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#108 Added by Arxxan 5 years ago [en]

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Eolinius

Avec tous les alts qui répondent au sondage ou pas ?

*rigole pour détendre l'atmosphère*

-deleted-

Last edited by Arxxan (5 years ago)

#109 Added by Elke 5 years ago [en]

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Let's face it: multiboxing is a way of pay-to-win.

It gives advantage in two or three areas:

It's used to level faster without user-interaction.
It's used to win fights without getting people behind your cause ("I am more than you").
It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.

And it's a very valid question on how much you want to allow single people literally buy these advantages with real money and how much that impacts the motivation of people who don't want or cannot go that route.

The more extensivly you allow it, the more you implicitly limit the game to people who spend more money on both, accounts and hardware. That in turn reduces the playerbase and the result basically is where we nearly are: a group of a few players who all play ("play"?) several chars in parallel - and of course are not happy when their powerplay is frowned upon and slightly restricted in order to increase or keep the appeal of this game for the usual and possibly also occasional playerbase who is not a power player. It's a very precarious balance which has to be found here... and it very likely is neither fully one side (allow everything) nor the other (allow only one char). I don't envy the team to find it - but we all should assume good faith that their best interest is to make this the most exciting game for as many as possible.

And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Elke (5 years ago)

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#110 Added by Jyrvie 5 years ago [en]

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Elke

And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

I don't agree with you at all. Mainly because I don't try to outperform anybody and this restriction from 4 to 2 toons (we don't speak of subed toons, I don't have 4 subed accounts) limit my freedom of play.

Please I ask everybody to stop thinking their way to play Ryzom is THE good way. We have many different ways to play Ryzom, and this difference is a real treasure. In my opinion this the heart of Ryzom interest.

This is a matter of tolerance, people are different, think different, like different things.

Please don't start normalising how to play Ryzom.

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Ba'Arppy Jyrvie

#111 Added by Jazzy 5 years ago [fr]

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Dans ce cas, laissez les joueurs ignorez les adeptes du multibox, car ca sera leur façon de jouer egalement... et leur droit de penser.
On va en arriver là... c'est evident... et c'est très très très... dommage.

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Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#112 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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Elke

Let's face it: multiboxing is a way of pay-to-win.

It gives advantage in two or three areas:

It's used to level faster without user-interaction.
It's used to win fights without getting people behind your cause ("I am more than you").
It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.

And it's a very valid question on how much you want to allow single people literally buy these advantages with real money and how much that impacts the motivation of people who don't want or cannot go that route.

what?

>faster leveling without user interaction? <--- not multiboxing
multiboxing is a human pressing buttons and clicking mouse.

>It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging
faster how? 4 people can do the same thing, same speed
>and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.
also not true, alts do not travel at the same time to different places, they can not go to places by themself.
4 people can visit more places and faster then any multiboxer, also 4 people have 4x brains and eyes, they can travel individually and to 4 regions at once, multiboxers cannot. best they can do is leave an alt in a single spot, thats just 1 boss and not worth it, and is something anyone can do not just multibox.

i think you are confusing multibox with botting, which is a very common misconception in this community.

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#113 Added by Elke 5 years ago [en]

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Jyrvie

Elke
And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

I don't agree with you at all. Mainly because I don't try to outperform anybody and this restriction from 4 to 2 toons (we don't speak of subed toons, I don't have 4 subed accounts) limit my freedom of play.

You don't seem to have read my posting. Sadly.

So, if neither of the three points mentioned applies to you, it shouldn't hurt, if toons of the same account cannot interact in any way anymore with eachother (no healing, no caring, not attacking same target). Otherwise you *do* use it to get advantage over accounts who don't multibox - whether you acknowledge it or not.

And no, I definitely don't mix botting and multiboxing. You have an advantage whether you click manually or by bot. The latter just makes it automated. I was referring to user as in different people.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elke (5 years ago)

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#114 Added by Jyrvie 5 years ago [fr]

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yes I have,
I feel like you are insulting me after that.

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Ba'Arppy Jyrvie

#115 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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[quote=Elke][quote=Jyrvie]

Elke

And no, I definitely don't mix botting and multiboxing. You have an advantage whether you click manually or by bot. The latter just makes it automated. I was referring to user as in different people.

multiboxers have disadvantages and advantages, but none of those you mentioned are advantages multiboxers have.

faster leveling, same speed as a team of people, only thing thats faster is not having to chat to find people.

