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#138 Added by Soleya 5 years ago Multilingual

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Everyone seems to be calming down a bit, taking every argument into account, that's nice :) .

I completely agree with Kyriann and Mithian on that idea of a solution. As they say, if when you get a ticket once you can prove that you can play with 3 alts for a while without struggling and without cheating, then you're "free to go".

Then the imbalance issue due to the alts on Outpots wars for instance is still a problem. So here's a suggestion :
I believe that the CSR's decision implied that : If, after the change in the CoC, we walk by someone using three alts and ticket them, with a video as proof, then they could be punished since (I'm using approximately Tykus's words during RF, if I remember correctly) "when you have three alts following you and obeying you, it's very easy to see and detect". So we just do that to estimate if someone has his alts with him or not.
So why not establishing a list of activities that you are not allowed to do with alts (like OP wars or PvP for example), and apply the previous principle only in these cases? This way, if you are just training by yourself with your alts, if you don't bother anyone, then no need for a ticket. Meanwhile, on an OP war or during PvP, if you're seen (and ticketed) using your alts and if it's "easy to see and detect" on any video that will be used for proof, then you can be punished/banned.

#139 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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how am i going to record my screen and keyboard+mouse at the same time? will be one hell of a messy video.

edit:
can try with phone i guess....

Last edited by Magez (5 years ago)

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#140 Added by Moniq 5 years ago [en]

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Magez

how am i going to record my screen and keyboard+mouse at the same time? will be one hell of a messy video.

edit:
can try with phone i guess....

https://en.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Making_evidence

#141 Added by Jorgensen 5 years ago [en]

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Should we also report people with no alts, but who still might be cheating with third party tools? For instance recharging enchants too fast or always healing their partner instantly when the health drops to exactly the same level? That sort of thing is very suspcious. I think they should have to provide home videos of their gameplay too just to be safe. What about people who never talk? Or people who talk really weird like an AI? Some of those are probably automated systems levelling while the player sleeps. This is a big problem. We know that tens of thousands of man-hours have been spent by the world's top developers to create undetectable cheat-clients for ryzom the game with 100 bored middle-aged players. We should maybe just report a few general players each day for random spot-checks. I definately think we should force every suspicious player (you know the type) to install a small, unobtrusive camera in their gaming room, over their shoulder, so the devs can watch them play at any time. In case cheating. Why would you disagree unless you have something to hide?

I'm just throwing ideas around here. we don't need to implement every single one.

#142 Added by Hendat 5 years ago Multilingual

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Hi Beeficus,

I was one of the people watching your live performance.

First of all, thank you for sharing.

A few points for reflection:

I'm impressed by your multiboxing skills, your ability to move between your four accounts and your graphic organization. In short, you're using multiboxing to its fullest potential.
I can see how someone who hasn't seen this video might think you're cheating. There's no doubt about it, you're following the code of conduct. I'm not sure that when the code of conduct was put in place it was imagined that people would exploit multiboxing to such an extent. One could say that you are on the edge of legality.
If everyone used multiboxing in your way, I'm not sure I would enjoy playing Ryzom.
I understand your sense of unfairness about a possible change in the code of conduct. You've invested all these years paying four accounts, you've developed a way to play, and now it's all being questioned.
One solution could be the acquired advantage. Those who are playing with multiple accounts as of May 12, the date of the first post in this thread, can continue to play. That way, Beeficus would keep its advantage, and it would prevent an army of gamers from using multiboxing as it does. Then there's the question of outposts. Perhaps, quite simply, banning the Alts from the outposts.
Problem for those who have several accounts with the same IP address. Normally, an account has a payment card and a payment card has a name. If you have the same name twice, you can consider that it is the same person.

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Hendat (5 years ago)

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Hendat

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#143 Added by Soleya 5 years ago Multilingual

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Jorgensen

Should we also report people with no alts, but who still might be cheating with third party tools? For instance recharging enchants too fast or always healing their partner instantly when the health drops to exactly the same level? That sort of thing is very suspcious. I think they should have to provide home videos of their gameplay too just to be safe. What about people who never talk? Or people who talk really weird like an AI? Some of those are probably automated systems levelling while the player sleeps. This is a big problem. We know that tens of thousands of man-hours have been spent by the world's top developers to create undetectable cheat-clients for ryzom the game with 100 bored middle-aged players. We should maybe just report a few general players each day for random spot-checks. I definately think we should force every suspicious player (you know the type) to install a small, unobtrusive camera in their gaming room, over their shoulder, so the devs can watch them play at any time. In case cheating. Why would you disagree unless you have something to hide?

I'm just throwing ideas around here. we don't need to implement every single one.

I think the camera idea might not be completely legal, and extremely intrusive :p
But I guess if someone plays in a VERY VERY suspicious way, you could always tell a CSR and discuss about it with him.
But since your message is about people with no alts using a bot, I'm not sure that's the right topic, since the proposition of change for the CoC will not change anything for them :)

#144 Added by Arxxan 5 years ago [en]

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@soleya guess this was ironic to show how ridiculous the whole discussions about proof is.

#145 Added by Haruto 5 years ago [en]

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Jorgensen

I definately think we should force every suspicious player (you know the type) to install a small, unobtrusive camera in their gaming room, over their shoulder, so the devs can watch them play at any time. In case cheating. Why would you disagree unless you have something to hide?

