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#102 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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From Forge meeting topic:

Q : LoL ! Well goodbye and goodluck then. When you cant see any way i am cheating, just change the rules again. Typical . I have been playing Ryzom this way for 12 years and you have a problem with it now? Why suddenly now? I have been reported repeatedly and because I have done nothing wrong the decision was made to change the rules?
R : It's not the point, even if you play them withoout third part program, it's not a good way to play Ryzom. Because, basically, if other MMOs don't give the possibility to play multiboxing, it's tolerated on Ryzom. But the current four-alts limit discourages playing with others. Yet Ryzom is the only game where playing with others is necessary, and we want to keep that, which is the soul of the game.

vastly successful games like 'world of warcraft' and 'guildwars' allow for multiboxing.

**my post got deleted from the topic itself with no warning or explanation why, i wanted to point out the statement construed as general fact, is in fact not.**

Last edited by Magez (5 years ago)

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#103 Added by Senshi 5 years ago [fr]

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Moi je suis okey avec cette décision, ou sinon on passe toute les zones au-dessus du niveau 150 en zone pvp et on regle cette histoire avec nos armes, on va voir combien de temps vous aller apprécier les 1v4 ou les pods blinder de seconds couteaux tout juste bon a mourrir et a être rez 150 fois en 45 minutes, le sujet serai bien plus conpréhensible pour certain si ils n'avaient pas la possible de detag comme des laches :p

#104 Added by Balkhog 5 years ago Multilingual

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**DEL** Hors Sujet/Out of topic

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Heli (5 years ago)

#105 Added by Zendae 5 years ago [fr]

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Jyrvie

- parce qu'elle limite les possibilités de roleplay. Quoiqu'en pense Azazor, le ropleplay ne se limite pas à jouer un seul personnage toujours le même. On peut scénariser de petits événements sans l'aide de personne avec des personnages bien pensés. La limité à deux personnages connectés simultanément est très gênante dans ce cas.

Je pense que ce genre d'utilisation pourrait être toléré au-delà de deux comptes, tout comme le cas "famille nombreuse". J'imagine que les personnages ne font quasiment que parler en Alentour et il devrait être facile de le vérifier. Et pourquoi pas, prévenir du micro-event juste avant par un ticket ?

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Beauté, curiosité, virtuosité !

#106 Added by Arxxan 5 years ago Multilingual

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in my opinion this is a topic that has been pushed by very specific people. it has started few weeks ago that beeficus has been accused of cheating. When this did not work, the developers were convinced to change the CoC so that they finally get what they want.
wait it's getting ridiculous, now these people act as saviors of role-playing and try to make it look like this change was the wish of the majority of the players. they go so far to call toons not participating in their roleplay as useless and bad for the game. wtf?!?
personally i think there are very few players pushing this and most people do not have a single problem with the style beef and the general would like to play.
My suggestion is to find out how many really want it and start a poll asking all players in atys

arxxan

Leader of the faceless

#107 Added by Eolinius 5 years ago [fr]

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Avec tous les alts qui répondent au sondage ou pas ?

*rigole pour détendre l'atmosphère*

#108 Added by Arxxan 5 years ago [en]

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Eolinius

Avec tous les alts qui répondent au sondage ou pas ?

*rigole pour détendre l'atmosphère*

-deleted-

Last edited by Arxxan (5 years ago)

#109 Added by Elke 5 years ago [en]

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Let's face it: multiboxing is a way of pay-to-win.

It gives advantage in two or three areas:

It's used to level faster without user-interaction.
It's used to win fights without getting people behind your cause ("I am more than you").
It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.

And it's a very valid question on how much you want to allow single people literally buy these advantages with real money and how much that impacts the motivation of people who don't want or cannot go that route.

The more extensivly you allow it, the more you implicitly limit the game to people who spend more money on both, accounts and hardware. That in turn reduces the playerbase and the result basically is where we nearly are: a group of a few players who all play ("play"?) several chars in parallel - and of course are not happy when their powerplay is frowned upon and slightly restricted in order to increase or keep the appeal of this game for the usual and possibly also occasional playerbase who is not a power player. It's a very precarious balance which has to be found here... and it very likely is neither fully one side (allow everything) nor the other (allow only one char). I don't envy the team to find it - but we all should assume good faith that their best interest is to make this the most exciting game for as many as possible.

And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Elke (5 years ago)

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#110 Added by Jyrvie 5 years ago [en]

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Elke

And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

I don't agree with you at all. Mainly because I don't try to outperform anybody and this restriction from 4 to 2 toons (we don't speak of subed toons, I don't have 4 subed accounts) limit my freedom of play.

Please I ask everybody to stop thinking their way to play Ryzom is THE good way. We have many different ways to play Ryzom, and this difference is a real treasure. In my opinion this the heart of Ryzom interest.

This is a matter of tolerance, people are different, think different, like different things.

Please don't start normalising how to play Ryzom.

