Is asking players meaningless? - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

#1 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en]

I must react on the fail about asking players for their suggestions about fame loss.

On one side you complain about that no one asks players about changes and that you are forced to accept it after it is done.

On the other side, most of reactions were off topic and mostly nothing useful was the output. Now it is closed and no one will ask you anything. Are you happy now?

@Revvy + @Agan
I am the original author of the text, Tamarea just did modifications and posted on forum. It was my initiative to ask players instead just make decision internally and tell them how it will be afterwards. Also because NO ONE OF YOU DID. And more, this is not just about marauders. The post describes how will be the situation hotfixed now, however we wanted to ask players about their opinions or suggestions. If you try to show me it is pointless, you do your job well.

Yes I am involved in many projects and initiatives, because no one else wants. Do you really think I have fun writing documents or study management crap? "Everyone" just complain and cry or attack others. You and some others can't simply even imagine that my personal preferences has nothing to do with the work I am doing for the project and that it is something completely different than my professional responsibility. Yes, no one is perfect, including me. That's why it is even more important to ask as many players as possible.

It looks to me that you only sit closed inside your marauder project with your self-pity and barely get involved in any other activity, especially about running the project itself. Or maybe you are hidden behind other nicknames so no one knows who you really are. And I guess no one of you ever came with a suggestion how to improve the project processes or just with a simple question to others: how can we do it better?

I can only hope that I am wrong.

#2 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

Care MoniQ, because you are talking to Marauder's here.

In big, it mean you are talking with people that was asked their opinion privately and publicly for YEARS.
We made post, we made pad, we made decision, we voted, we made event, we made script and project template, we waited and we still wait.
So really do care on this subject.

Don't do us a Cerulean proudly saying: "If you do not have faction, it is because you aren't involved ah-ah!".
Bullshit this is, not to mention laughable since most of the marauder's involved in the team did leave because of real non support.

My reaction to this joke is purely triggered at the discussion between a Dev and a Lorist.
I shall remember you once again, that stuff is well-known and work was done in background FOR YEARS.
The fact that no one pushed the previous idea and work done before, as an example or guidance for the OP is shameful.

The links are useful, maybe not for you; but for the Dev and people managing the Marauder project.
Most of the Ryzom team members are not even aware of the project detail.
And it is certainly not clients (10€ per month) fault.

You as a person, hidden author of the subject or not, has nothing to do with this.
So continue give your idea, fine with me.

Again, it could have been different if the original post would have contained idea discussed for years and matured.
Waiting for approval AND (here you enter in the game): players approval.
But that wasn't the case.

(PS: In advance, if you censure me Mister Tykus, Im gonna post it again and again and again. So you better close the topic.)

---

Spoiler

#3 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

I'm afraid it kind of is. The people who frequent these forums are hardly an accurate representation of the playerbase. I can count regular posters on my fingers. The only way to fix this would likely be encouraging people in game to participate on the forums, but I don't know whether that would even work, as the atmosphere around here is incredibly hostile (as I'm sure we're all aware). Most just want to enjoy their game in peace and don't care for arguing on the forums.

That being said, while I understand why you made this thread (and I wholeheartedly agree that both Revvy and Agan were out of line), I don't think it's helping the situation much. Complaining about people who complain doesn't solve anything.

---

Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#4 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

Luminatrix

I'm afraid it kind of is. The people who frequent these forums are hardly an accurate representation of the playerbase. I can count regular posters on my fingers. The only way to fix this would likely be encouraging people in game to participate on the forums, but I don't know whether that would even work, as the atmosphere around here is incredibly hostile (as I'm sure we're all aware). Most just want to enjoy their game in peace and don't care for arguing on the forums.

That being said, while I understand why you made this thread (and I wholeheartedly agree that both Revvy and Agan were out of line), I don't think it's helping the situation much. Complaining about people who complain doesn't solve anything.

