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#250 Added by Fleetwood 4 years ago [en]

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Adding my voice to those who have argued that a two-toon limit has no rational justification. One and many are rational options, but two is just arbitrary.

My preference is for a one-toon limit, and this is why:
The reason I play an MMO rather than a single-player game is that I want to play with other people. I want it to be a social experience. But if everyone else is playing with their own alts, they have no need to play with me.

#251 Added by Nitrouss 4 years ago [en]

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Fleetwood

Adding my voice to those who have argued that a two-toon limit has no rational justification. One and many are rational options, but two is just arbitrary.

My preference is for a one-toon limit, and this is why:
The reason I play an MMO rather than a single-player game is that I want to play with other people. I want it to be a social experience. But if everyone else is playing with their own alts, they have no need to play with me.

your argument would be vaid if the game had a massive population... mmorpg stand for....massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. ryzom has maybe 200 players at max, different factions, time zones and languages.. most times its hard to even find a team.

Last edited by Nitrouss (4 years ago)

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#252 Added by Fleetwood 4 years ago [en]

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Nitrouss

your argument would be vaid if the game had a massive population... mmorpg stand for....massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. ryzom has maybe 200 players at max, different factions, time zones and languages.. most times its hard to even find a team.

I draw the opposite conclusion from the same facts. The fewer people there are online, the more imperative it is that they play together rather than alone.

Last edited by Fleetwood (4 years ago)

#253 Added by Jorgensen 4 years ago [en]

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i consider this an MMO in the sense of Minimally Multiplayer .. especially in my timezone. I use one unsubbed second account and that lets me level and dig at a reasonable rate. Searching around every day for someone at the right level to train with is unrealistic. I agree with fleetwood that the game *should* be about cooperating to achieve stuff, but I also agree with nitrouss that it is too small and the current population too unfriendly to insist that people don't use alts

#254 Added by Heernis 4 years ago Multilingual

Multilingual | Deutsch | [English]

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Now think about it. If I broke the whole subject down to a very naive board game. Let's say, "Don't be angry." This game is designed from the start to be a four-player board game. There are 4 slots that can be filled. All are equal and have the same prerequisites. The dice determine the course of the game.

Now it' s time for the Multiboxers!

If 2 players play and each controls 2 figures, then they have the same conditions.

But if one player occupies 3 places and the other only one, then the probability that the Multiboxer wins is tripled.

As simple as that, right?

Why should one occupy several slots as a Multiboxer at all, if there are enough people?

Social aspect: There are not enough players (which is usually not the case), or not enough who want to play with you (means there are not enough who like you or you like them), or you are just so antisocial that people prefer to avoid you.

Challenge: Since the game is much too easy for you, since you only roll the dice and move pieces, you see it as a challenge to direct several pieces to make it more exciting and exhausting for you. But you forget that this game is much more fun for company and that it is designed for that.

Art: It is truly an art to play "Don't be angry" alone, but also just as sad. You rather feel sorry for the Multiboxers and would like to play with them as one player, but then there are the others. There is no space left on the board. You make a space free and everyone can be happy, but it feels more like you're the fifth wheel: "Oh, there's the other one... He can play with himself... Why should I stay?" It gives the feeling in the game that you are unimportant as a single homin and a multiboxer doesn't need me to play anyway. I better go. You can play like that, but there's always that slightly bitter taste when you see a multiboxer. You just avoid him.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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#255 Added by Sinvaders 4 years ago [en]

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Jorgensen

and dig at a reasonable rate

You do NOT need a second toon to dig at a "reasonable rate" specially if you use it for healing your sources.
This is just convenience and "laziness" (notice the ") in the sense that stability stats of sources become useless, so if eveyrone is doing that why do we keep this stats?

#256 Added by Moniq 4 years ago [en]

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Jorgensen

...Searching around every day for someone at the right level to train with is unrealistic...

In RP it sounds way more realistic than an alt dummy :)

#257 Added by Sinvaders 4 years ago [fr]

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Yes, in "RP" it doesn't make any sense. But you also need to keep in mind the gameplay point of view and the fact that some people have only little time to spend on the game (when you 4h available in a week for the game you do not want to spend half of this time by searching a team).

#258 Added by Jorgensen 4 years ago [en]

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Last edited by Jorgensen (4 years ago)

#259 Added by Elvanae 4 years ago [en]

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Beeficus

I am the multiboxing worst case scenario!

Is there a title for that? :D

In all seriousness, if I can do this in war without getting my collective butts handed to me you are all so scroooooood.

What happened to your live streams? I bet you the 5 dappers Ati tried to give me the other day that a lot of people will be interested to see your live streaming the battles this evening and tomorrow.

