OP battles should be made GvG only - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

#16 Added by Erizon(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

Iala

Can be prevented by setting a long limit to who can join in the fight as attacker. Say 3 weeks for the attacker and only the attacker.
That way attacker can't swell their ranks with temporary members from other guilds, leaving the defenders with no way to defend themselves as they can bring in such mercenaries.

Human nature is such that if there is a way to abuse something, there will be those who put forth as much effort as it takes to abuse that thing, to gain an advantage. If you have to wait two weeks before you can participate in a battle, people will swap guilds two weeks in advance. Or three weeks. Or four. Or whatever it takes.

As it is now, friendships, cooperation, deal-making, and even politics play a role in who fights or doesn't fight.

That's the basic idea of a sandbox: the game doesn't artificially restrict you from doing what you want to do, only other players can do that. If the game is going to continue to be a sandbox, artificial limitations need to be extremely few and only present to prevent abuse. However, if the game is going to move away from the sandbox model, then restrictions like this would make sense.

With so many other games telling you what to do and how to play, it's nice to have a few that let you make your own decisions.

#17 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago [en]

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Erizon

Human nature is such that if there is a way to abuse something, there will be those who put forth as much effort as it takes to abuse that thing, to gain an advantage. If you have to wait two weeks before you can participate in a battle, people will swap guilds two weeks in advance. Or three weeks. Or four. Or whatever it takes.

This is exactly my point. There is no way to avoid such exploit. If some guild is intend to capture some certain OP, they will do anything to achieve this goal. While defenders would have very limited amount of time to do the same, compared to the attacking guild. Not mention the need of constant swapping guilds to help your friends is plain stupid.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tumbleweed (1 decade ago)

#18 Added by Stitch(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Iala

Stitch
There is already a limit of 6 now. I guess this could be reduced to 2 or 3.

yes, and then you hand them to alt guilds and grab more.
Should be accompanied with outpost maintenance for which no outside help can be included, so if you have an alt guild it can't possibly hold outposts for you as it won't have the manpower to maintain them.

My way would eliminate that since most alt guilds consist of 1 or 2 members tops with less then master level skills. So if the issue of guild hopping is taken care of It would be pretty hard for them to take an OP even if its just against the default guards.

#19 Added by Gilgameesh 1 decade ago [en]

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Personally i dislike this idea. This will just destroy the politic in game. Just my opinion.

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Gilgameesh
Legion of Atys

#20 Added by Stitch(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Tumbleweed

So, if some guild is planning an attack, they can invite their friends or even hire someone to join them a week or two before the attack itself. And thus gain some significant advantage over defending guild. With no way for defenders to counteract this.

This idea being implemented would left smaller guilds at mercy of the larger ones. If your guild has less than 15-20 members with mastered combat skills, you have no choice but either disband and join larger guild or quit PvP at all. Not mention begging for cats from large guilds and killing faction politics and interaction. Factions would lose any meaning and become completely RP things. Every guild would be for itself, if not consider invitation exploit. And what about newcomers that would like to create their own guild? They would be enforced to join exsisting guilds instead to get access to the cats.

IMO, GvG option shoud be implemented only in form of official agreement between two guilds that willing to go for GvG.

Yes it would leave smaller guilds at the mercy of larger guilds, which is the way it should be. If a guild can't hold an OP by itself, then it doesn't deserve it. Your notion that a small guild has to quit because of that though is just silly. TI grew from 2 members with no OPs and no support from any other guilds to where it is now and any other small guild can do the same if they put some effort into it. If they don't want to put in that effort why should they be rewarded with OP's? Factions are already meaningless in OP wars as it is since anyone can fight for any side they want to. Just because most battles are fought along faction lines doesn't mean they have to be or even should be. As for new guilds see above about TI starting from nothing.

The only real issue would be the guild hopping. That would need to be taken care of first. Although if a whole bunch of people all of a sudden leave their current guild and join a different one, it's a pretty safe bet that something is about to go down.

