Live and Let Dig. - English - Ryzom Community Forum

#16 Added by Azazor 5 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

Puisque ce topic dérive vers un procès des larmes, je me permet de prendre, un peu, leur défense.

Je ne sais pas ce que chaque joueur des larmes pensent. Mais pour Azazor, les larmes sont un groupe de mercenaires chargé d'équilibrer les rapports de force entre homins. Ils soutiennent généralement les factions les plus faibles (d'où pendant un temps les kalamar). Et pour soutenir, il faut combattre. C'est très border line avec les préceptes rangers qui disent bien que combattre des homins doit être une exception. Mais c'est toute la richesse de cette guilde, jouer avec les limites.

On peut aussi imaginer que le côté ranger n'est qu'une façade et cache en fait soit:
- une guilde en lien avec les trytonnistes, du moins pour les plus gradés d'entre eux. Ce qui expliquerait leur nature plus combative et leurs errances de comportement, devant s'adapter à chaque fois au rapport de force ambiant.
- une guilde de mercenaires purs qui trompent les rangers et qui dans ce cas, se doivent d'être dénoncé auprès des instances rangers. Mais de manière RP. Et aux instances de décider si les larmes doivent ou non être exclu des rangers par leur comportement. Si les larmes veulent jouer le jeu et défendre leur rp, tant mieux. Sinon, dommage, mais on ne peut imposer aux joueurs de jouer RP (même si une partie de moi le voudrait héhé).

Je me doute un peu que beaucoup de joueur des larmes ne sont même pas spécialement RP, qu'ils ne cherchent pas à avoir une cohérence complète dans leur comportement. Mais comme je le suis (ou du moins j'essaie...), je fais en sorte d'adapter ma vision de leur comportement pour en faire un truc RP. On ne peut pas obliger à être RP. Alors si on l'est, le meilleur truc à faire c'est de chercher des raisons RP aux comportements des autres.

Last edited by Fyrenor (5 years ago)

---

Ranger éradicateur de kitins

#17 Added by Moniq 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Azazor

Ils soutiennent généralement les factions les plus faibles (d'où pendant un temps les kalamar). Et pour soutenir, il faut combattre. C'est très border line avec les préceptes rangers qui disent bien que combattre des homins doit être une exception. Mais c'est toute la richesse de cette guilde, jouer avec les limites.

Not just that. Supporting one faction over another is also something a Ranger would never do.

#18 Added by Zarden 5 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

{translate}

Azazor translated by Zarden

As this topic is now turning slowly in a trial of Les Larmes, I allow myself to, sliglhtly, defend them.

I don't know what each player from Les Larmes think. But for Azazor, Les Larmes are a group of mercenaries in charge of balancing power between homins. They are generally supporting the weaker faction (hence why the KaLaMar alliance). And to support, you have to fight. It is very border line with the ranger precepts that says that fighting against homins should be an exception. But that's all the richness of this guild, to play with limits...

We could also imagine that being rangers is only a facade to them which is in fact hiding :
- a guild linked to the trytonists, at least for the higher ranked ones. That could explain why they tend to fight more and behave like they do, having to adapt to the current power balance.
- a guild of pure blood mercenaries who mislead the rangers and in this case, that should be denonced to the ranger council. But this should be done in a RP manner. And then it belongs to the council to decide whether or not should be banned from the rangers because of their behavior. If Les Larmes decide to play that game and to defend their RP, let's be it. Otherwise, that's a pity, but we can't force players into RP (even if a part of me would enjoy it, héhé).

I can imagine that most of Les Larmes players are not really involved in RP, they're not trying to always behave according to it. But as I am (or at least I try...), I'm trying to adapt my vision to their behaviour to turn it into something RP. We can't force people to play RP. So if we do, le best thing to do is to try good RP reasons to other's behaviour.

[EN]Thanks Azazor for these words of wisdom, they make perfect sense to me and fits to the principles I try to promote in my guild.

Our path is not easy and many people have a hard time understanding it... but there's little we can do for that, we have learned to live with it!