Do you mean I would need to get DRESSED to play? That's a big NO. /s

#146 Added by Azazor 5 years ago [fr]

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Je pense que les dév devraient proposer un sondage avec ces 3 choix:
- interdiction d'avoir plus de 2 comptes connectés en même temps(proposition initiale des dév)
- interdiction d'avoir plus de 2 comptes connectés en même temps sauf si possibilité de prouver qu'on utilise pas de logiciel tiers (compromis de kyriann)
- autorisation d'utiliser plus de 2 comptes mais interdiction d'utiliser un logiciel tiers (comme avant en fait)

Bien sûr, il y aurait trois conditions à respecter:
- évidemment, on ne fait pas voter ses alt. C'est un vote par joueur. Bon, ça suppose la confiance après...
- Ce sondage ne serait que purement informatif, pour que l'équipe puisse ensuite faire son choix en toute connaissance de cause. Ryzom n'est pas une démocratie.
- Peu importe le résultat, pas de menace de quitter le jeu avant la prise de décision (même si ça n'empêche pas ensuite chaque joueur de partir si le jeu ne lui plait plus, mais ne pas le dire avant, car ce serait une forme de chantage).

Last edited by Fyrenor (5 years ago)

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#147 Added by Bastien 5 years ago [fr]

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Pour moi, je ne connais pas de mmo, autre que Ryzom qui permet de jouer avec plusieurs comptes.
Donc ça ne me pose pas de problème. Je ne pratique que le forage avec un reroll soigneur.

Si j'ai bien compris, jouer avec x comptes poserait un problème avec certains contenus futurs, qui serait optimisé pour 4 joueurs, d'où ma question :
Ne pourrais ton pas bloquer le multiboxing uniquement lors de ses nouveaux défis ? Si c'est possible techniquement.

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#148 Added by Zarden 5 years ago Multilingual

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Comme Jorgensen l'a montré avec ironie, prouver que vous avez la capacité à multiboxer sans tricher est très compliqué.

Je pense que ces 3ème et 4ème alts pourraien être interdits sur certaines activités :
- Guerres d'avant poste
- Nouvelles features de la story line que Ulukyn a mentionné
- Chasse aux rois, s'il y a un seul "vrai" joueur dans la team (autrement les alts ne changent pas grand chose à l'affaire)

Si ces règles n'étaient pas respectées, il serait assez facile le prouver avec quelques screenshots et un ticket. Les joueurs qui multiboxent pourraient en plus être obligés de communiquer le nom de leurs toons aux GM pour faciliter la modération.

L'idée est de les exclure des aspects les plus compétitifs du jeu pour que personne ne se sente lésé.

Je pense que sur les spots Magiques les alts ne sont pas un gros avantage; c'est très simple de les tuer avec une petite équipe en PvP tournoyant car quand un ou plusieurs alts sont morts leurs macros ne fonctionnent plus et les joueurs qui multiboxent manquent de mobilité. Mais ça pourrait aussi leur être interdit.

#149 Added by Kigan 5 years ago [fr]

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Que les inquiets se rassurent, je me réabonne pour endiguer le flot de départ ! Blague à part, jolie performance de Beeficus.

A mon époque, le multiboxing existait, mais n'était pas non plus monnaie courante. C'était plutôt la "signature" de certains joueurs, et ça faisait plus sourire qu'autre chose. Je repense notamment à Xylog et Canonia.

Ne jouant plus, je suis incapable de visualiser l'importance que cela a pris ces dernières années. En tout cas, ça soulève les foules. Il a bien longtemps que le forum n'avait pas été aussi animé ! Peut-être est-il venu le moment de relancer les vrais débats intéressants, comme celui d’un Ryzom full-PvP ?

Retourne troller seul dans sa caverne

Last edited by Kigan (5 years ago)

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#150 Added by Ulukyn 5 years ago Multilingual

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I was the first one to swear 3000% that beeficus was cheating (so in reality... I'll be dead...). After seeing his stream I realized how wrong I was.
I then tried to understand my mistake

And I understood that it was a server optimization that doesn't send the information in real time, but rather aggregates it to send it all at once. (I still wonder how I could not have thought of that? :( )

Therefore, although it may seem obvious to the eye in the game, this is not really the case.

I wanted to make my mea culpa and say that one of the reasons why I, from my point of view as a dev, made this change was totally unfounded.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by ERR: Author Not Set (5 years ago)

#151 Added by Jenn 5 years ago [fr]

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Zarden

Je pense que ces 3ème et 4ème alts pourraien être interdits sur certaines activités :
- Guerres d'avant poste
- Nouvelles features de la story line que Ulukyn a mentionné
- Chasse aux rois, s'il y a un seul "vrai" joueur dans la team (autrement les alts ne changent pas grand chose à l'affaire)

Bonne idée - mais est-ce possible ?
Je veux dire, comment, en pratique développer de telles sfonctionnalités ?

#152 Added by Soleya 5 years ago Multilingual

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Jenn

Zarden
Je pense que ces 3ème et 4ème alts pourraien être interdits sur certaines activités :
- Guerres d'avant poste
- Nouvelles features de la story line que Ulukyn a mentionné
- Chasse aux rois, s'il y a un seul "vrai" joueur dans la team (autrement les alts ne changent pas grand chose à l'affaire)
Bonne idée - mais est-ce possible ?
Je veux dire, comment, en pratique développer de telles sfonctionnalités ?

Sans développer quoique ce soit, plutot en suivant le meme principe que l'idee de base : on met en place la regle, et (comme l'a dit Zarden), si elle n'est pas respectée, c'est facilement prouvable avec screenshot/video et ticket.

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