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#264 [en] 

Fleetwood
Jorgensen
I agree with fleetwood that the game *should* be about cooperating to achieve stuff, but I also agree with nitrouss that it is too small and the current population too unfriendly to insist that people don't use alts
Perhaps the current population is unfriendly only because they can afford to be - they don't need to be cooperative towards other players as they have their alts to play with.

One of my professors used the following analogy: suppose you are going to watch a football match, where you will stand in a crowd on an embankment. If you take an apple-box with you, and stand on it, you will get a better view. But if everyone takes an apple-box, no-one will get a better view, and everyone will have to lug an apple-box around. Everyone would be better off if everyone stopped taking an apple-box, but no-one can afford to be the first to stop, as then they will get no view at all. The only solution is to ban apple-boxes from football venues. When considering the merits of such a rule, you must consider not only the cost to you of your not having an apple-box, but also the benefit to you of everyone else not having one either.

that analogy doesn't apply here though, as football is a limited time event and to see everyone has to be there, were a football match 24/7 then the embankment would be empty or not obscured most of the time, especially when people are asleep, at work, school, or on the other end of the world.

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#265 Multilingual 

Jazzy
Fyrosfreddy,
Merci de rendre ton post traductible!!!
Surtout quand c’est un pavé qu’on aurait peiné à lire dans notre propre langue.
Merci.

[Ajout de Tamarea] C'est fait, son post est traduisible.

Unfortunately, I had no control over this .... my "flag" kept changing to french ... I was having to reset it every time I came on the forum ... even after this post.    After some support discussions on RC, I think it's finally fixed.
Syron

Et ce post est censé plaidé en faveur de quoi? D'un Arispotle-like ou tout le monde il est beau?

Une bonne partie des joueurs français ont un jeu aux antipodes du votre et les anglais dictent leur façon de jouer depuis bientôt 8 ans.
Tu dis toi même que sur votre ancien serveur, le lore des factions ne servaient à rien puisqu'il n'y avait pas (ou peu) de confrontation. Super!

Yes it was great .... Please explain what do you object to with "in your words" "Arispotle" people doing what they like to do, Aniro folk doing what they like to do and Leanon folk doing what they want to do ?  Or anyone else.   I go to a restaurant and it has menu choices ... people who don't want to eat red meat have options ... people whp prefer seafood have options, people who want a salad have that option.   What's with the "No damn it, you will eat hot dogs, you will pay for them and like it" routine !

I don't pay my monthly subscription to make your game enjoyable the way you want to play it.  A subset of the player base, from all servers but mostly Aniro,  treats Atys like Napoleon and demands that everyone play their way ... that is not goiung to happen because if it does, the game can not survive.    You wanna make believe you are a  superhero, you have the right to do so, and I'm fine with that  fine ... you want to make belive you are an evil sociopath, you have the right to do so and I'm fine with that .... but you don't have the right to dicate that anyone else  join your imaginarly world.

Sinvaders
The reason of why most of the things are happening EU time is because the majority of volunteers are on this timezone.
And they are volunteers not employees

Ok so since we are getting less services ... less content, less access to rewards, etc.,  ..... and missing all these "RP Events" because we are sleeping, it could be argued that subscriptions should be different and priced accordingly based upon access to this content.

Could also be said that thewestern folk "subsidizing" the euro folk.  What about the folks down under ?  I spend at least 2/3 my logged in time creating tools, testing DMs, filing bug reports.  You want people  to pay the same, get less and, ..... on top of that,  change our play styles to fit the game YOU enjoy  ?
Xiom
Fyrosfreddy
Not all MMORPGs condone multiboxing.... Not all MMORPGs condone multiboxing....Ryzom has always been one of them


et bien allez jouer sur ces jeux puisque le multiboxing y est autorisé !

Please reread the existing terms and conditions, you seem to have misread.  Ryzom *** IS *** one of them.  Always has been.
Heernis
Einverstanden. Aber ein Fakt ist, dass jedes MMORPG nicht fürs Multiboxing kreiert wurde, sondern nur eine nicht dafür gedachte Anwendungsmöglichkeit ist, die aus der Notwendigkeit von mehreren Charakteren und einer geringen Spielerbasis entstanden ist.