#21 Added by Gilgameesh 1 decade ago [en]

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Uhm, Stitch, personally i think different. Your reasoning about small and big guilds is questionable: why smal guilds should be at mercy of big guilds? Is this a rule?
Yes, it can be forced by game mechanics but, in my opinion, this is when the politics become a major part.
Actually, alliances are not forced by game mechanics but are "pure" player friendships and agreements. If you want a small guild not having an OP, just do your actions to affirm this ingame. Go and declare the OP. If the small guild have friends and can defend their OP is not a fault, but "good politic".
Why you want to destroy this behaviour?
Personally I hate big guilds, because they are anarchy and dictatorship, where players are into not for friendship but for convenience.
Much better small guilds where people really agree to play togheter because of the people and not for convenience. Anyway we can have both now, and the "strength" is decided by the players, not by a forced game mechanic.
Just my opinion.

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Gilgameesh
Legion of Atys

#22 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago [en]

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Stitch

Yes it would leave smaller guilds at the mercy of larger guilds, which is the way it should be.

Oh really? And why that should be that way? Size of the guild shouldn't be a criterion allowing some group of people to dictate their will upon others.

If a guild can't hold an OP by itself, then it doesn't deserve it.

That's where relations, diplomacy and interaction with other players comes in play. Spamming invites to every person in sight shouldn't be the only way for a guild to get access to high level content. It's MMO after all and interaction with other player groups to achieve the goals and take challenges supposed to have importance. And you want to turn it into some poor copy of Guild Wars.

Factions are already meaningless in OP wars as it is since anyone can fight for any side they want to.

Generally they aren't meaningless with exception of some specific cases. It's some oversized guilds that neglecting faction meaning.

Although if a whole bunch of people all of a sudden leave their current guild and join a different one, it's a pretty safe bet that something is about to go down.

So what? In most cases potential defenders would have no clue if they are going to be attacked or no. And when the button is pressed, it's already too late, because recruiting new members got banned by active war. And if there is no such restriction, defending guild would have only 24 hours before the battle to get more people in, while attackers could have preparations going for weeks.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tumbleweed (1 decade ago)

#23 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago [en]

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Stitch

Your notion that a small guild has to quit because of that though is just silly.

Let's say, i'm a member of some small guild consist of four or five active members. I don't care much about outposts, but i like PvP and battles. Now, what would i have to do if GvG become real, forced by game mechanics? I would have to quit the guild that i like to be in, leave people that i like to hang around with, and join some large guild in order to have the kind of fun that i enjoy. And the rest folks in my old guild would have to do the same. Now, THAT'S just silly.

Faile

It's really a solution to combat inactive/low member guilds from monopolizing a resource

There is no monopolizing. Because people tend to share their OP goods with others. At least within faction. Personally, i always got what i asked for with no problems at all.

Last edited by Tumbleweed (1 decade ago)

#24 Added by Stitch(arispotle) 1 decade ago [en]

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Tumbleweed

Let's say, i'm a member of some small guild consist of four or five active members.

Ok let's.

I don't care much about outposts,

Then why post about it?

but i like PvP and battles. Now, what would i have to do if GvG become real, forced by game mechanics? I would have to quit the guild that i like to be in, leave people that i like to hang around with, and join some large guild in order to have the kind of fun that i enjoy.

Or instead of quitting you could stay in your guild and press the attack on any OP you want. Just because it is GvG doesn't mean you can't attack, and since you like PvP as you say that should be enough. Or you could tag up and go find others that are tagged up and fight them, and since you like PvP as you say that should be enough. Or you could go to PR and fight the first unlucky person you find down there, and since you like PvP as you say that should be enough. Or you could go to the Matis arena and have some battles there, and since you like PvP as you say that should be enough. Or you could just challenge someone to a duel ... see where I'm going with this? You claim to like PvP but really are hung up on one game mechanic concerning one type of PvP and can't see there are many other possibilities than just quitting your guild to join a big one or stop pvp altogether, that's why I call it silly.

#25 Added by Tumbleweed 1 decade ago [en]

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The kinds of PvP you listed are nothing but jokes, that don't even worth the mention. For example, you can tag up and spend literally hours looking for opponents only to find out that there is very little of them, it's always same few persons and most likely there is nobody at all. Mass PvP in form of OP battles is the only decent option for someone looking for PvP in this game. GvG being implemented, cut off the "mass" part of this statement, degrading battles down to team-level fights and casting away those who would like to participate in real battle instead of team fight.