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Ba'Arppy Jyrvie

#111 Added by Jazzy 5 years ago [fr]

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Dans ce cas, laissez les joueurs ignorez les adeptes du multibox, car ca sera leur façon de jouer egalement... et leur droit de penser.
On va en arriver là... c'est evident... et c'est très très très... dommage.

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Jazzy Mac'Plantey
Chef de Bai Nhori Drakani
Commandant de Bai Trykali
Citoyen célèbre

#112 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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Elke

Let's face it: multiboxing is a way of pay-to-win.

It gives advantage in two or three areas:

It's used to level faster without user-interaction.
It's used to win fights without getting people behind your cause ("I am more than you").
It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.

And it's a very valid question on how much you want to allow single people literally buy these advantages with real money and how much that impacts the motivation of people who don't want or cannot go that route.

what?

>faster leveling without user interaction? <--- not multiboxing
multiboxing is a human pressing buttons and clicking mouse.

>It's used to quicker gain an economic advantage, like faster digging
faster how? 4 people can do the same thing, same speed
>and keeping an eye on places to know when certain bosses or named re-spawn.
also not true, alts do not travel at the same time to different places, they can not go to places by themself.
4 people can visit more places and faster then any multiboxer, also 4 people have 4x brains and eyes, they can travel individually and to 4 regions at once, multiboxers cannot. best they can do is leave an alt in a single spot, thats just 1 boss and not worth it, and is something anyone can do not just multibox.

i think you are confusing multibox with botting, which is a very common misconception in this community.

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#113 Added by Elke 5 years ago [en]

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Jyrvie

Elke
And please: restriction to even one account per person does NOT limit your freedom of play. It just limits your freedom to outperform other players by paying more.

I don't agree with you at all. Mainly because I don't try to outperform anybody and this restriction from 4 to 2 toons (we don't speak of subed toons, I don't have 4 subed accounts) limit my freedom of play.

You don't seem to have read my posting. Sadly.

So, if neither of the three points mentioned applies to you, it shouldn't hurt, if toons of the same account cannot interact in any way anymore with eachother (no healing, no caring, not attacking same target). Otherwise you *do* use it to get advantage over accounts who don't multibox - whether you acknowledge it or not.

And no, I definitely don't mix botting and multiboxing. You have an advantage whether you click manually or by bot. The latter just makes it automated. I was referring to user as in different people.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Elke (5 years ago)

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#114 Added by Jyrvie 5 years ago [fr]

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yes I have,
I feel like you are insulting me after that.

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Ba'Arppy Jyrvie

#115 Added by Magez 5 years ago [en]

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[quote=Elke][quote=Jyrvie]

Elke

And no, I definitely don't mix botting and multiboxing. You have an advantage whether you click manually or by bot. The latter just makes it automated. I was referring to user as in different people.

multiboxers have disadvantages and advantages, but none of those you mentioned are advantages multiboxers have.

faster leveling, same speed as a team of people, only thing thats faster is not having to chat to find people.

Last edited by Magez (5 years ago)

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#116 Added by Azazor 5 years ago [fr]

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Retournez lire vos cours de philo: la liberté n'est pas l'absence de règles. Vous ne perdez pas en liberté parce que vous n'avez plus le droit de faire cela. Vous perdez des possibilités de jeu, c'est tout. Mais vous êtes toujours libres d'agir dans un cadre.
Poussons la logique jusqu'au bout: je trouve qu'on devrait être libre d'être invincible face au mob. Ben oui, ça limite ma liberté d'aller et venir comme je veux. Et quand je veux pexer, c'est trop dur. Il y a là pourtant une restriction. Et celle-ci est dans l'intérêt du jeu, de ce qui est recherché, de la philosophie du jeu.

Ici, sur ryzom, ce qui est recherché, c'est pas la culture du solo versus all, du warrior qui arrive à forer comme un dingue et tuer des rois sans l'aide de personne. OUI c'est une restriction de possibilité. OUI c'est un cadre contraignant, comme n'importe quel cadre. Et c'est dans ce cadre que les joueurs peuvent exercer leur liberté.

Et je le répète: si vous n'êtes pas fichu d'accepter ce cadre au point de partir, et bien partez. C'est que finalement, ryzom n'est pas fait pour vous.
J'accepte les gens pas d'accord avec cette vision du jeu. Mais je n'accepte pas le chantage. Et autant y'en a s'ils partent, c'est juste que ce cadre ne leur plait pas. Ils ne sont qu'une micro poignée (beeficus, mathimat, generalee et peut être 2-3 autres). Et là dessus, ok, c'est leur décision, pas de soucis. Ce nouveau cadre est là pour retrouver la philosophie, l'âme du jeu. Si elle ne plait pas, soit.
Autant, certains, c'est du chantage ce que vous faites. Ce nouveau cadre n'aura aucune incidence sur votre façon de jouer, et pourtant, vous menacez de partir s'il se met en place.
Alors voilà, si les dév se plient encore une fois face aux gens qui chouinent et font du chantage, c'est moi qui part.
Vous voulez faire tapis? Et bien je refuse de me coucher encore une fois. Je fais tapis également.

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