Interesting and thoughtful interpretation that made me think on several topics but I don't see how anyone that was not "in the room" is in a position to say what it was created for.  But these facts remain:

1.  Nevrax not only "did not prohibit" MB but spefically coded it into the game with the "/multi command".  Didn't even need a 2nd account early on.  And they specifically made a point of adding it in the CoC.  I am therefore unable to "make the leap" to reach the "wasn't created for" conclusion when the devs went through the trouble of creating specific coding allowing it.

2.  Every ownership since has specifically addressed it in the CoC.

I have 4 PCs and 2 laptops in this room.  I choose not to use multiple toons ... I consider using a dig or heal slave a personal affront to my toon's "character" if you will or perhaps better said, I'm here for the entertainment and the challenge; for me that challenge is doing things w/o alts.

But I also don't see it within my purview to dictate how other players play the game ... I find it very uncomfortable that other players do.

Erisapple
What the actual F? Those of you that are butt-hurt need to stop and just play your own toon your own way. Because what it really boils down to is that some of you think your way is the only way. That's not how it is.

The real problem, AGAIN, is that the use of 3rd party programs needs to be dealt with and stopped at the client level.

AFAIK, no one has been found to be using any 3rd party tool.  This has been investigated and the powers that be have found that a) the individual is controlling the alts within the rules of the game and b)  the allegations were false.

Outside of politics "people are saying" does not constutute the burden of proof.  The evidence has been voluntarily submitted, thoroughly examined and charges soundly refuted.   People just have to accept the fact that certain players have developed a skill level, within the boundary of the existing game rules that exceeds their own and they simply don't want to to have to admit that fact to themseves.

On one hand, I have no axe to grind ... on the other I know little about the skills involved to master it.   I play the game to give my brain a rest, work is stressful; make a mistake and things fall down and people die.  I don't want to "relax" by concentrating on doing 4-5 things at once.

The only argument I see against MB falls under the "pay to win" concept" .  I once had 3 accounts ... my own and 2 of my sons.    Is me playing all 3 really that different than having each of them play.   It's a hard questions because the answer will always depend upon where you are sitting .... and I'm not even sitting in the room since I don't use alts ever.

Since the opportunity is open to all, the only complaint can be ... "he / she is better than me and I can't compte" because a) I can't afford to or b)  I don't have the skills.

a)  This can be considered unfair
b)  This is just "whinerbagging"

On the admin side, why process 5 transactions paying 5 sets of processing fees. What if anything could be done with a different type of account that allows 1 processing fee and allows X number of toons to launch ?   Perhaps do a deal for $34.95 for up to 5 toons and I womder if that would allow closer activity monitoring so that all the imagined 3rd party software / botting fears would go away.

Edited 8 times | Last edited by Fyrosfreddy (4 years ago)

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#266 [en] 

*withdrawn*

Last edited by Fleetwood (4 years ago)

#267 [en] 

Fyrosfreddy

I don't pay my monthly subscription to make your game enjoyable the way you want to play it.  A subset of the player base, from all servers but mostly Aniro,  treats Atys like Napoleon and demands that everyone play their way ... that is not goiung to happen because if it does, the game can not survive.    You wanna make believe you are a  superhero, you have the right to do so, and I'm fine with that  fine ... you want to make belive you are an evil sociopath, you have the right to do so and I'm fine with that .... but you don't have the right to dicate that anyone else  join your imaginarly world.


Let's say it again for the people in the cheap seats!!!

Fyrosfreddy
Erisapple
What the actual F? Those of you that are butt-hurt need to stop and just play your own toon your own way. Because what it really boils down to is that some of you think your way is the only way. That's not how it is.

The real problem, AGAIN, is that the use of 3rd party programs needs to be dealt with and stopped at the client level.

AFAIK, no one has been found to be using any 3rd party tool.  This has been investigated and the powers that be have found that a) the individual is controlling the alts within the rules of the game and b)  the allegations were false.


I do realize that. That did seem to have been the start to all of this mess LOL But if that was added then people would have to own up to just being angry that others are better or can afford to do it. You know, the other answer B)... whinerbagging. ;)

Fyrosfreddy
On the admin side, why process 5 transactions paying 5 sets of processing fees. What if anything could be done with a different type of account that allows 1 processing fee and allows X number of toons to launch ? 