[FR]Merci Azazor de ces paroles pleines de sagesse, tu touches dans le mille et décrits parfaitement les principes que j'essaye de promouvoir au sein de ma guilde.

Notre route n'est pas simple et peu de gens la comprennent... mais on n'y peux pas grand chose et on a appris à faire avec!

#19 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

I agreed with Azazor on his view about Les Larmes. I would just add: Rangers is also the most suitable faction for them (marauders might work too) in terms of gameplay.

--

On the supernode topic, I don't understand why people are "whinning" about being killed there ... SN are meant for competition, it's in PvP zone etc If you want to dig in peace just go for traditional nodes without your PvP flag ON, you need also protection to avoid patrol and aggro.

#20 Added by Bisugott 5 years ago Report | Quote [de]

{translate}

Sinvaders

On the supernode topic, I don't understand why people are "whinning" about being killed there ... SN are meant for competition, it's in PvP zone etc If you want to dig in peace just go for traditional nodes without your PvP flag ON, you need also protection to avoid patrol and aggro.

100%

---

Bisugott(Atys)

#21 Added by Yennosoul 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Good luck.

#22 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Moniq

Not just that. Supporting one faction over another is also something a Ranger would never do.

There's a difference between supporting a faction and supporting friends. If you could stop worshipping factions long enough to make friends, maybe you'd understand.

I have friends in all factions that I'd fight for. But I fight for them, not the flag they are under. If you cannot make the distinction, that's your failing.

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#23 Added by Moniq 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

((Gidget, most of your comments recall me Waste of time song by Perkele :P))

#24 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Gidget

I have friends in all factions that I'd fight for. But I fight for them, not the flag they are under. If you cannot make the distinction, that's your failing.

Same as me, I have friends in all factions. But I don't fight for them, I fight against the flag they are behind. And it's not because we spent 4h fighting each others at SN, we can't make jokes and discuss a lot in PM.
And all of my friends in the game knows the position of my characters. That doesn't mean I don't like them or whatever, my char doesn't like their chars that's about it.

Others example, I can discuss crafting stuff with friends from others faction but I will never craft anything for them and vice-versa.

#25 Added by Azazor 5 years ago Report | Quote Multilingual

Multilingual | [English] | Français

{translate}

Fighting against friends is all the more plausible since you never really die. Fights like OPs, SNs, etc. are more like a bickering of kids fighting a pillow fight, where you play a play-war. But the real war is mostly a struggle for influence between guilds/peoples/factions, with alliances being made and broken.

Last edited by Maupas (5 years ago) | Reason: Gidget's request

---

Ranger éradicateur de kitins

#26 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

@Moniq - I feel the same way trying to convince you that your personal crusade to turn your self-imposed restrictions (no TPs, Rangers can't hunt bandits...) into server-wide rules would be bad for the long-term health of the game. It's a pity since I know that you can be nice; you simply choose to be a tyrant when it come to people having the audacity to go against your strict interpretation of how lore should be, sometimes without respect for what the lore actually is, and most definitely with blatant disregard for the fact that worlds are dynamic.
The next time you want to beat your chest about how your way is The Only True Ranger Way though, you would do well to remember the meditations Wuaoi gave; on the precept of tolerance, "You are free. Would you not wish that for others?". You wish to take freedom from others. Wuaoi has also explicitly said that Rangers can fight for their guild, and condones hunting bandits ("Killing them is a favour to all civilised Homins in Atys."). Most relevant to this topic, when asked about attacking diggers in Prime Roots, he said "That would not be a matter for the Rangers as an organisation, but a matter for your individual action.".
By your words and actions, you have proven time and again that you are less of a Ranger than anyone I know, even my Marauder acquainatances!

@Sinvaders - Craftsmanship transcends arbitrary lines as it's hard to not respect skill.

@Azazor - At the end of the day, what is Ryzom if not a game? One of my biggest problems here has been how many folks forget what the G in RPG means.

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.