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#260 Added by Fleetwood 4 years ago [en]

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Jorgensen

I agree with fleetwood that the game *should* be about cooperating to achieve stuff, but I also agree with nitrouss that it is too small and the current population too unfriendly to insist that people don't use alts

Perhaps the current population is unfriendly only because they can afford to be - they don't need to be cooperative towards other players as they have their alts to play with.

One of my professors used the following analogy: suppose you are going to watch a football match, where you will stand in a crowd on an embankment. If you take an apple-box with you, and stand on it, you will get a better view. But if everyone takes an apple-box, no-one will get a better view, and everyone will have to lug an apple-box around. Everyone would be better off if everyone stopped taking an apple-box, but no-one can afford to be the first to stop, as then they will get no view at all. The only solution is to ban apple-boxes from football venues. When considering the merits of such a rule, you must consider not only the cost to you of your not having an apple-box, but also the benefit to you of everyone else not having one either.

Last edited by Fleetwood (4 years ago)

#261 Added by Moniq 4 years ago [en]

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Sinvaders

Yes, in "RP" it doesn't make any sense. But you also need to keep in mind the gameplay point of view and the fact that some people have only little time to spend on the game (when you 4h available in a week for the game you do not want to spend half of this time by searching a team).

I have actually only been amused by using the term "unrealistic" to name something very real in role-play while using alt dummy is considered to be more realistic...

#262 Added by Erisapple 4 years ago [en]

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Fleetwood

Jorgensen
I agree with fleetwood that the game *should* be about cooperating to achieve stuff, but I also agree with nitrouss that it is too small and the current population too unfriendly to insist that people don't use alts
Perhaps the current population is unfriendly only because they can afford to be - they don't need to be cooperative towards other players as they have their alts to play with.

I personally am not unfriendly. I help whoever whenever I can. Though, as a US player with random work hours there isn't a lot of good opportunities for me to team with people. I do when I can. In 6 months of being back that has been 1 plod team, 1 shalah, 2 treks and 2 OPs. Almost had a CPer once but they had to AFK and then I needed to go to bed. When I do get to join in on things, I leave Khao behind. Now that's just MY situation. Non of that will change for me if and when Khao is gone.

Now with that being said....After having been here for all of this thread, I went and read some RP backgrounds to try to understand some homin's side of things. I can say there are a few RP people that I would never team with. There is one that I wouldn't let a yubo pee on if he was on fire. I can not and will not support someone who uses "RP" to breed hate. When someone talks about master races, cooking homins and refers to Trykers being about as good as a pet, I draw a strong frigging line. I don't give a crap if this is just a game, there is too much hate in the real world already to have to see it here. So, yes there are some people that are unfriendly and alts have nothing to do with it. It's who they seem to be as people.

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ErisApple
Homin Reaper Karavan

#263 Added by Yaandor 4 years ago [en]

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Hmm, I've been here over two years. I don't team, I have no alts, I've never begged for equipment or asked for a rez and I don't do PvP. I'm neutral; no faction, no nation. Yet, somehow I've managed to gain several masters and am well on the way to several more (although my healing sucks big time).

I don't care about the multi-boxers and the PvP gamers as long as I'm not forced into things I don't want to do (although the game does try to force one despite the advertisements about "play any way you want").

As far as hate and discontent; well the game lore, history and coding does sort of enforce violence, bigotry and racism. It's built into the game. However, you don't have to succumb to it or endorse it; you can overcome it.

Play on all...

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Yaandor | Cult of Dgambi | He who walks alone
Atys is a stern and determined teacher; willing to repeat the same lesson as often as necessary.

#264 Added by Magez 4 years ago [en]

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Fleetwood

Jorgensen
I agree with fleetwood that the game *should* be about cooperating to achieve stuff, but I also agree with nitrouss that it is too small and the current population too unfriendly to insist that people don't use alts
Perhaps the current population is unfriendly only because they can afford to be - they don't need to be cooperative towards other players as they have their alts to play with.

One of my professors used the following analogy: suppose you are going to watch a football match, where you will stand in a crowd on an embankment. If you take an apple-box with you, and stand on it, you will get a better view. But if everyone takes an apple-box, no-one will get a better view, and everyone will have to lug an apple-box around. Everyone would be better off if everyone stopped taking an apple-box, but no-one can afford to be the first to stop, as then they will get no view at all. The only solution is to ban apple-boxes from football venues. When considering the merits of such a rule, you must consider not only the cost to you of your not having an apple-box, but also the benefit to you of everyone else not having one either.

that analogy doesn't apply here though, as football is a limited time event and to see everyone has to be there, were a football match 24/7 then the embankment would be empty or not obscured most of the time, especially when people are asleep, at work, school, or on the other end of the world.

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