I personally would love something like this. An easier way to pay would be great but I don't care about a discount. Not speaking at you Freddy, just in general... As far as an alt goes, I could do what ever with Khao unsubbed. I choose to sub her because I want to pay to support the parts of Ryzom I know cost money. I remember the dark days of Nevrax>Game Forge when servers were shutting down and what not. I don't ever want to see that again. I still have PTSD >.>

Yaandor
As far as hate and discontent; well the game lore, history and coding does sort of enforce violence, bigotry and racism. It's built into the game. However, you don't have to succumb to it or endorse it; you can overcome it.

You're not wrong there. But again I have lines and those homins are not someone I would like to help. I'm just a peron that can fight you in a battle then help you level or whatever. I also wish there was a way for you to work that heal, cause damn it you deserve it!

Last edited by Erisapple (4 years ago)

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ErisApple
Homin Reaper Karavan

#268 [de] 

Fyrosfreddy
Heernis
Einverstanden. Aber ein Fakt ist, dass jedes MMORPG nicht fürs Multiboxing kreiert wurde, sondern nur eine nicht dafür gedachte Anwendungsmöglichkeit ist, die aus der Notwendigkeit von mehreren Charakteren und einer geringen Spielerbasis entstanden ist.

Interesting and thoughtful interpretation that made me think on several topics but I don't see how anyone that was not "in the room" is in a position to say what it was created for.  But these facts remain:

1.  Nevrax not only "did not prohibit" MB but spefically coded it into the game with the "/multi command".  Didn't even need a 2nd account early on.  And they specifically made a point of adding it in the CoC.  I am therefore unable to "make the leap" to reach the "wasn't created for" conclusion when the devs went through the trouble of creating specific coding allowing it.

Quelle? Ich mein, ich lese das nur von dir. Wenn es einen "/multi"-Befehl wirklich gegeben haben soll, dann gibt es sicherlich eine Aufzeichnung darüber. Ansonsten kannst du alles behaupten. Auf Github und auf Gitlab hab ich nichts derartiges gefunden.

Fyrosfreddy
But I also don't see it within my purview to dictate how other players play the game ... I find it very uncomfortable that other players do.

Da stimme ich dir zu. Es geht 100% darum, anderen etwas zu diktieren. In einer blumigen und anarchischen Welt wird es sowas nicht geben, aber wir haben so eine Welt nicht und es bleibt eine Utopie. Genauso wie Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzungen dafür sorgen, dass alle mit dem selben Tempo fahren, sollte es auch Begrenzung der simultanen Charaktere geben. Wenn hohe Geschwindigkeiten andere Teilnehmer behindern oder auf manchen Straßen ein Gefahrenpotenzial sind, dann sollte auch die simultanen Charaktere zugunsten jedes Einzelnen begrenzt, die Begrenzung regelmäßig geprüft und gegebenenfalls angepasst werden. So einfach.

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Nicht klicken!


#269 [en] 

Fyrosfreddy
Sinvaders
The reason of why most of the things are happening EU time is because the majority of volunteers are on this timezone.
And they are volunteers not employees

Ok so since we are getting less services ... less content, less access to rewards, etc.,  ..... and missing all these "RP Events" because we are sleeping, it could be argued that subscriptions should be different and priced accordingly based upon access to this content.

Could also be said that thewestern folk "subsidizing" the euro folk.  What about the folks down under ?  I spend at least 2/3 my logged in time creating tools, testing DMs, filing bug reports.  You want people  to pay the same, get less and, ..... on top of that,  change our play styles to fit the game YOU enjoy  ?

So maybe the EU volunteers should just stop doing what they do. Everyone will be at the same level of experience.
It's what happened when there is no money to pay people to do a job, you rely on volunteers and you can't force them to do something at 4a.m to please your customers but you can hire people to do this job (but that requires money).

Talking about paying the same and having less: why do I pay the same amount as you and I don't have access to occupation (cities and I can't enter cities) ? Maybe, they should lower my sub price as well as yours.

#270 [fr] 

Puisque le sujet est relancé, j'en profite.

Est ce que Ryzom est un jeu Pay2Win ? Si oui alors pourquoi tant d’histoire, et pourquoi ne pas autorisé encore plus de compte par joueur et les outils pour gérer tout ce petit monde d'ALT ?

Est ce que Ryzom est un jeu collaboratif ? Si c'est le cas alors pourquoi tout le monde se ballade avec au moins son ALT 125 heal dans le dos, pourquoi ne pas autorisé qu'un seul compte par joueur ?


