PvP and Neutral Status - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

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	IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Forums » IDEAS FOR RYZOM » PvP and Neutral Status

#1 Added by Arfur 3 years ago [en]

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PvP is a valued part of Ryzom and I know many players enjoy this aspect of the game. I myself have participated in many outpost battles and have enjoyed them immensely.

It has to be acknowledged however, that there are times when we do not wish to participate in PvP and for this reason we need to be able to opt out of PvP.

Declaring Neutral status has always been an option when approaching an OP battle but this has been open to abuse with neutral players being attacked. This should be an option when entering all PvP zones and it should be properly implemented. It should be impossible to be attacked, or to attack anyone, while neutral.

Last edited by Arfur (3 years ago)

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#2 Added by Sinvaders 3 years ago [en]

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Definitely against.
If you don't want to be involved in PvP, you don't enter PvP area at all.
And no, "neutral" has not always been an option when entering outpost battle.

#3 Added by Arfur 3 years ago [en]

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Sinvaders

Definitely against.
If you don't want to be involved in PvP, you don't enter PvP area at all.

I completely agree. PvP and non-PvP areas should be completely separate. So no dig spots in PvP areas? Would this break Ryzom? Maybe it would. Is there a better idea?

Sinvaders

And no, "neutral" has not always been an option when entering outpost battle.

Whatever the history, Neutral should be an option when entering PvP areas and it should mean what it says - players tagged as neutral should not be able to attack or be attacked.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#4 Added by Eolinius 3 years ago [fr]

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Je ne veux pas entrer dans le débat mais être neutre et non attaquable dans une zone pvp, c'est la même chose que non tagué dans une zone non pvp, c'est a dire une zone normale.

Pour résumé plus simplement, votre proposition est de supprimer les zones pvp.

#5 Added by Arfur 3 years ago [fr]

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Eolinius

Je ne veux pas entrer dans le débat mais être neutre et non attaquable dans une zone pvp, c'est la même chose que non tagué dans une zone non pvp, c'est a dire une zone normale.

Pour résumé plus simplement, votre proposition est de supprimer les zones pvp.

Pas du tout, not at all - in fact the reverse is true. I do not propose the removal of PvP zones, I would like them to be more robust and better defined. At the moment there is a compromise which does not work. I propose PvP-only zones as one possible solution.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#6 Added by Sinvaders 3 years ago

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Arfur

So no dig spots in PvP areas? Would this break Ryzom? Maybe it would. Is there a better idea?

No. The magical spot in prime 200 are supposed to be a challenge, pvp is part of this challenge. If you want sup from digging you just go to others places (prime 250 with kitin patrols).
Nexus is also a PvP area because historialy you could dig sup mats there.
Sup is not meant to be easy to get and you have 2 ways for it:
- prime 250, dangerous area with kitin patrols
- prime 200, pvp aera

I don't see what is wrong with that.

Edit: to answer your last post. I'm all for it, all zone as pvp or at least all the prime.

Last edited by Sinvaders (3 years ago)

#7 Added by Zatalyz 3 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

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Arfur

Declaring Neutral status has always been an option when approaching an OP battle but this has been open to abuse with neutral players being attacked. This should be an option when entering all PvP zones and it should be properly implemented. It should be impossible to be attacked, or to attack anyone, while neutral.

Being non-attackable in PvP area is also a concern. This was active before on OP battle. But if the neutral status was interesting to watch as a spectator, it gave rise to abuses:
- Swapping with non-attackable characters: possibility for an attacker to have much more stock with an alt that will be protected
- Possibility to do actions that will kill the enemies without being attackable (mob pull, drilling in explosive mode)

For the first one, this could be solved by forbidding exchanges with people who are not from the same camp as you.
For the second, I don't see a solution. The mob pull is one of the interesting strategies to exploit in these battles.

The solution that has been found is to deactivate the "neutral" status and to force to choose a side, therefore to be attackable. This does not prevent you from coming as a spectator: you just have to warn the two leagues, get their agreement, stay away from the bombs/LG and hope not to take a lost hit. Some people come to observe the battles and survive them.

