to actually have decent statistics).

Jewels get a random boost to any of the four stats, so you have a 2.5% chance of increasing the stat you're "interested in." The same applies to Light Armor.

However, for Heavy Armor, the armilo tools seem to only give you HP or STAM, so you have a higher chance of getting stuff you "like". Yay us.

-- Bittty

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#13 Added by Sywindt(Yubo) 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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A similar allegation was investigated by us some time ago by checking the item definitions and using large numbers of controlled crafts (~1000 per tooltype), and we did not see any results that would indicate that the percentages are off. In other words, the percentage of resulting boosts were about what was expected.

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Sywindt | Game Master | EN, NL, de, fr

#14 Added by Zyeir 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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Thank you Sywindt for the response.

#15 Added by Kilgoretrout 1 decade ago Report | Quote [en]

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I craft with Armilo when crafting jewels for many lvls and like Bittty I have never discerned any pattern for boosts.

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