Perso ça embêterai de ne plus avoir mon ALT 125 heal dans le dos, ça m'obligerai à demander de l'aide à d'autre joueur et à les aider en retour.

Prise de tête cette histoire bon courage pour la décision.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Valerof (4 years ago)

#271 [fr] 

Valerof
Perso ça embêterai de ne plus avoir mon ALT 125 heal dans le dos, ça m'obligerai à demander de l'aide à d'autre joueur et à les aider en retour.

Un alt, cela suit bêtement son maitre, alors que moi, je fonce dans les aggros ! C’est quand même plus rigolo :-)

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Hendat



________________

Une Larme parmi Les Larmes
C’est comme une goutte d’eau dans un lac
C’est fragile, mais un lac on peut s’y noyer
________________

#272 [en] 

Heernis
Quelle? Ich mein, ich lese das nur von dir. Wenn es einen "/multi"-Befehl wirklich gegeben haben soll, dann gibt es sicherlich eine Aufzeichnung darüber. Ansonsten kannst du alles behaupten. Auf Github und auf Gitlab hab ich nichts derartiges gefunden.

It's all over the old forums. It's not necessary now because the current installer makes it much more simple.

Valerof
Perso ça embêterai de ne plus avoir mon ALT 125 heal dans le dos, ça m'obligerai à demander de l'aide à d'autre joueur et à les aider en retour.

Not having an alt would not force me to ask for help or to team. My timing and situation will not change no matter what. All it will do is make me get maybe 10 less grind mats per node. Not really a big deal to me. Also, there is still the dear Yaandor out there in the lakes living a great life not teaming or asking any one for any thing. Alts don't dictate how other players play.

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ErisApple
Homin Reaper Karavan

#273 [fr] 

About digging without alts, there others techniques for digging 400+ mps in 20 minutes (killing nodes instead of healing).

#274 [fr] 

Allez, ça fait un bon mois que la discussion patine, la moitié des joueurs a disparu, il n'y a pas vraiment de réponses de l'équipe d'animation/CSR...
Je crois qu'on peut se contenter du statu quo et clore le sujet.

Bon jeu à tous.

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Ducocinnio Nono, dit Duke Nono
Noble Matis, artisan de la maison noble La Firme
Gardien du Royaume et Béni de Jena

#275 [fr] 

La moitié!? Carrément ^^
Et si on s’attardait sur le contenu du jeu, on a besoin d’énergie pour cela.

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Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#276 [fr] 

Jazzy
La moitié!? Carrément ^^
Sur le fil de discussion tout du moins, sur le jeu je n'en sais rien... :-°

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Ducocinnio Nono, dit Duke Nono
Noble Matis, artisan de la maison noble La Firme
Gardien du Royaume et Béni de Jena

#277 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
Hello,
The multiboxing topic will be discussed on Monday 22nd June at the Ryzom Forge meeting.

Last edited by Tamarea (4 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#278 Multilingual 

Tamarea
Hello,
The multiboxing topic will be discussed on Monday 22nd June at the Ryzom Forge meeting.

Please dont remove this by saying its irrelevant


Just remember that your had an influx of players because of a pandemic

you should look at the facts.

the game was designed to be played in a way that everyone can target one persons target and follow a leader, we have a macro system that enables that, anyone who refutes this doesnt understand the mechanics of the game.

ingame tools are provided so that 8 individual players in a team can target the team leaders target, follow heal and nuke all in 3 keys.

you only need three buttons and a mouse to play this game if you use the ingame macro system

so the questions regarding multiple toons should be.

1. how many accounts are registered to the same email
2. how many are paid for by the same person. (credit card)
3. how many of these are still active
4. how many pandemic subs did you gain or will lose as people go back to work.

here is my personal point of view:

pre merger i ran an entire guild where everyone was taught the macro system, everyone had a role to play in PvP and PvE, we used voice communication and everone only needed three keys for outpost wars as part of any position they played in the team. We won 99.9% of our battles, the key was teamwork, voice communication and understanding the mechanics of the game.

i can say this without a doubt that anyone playing 4 characters at once is at a disadvantage when playing against a well organised opponent team unless they have team of individual players backing them up.

Last edited by Nitrouss (4 years ago)

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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, you gain strength.
Through strength, you gain power.
Through power, you gain victory.
Through victory, your chains are broken.
Ma-Duk shall free you.
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