#8 Added by Arfur 3 years ago

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Sinvaders

Arfur
So no dig spots in PvP areas? Would this break Ryzom? Maybe it would. Is there a better idea?

No. The magical spot in prime 200 are supposed to be a challenge, pvp is part of this challenge. If you want sup from digging you just go to others places (prime 250 with kitin patrols).
Nexus is also a PvP area because historialy you could dig sup mats there.
Sup is not meant to be easy to get and you have 2 ways for it:
- prime 250, dangerous area with kitin patrols
- prime 200, pvp aera

I don't see what is wrong with that.

Edit: to answer your last post. I'm all for it, all zone as pvp or at least all the prime.

If you can't kill diggers any more, what exactly does that take away from the game for you? Why are you against this? You want to continue to have diggers as easy prey - and you don't see anything wrong with that? It is not proper sport, it is not a challenge, it doesn't prove anything and the only reward for the PvPer is PvP points. For the digger who may have been waiting hours for a node to pop, it is more than annoying.

At the moment there is a lot of tension between those who like PvP and those who don't. The only reason for this is these dual-use areas. Make PvP better by having PvP-only zones.

Last edited by Arfur (3 years ago)

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#9 Added by Arfur 3 years ago [fr]

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Zatalyz

The mob pull is one of the interesting strategies to exploit in these battles.

In fact, this is expressly forbidden in the CoC.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#10 Added by Zatalyz 3 years ago [en]

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Arfur

Zatalyz
The mob pull is one of the interesting strategies to exploit in these battles.

In fact, this is expressly forbidden in the CoC.

You probably talk about rule III.9.c.c.3 ? The good word is "authorized", I think. This is expressly authorized in the CoC.

#11 Added by Arfur 3 years ago [en]

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Zatalyz

Arfur
Zatalyz
The mob pull is one of the interesting strategies to exploit in these battles.

In fact, this is expressly forbidden in the CoC.

You probably talk about rule III.9.c.c.3 ? The good word is "authorized", I think. This is expressly authorized in the CoC.

You are quite right - for OP battles it is permitted. So your concern is that players who have declared neutral could still participate by bringing mobs into the battle zone. Yes I can see the problem with that.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#12 Added by Sinvaders 3 years ago

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Arfur

If you can't kill diggers any more, what exactly does that take away from the game for you? Why are you against this? You want to continue to have diggers as easy prey - and you don't see anything wrong with that? It is not proper sport, it is not a challenge, it doesn't prove anything and the only reward for the PvPer is PvP points. For the digger who may have been waiting hours for a node to pop, it is more than annoying.

At the moment there is a lot of tension between those who like PvP and those who don't. The only reason for this is these dual-use areas. Make PvP better by having PvP-only zones.

As I said the magical spot in prime 200 are supposed to be a challenge. You are not supposed to go there alone and try to dig them. It's a PvP challenge and anecdotic PvE challenge (the vorax you know).
If you remove PvP in those area, you need to remove the magical spot as well.
I don't see the problem at the moment, you want sup mats 250:
- go to prime 200 and accept the pvp challenge at the beginning of season for magical spot
- go to prime 250 and accept the pve challenge (easy one but still), just go there with 2 homins, one for digging and healing and the other one to defend the digger against mobs.

And in PvP zone, you don't win PvP point btw. There is 2 rewards for it:
- winning a lots of sup mats and try to craft powerful gear with it
- make your enemies not being able to collect a lot of sups mats

#13 Added by Hayt 3 years ago [en]

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I think i remember how it started again.
It was few hours before 1st phase of Whirling Stronghold opwar.
The "chose your side window" offered options "Neutral", "Attack" and "Defend". It really was "Neutral", not "Random", i've checked it specially. But this "Neutral" worked exactly as "Random" - for example, I was identified in defender.
Have seen it before (for example after Woodburn Stronghold opwar), it need to be and must be fixed so as not to mislead people.

#14 Added by Jorgensen 3 years ago [en]

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maybe just have a visible circle around the active area of an outpost war so that people who don't want to get tagged on one side or another can avoid it. The active area is quite a bit bigger than the outpost buildings.

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