Last edited by Magez (5 years ago)

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#116 Added by Azazor 5 years ago [fr]

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Retournez lire vos cours de philo: la liberté n'est pas l'absence de règles. Vous ne perdez pas en liberté parce que vous n'avez plus le droit de faire cela. Vous perdez des possibilités de jeu, c'est tout. Mais vous êtes toujours libres d'agir dans un cadre.
Poussons la logique jusqu'au bout: je trouve qu'on devrait être libre d'être invincible face au mob. Ben oui, ça limite ma liberté d'aller et venir comme je veux. Et quand je veux pexer, c'est trop dur. Il y a là pourtant une restriction. Et celle-ci est dans l'intérêt du jeu, de ce qui est recherché, de la philosophie du jeu.

Ici, sur ryzom, ce qui est recherché, c'est pas la culture du solo versus all, du warrior qui arrive à forer comme un dingue et tuer des rois sans l'aide de personne. OUI c'est une restriction de possibilité. OUI c'est un cadre contraignant, comme n'importe quel cadre. Et c'est dans ce cadre que les joueurs peuvent exercer leur liberté.

Et je le répète: si vous n'êtes pas fichu d'accepter ce cadre au point de partir, et bien partez. C'est que finalement, ryzom n'est pas fait pour vous.
J'accepte les gens pas d'accord avec cette vision du jeu. Mais je n'accepte pas le chantage. Et autant y'en a s'ils partent, c'est juste que ce cadre ne leur plait pas. Ils ne sont qu'une micro poignée (beeficus, mathimat, generalee et peut être 2-3 autres). Et là dessus, ok, c'est leur décision, pas de soucis. Ce nouveau cadre est là pour retrouver la philosophie, l'âme du jeu. Si elle ne plait pas, soit.
Autant, certains, c'est du chantage ce que vous faites. Ce nouveau cadre n'aura aucune incidence sur votre façon de jouer, et pourtant, vous menacez de partir s'il se met en place.
Alors voilà, si les dév se plient encore une fois face aux gens qui chouinent et font du chantage, c'est moi qui part.
Vous voulez faire tapis? Et bien je refuse de me coucher encore une fois. Je fais tapis également.

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fyros pure sève
akash i orak, talen i rechten!
élucubrations
biographie

#117 Added by Alexarwe 5 years ago [en]

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So with all due respect, 1 account per player online, you are punching people like me who have paid for multiple accounts over 12 years in the face. If that comes with the two-account online per player, I can live with it. It's not pretty either, but you can accept it. But here with one account per player we should forget about it quickly (GH trades, 1full + 1Trail and and and and.) No matter how will decided later, please try to act in the interest of all players.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Alexarwe (5 years ago)

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AleXarwe

In Vino Veritas

I FELL...... SO DID YOU !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLAKgjvHdTs

THE SHOW OFF!
THE BLACK COBRA !
THE LEGEND!
THE DEMON!
FOREVER WULFSPACK!
NEW GOLD ERA IN VINO VERITAS!

Another me is what there will never be... Another life like this, you'll never see !!!

#118 Added by Azazor 5 years ago [fr]

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Alexarwe

So with all due respect, 1 account per player, you are punching people like me who have paid for multiple accounts over 12 years in the face. If that comes with the two-account cap, I can live with it. It's not pretty either, but you can accept it. But here with one account per player we should forget about it quickly (GH trades, 1full + 1Trail and and and and.) No matter how will decided later, please try to act in the interest of all players.

Vous n'avez pas compris ce qui se met en place. Il n'est pas question d'interdire d'avoir plusieurs comptes. Vous pouvez même en avoir 40 si ça vous chante. La restriction est de limiter le nombre de comptes connectés en même temps dans le jeu à 2. C'est tout.

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fyros pure sève
akash i orak, talen i rechten!
élucubrations
biographie

#119 Added by Alexarwe 5 years ago [en]

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Sure i understand, Azazor. Thanks to deepl ;) But correct it manuel. merci

Last edited by Alexarwe (5 years ago)

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AleXarwe

In Vino Veritas

#120 Added by Beeficus 5 years ago [en]

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This conversation has gotten a bit tense, and it is clear there are some strong feelings on both sides.

Personally I feel I may have over reacted initially. I have put many, many hours over many years into raising and training my alts, and training myself to be better at using them. I have enjoyed using my alts to play alone as well as socially with the friends I have here. I would be very sad to lose them, for many reasons.

But if the rules change, I will continue to play Ryzom with my friends under the new CoC. I will respect whatever decision Ulukyn makes and hope that we can move on from this.

Thanks :)

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#121 Added by Soulflyn 5 years ago [en]

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The think about multiboxing that ppl seem to forget is that everyone can do it. It is allowed for all Ryzom players to have up to 4 accounts logged at the same time, subbed or free to play.

I read ppl write in this post, that because they dont want to play with alts (for RP or non RP reasons) or they cant sub alts them selfs or their PC/laptop cant handle more clients at the same time. there should be a change that matches their limit and/or their opinion on how Ryzom should be played.

For the RPers: what makes you think that by stopping ppl multiboxing will make them magically wanna RP ? ...and lets face it, your idea of RP is: u are an other faction i dont talk play or help u with anything. dat is not RP :P That is an other thing that i wont name.

For the, my PC/laptop cant handle and i cant afford more then 1 account: My PC can and i can pay for more then 1 sub. So what u basically are saying here is that If you can not sub 1 alt or u think it is wrong to play with alt or cause u play from a launch box PC , the rest of the server also should not sub/play their alt ? Thats the spirit :P Free Ryzom Spirit

#122 Added by Jenn 5 years ago [fr]

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Azazor

Ce nouveau cadre n'aura aucune incidence sur votre façon de jouer

Et bien, à mon avis... si - puisque c'est leur facon à eux de jouer...

Azazor, toi tu aimes le RP, mais d'autres ont le droit de ne pas jouer RP.
D'autres ont le droit de s'amuser, en utilisant plusieurs comptes, il me semble (bien sur, tant qu'ils n'utilisent pas un bot, car ne respecte pas les CoC)...

Perso, je ne pourrais pas jouer 4 comptes, car mes capacités physiques ne le me permettraient pas - j'ai déja un mal fou à jouer un seul perso relativement correctement !! MDR
Mais cela ne me gène pas s'ils jouent avec 4 comptes, avec des macros. (Par ex, si un event m'est pénible physiquement - comme un tas de clics pour la storyline - ben... je ne le fais pas... D
Autres exemples, j'ai du mal avec les events kitins et le prologue de la storyline (donc peu d'Elyps)... Pour le prologue de la Storyline, j'en ai parlé à la réu Forge publique (trop de clics pour moi), on m'a répondu que le jeu était comme ca, qu'ils ne le changerait pas... ben... je ne vais plus aux réu Forge D )

Je connais peu de personnes qui jouent avec 4 comptes. Les seuls que je connaisse, en général, quand ils viennet en team pour chasser, en général, ils laissent leurs autres comptes de coté (ou alors, c'est parce qu'ils sont en gratos). Je ne vois pas pourquoi, non plus, je vais arreter de jouer avec ces personnes là...
Je joue avec les homins que j'aime bien (at, aussi je l'avoue... s'ils ne sont pas trop rapides pour moi - car parfois, avec certains,... je suis trop souvent tuée car j'arrive pas à les suivre MDR et etre tuée trop souvent, ca ne m'amuse pas des masses, perso D) et j'évite ceux que je n'aime pas D
Pour moi, c'est ca la liberté (bien sur, en respectant les CoC) D

Alors bien sur... Tu vas me dire "Mais toi, tu ne fais ni guerres d'op ni Pvp" (et c'est bien vrai). C'est vrai aussi que j'ai bien du mal à comprendre ce que certains ont expliqué ici (au sujet de guerres d'op) ; par ex, c'est Eleanide, qui m'a expliqué le pourquoi de la modif de l'interface sur les op - car moi, j'ai jamais été voir comment une guerre d'op se passe, et j'y connais rien à ca (les perso neutres qui craftent des munitions pour les autres etc... )
J'avoue que, bètement, ca me génait qu'avec mon équipe de Ranger (neutres et nous, on ne Pvp pas), ca nous embettait de ne plus pouvoir se heal, car l'un avait cliqué "défense" et l'autre "attaquant" et qu'il faut alors qu'on déco reco tous... :p
Oui, j'ai pas aimé cette modif là, car je n'en comprennais tout bètement pas la raison :p

Or, là, Ulu a parlé de futures missions Storyline... Je ne sais pas exactement de quoi il s'agit... mais peux etre que le multi box, pour cela, pose soucis ?

Enfin, vas-tu me dire, Azazor (que je suis un bisounours Ranger ? MDR nan, plus sérieusement :p), que je n'ai pas ma place ici (sur Atys), parce que

les guerres d'op sont au coeur de Ryzom, historiquement ?

que le rite Ranger est nouveau et n'a pas de sens dans les gueurres d'op ? et donc, que le faction Ranger ne devrait pas exister ?

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