We used to have a lot of debate and discussion around Ryzom every days on Ryzomforge IRC channel.
Then it was moved in-game on /channel Ryzomforge.

Players are just not interested even in game, notice when we do a call about a marauder subject in the ryzom forge meeting, the silence fall.
Talk about a wheel, and everyone start to talk again ;)

---

Spoiler

#5 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

Luminatrix

I'm afraid it kind of is. The people who frequent these forums are hardly an accurate representation of the playerbase.

That's why I take a lot of polls here with a huge grain of salt, and give a nasty side-eye to anyone claiming, "This is what players want! They want to play the same way I do, with mandatory RP, no TPs, and mechanics that punish any play style different than mine!". The Ryzom presented on these forums is often the polar opposite of the Ryzom I play at hours most of Europe is asleep.

Luminatrix

I can count regular posters on my fingers. The only way to fix this would likely be encouraging people in game to participate on the forums, but I don't know whether that would even work, as the atmosphere around here is incredibly hostile (as I'm sure we're all aware). Most just want to enjoy their game in peace and don't care for arguing on the forums.

I don't think that would work. My experience is that many who play Ryzom for long enough have any feedback are here long enough to know how toxic these forums often get. And time zones also inhibit diversity of views in any realtime manner (Forge meetings, IRC chats, IG dynamic channels...). Seriously, how active are the dev team folks and CSRs around 03 UTC anyways? Simply put, even those who want to interact are limited in their ability to do so, but there is a strong enough incentive for them to not get involved that it's moot.

Luminatrix

That being said, while I understand why you made this thread (and I wholeheartedly agree that both Revvy and Agan were out of line), I don't think it's helping the situation much. Complaining about people who complain doesn't solve anything.

I understand insofar as I acknowledge that Moniq is human and therefore susceptible to frustration. However, complaining about those who complain is a large part of why there is less diversity on these forums than on the actual server at large. In fact, I feel the mere existence of this thread is a great example of why so many folks actively avoid any and all interaction with these forums.

Revvy

In big, it mean you are talking with people that was asked their opinion privately and publicly for YEARS.
We made post, we made pad, we made decision, we voted, we made event, we made script and project template, we waited and we still wait.
So really do care on this subject.

It does not matter how much you care, or whether you try to contribute. All that matters is whether you please those who stubbornly refuse to accept even the slightest responsibility for causing enough unrest to make civil discourse impossible, whose mere presence is enough to initiate hostilities. They want their game even if it means losing folks like... well, everyone who is not them. Of course, you know that they will try to blame you and I for the damage they cause ;)

Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#6 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

Hi, so yeah that was pretty bad... I believe I've already stated in another thread somewhere that if marauders were promised something by a WG employee or other authorized representative they should receive an official apology- but that does not even remotely justify the rudeness of the now locked thread.

Anyways, on the topic of that thread- I think there was an idea out there for a restitution rite/series of missions to help exmarauders rejoin civilization.

P.S. that post asked about players wanting to become marauders and players wanting to leave the Mara faction, that is why it was not a Mara only thread.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Placio (6 years ago)

#7 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

It doesn't really matter if you are marauders or not. If you have an idea or opinion that you think is worth talking about, just raise your point.
The real issue here (and that is not a big surprise at all) is (as Revvy said it): a working group about marauder gameplay (devs+lorist+graphist+marauders players) has been created years ago and a lot of discussion used to happen. Documents have been creates+poll+players opinoon asked multiples times. And now we are here, with a post not taking into account all of this work. Maybe we just have wasted our time, who knows?

And @Moniq, months ago I have raised few points/concerns about project organisation and so on (and putting couples of ideas on the table too)... I have been told the following: my opinion doesn't matter since I am not a professional video game developper. So if you want people to get involved more maybe it's also the time for some people to stop answering like this to others too.

#8 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en]

{translate}

Sinvaders

Maybe we just have wasted our time, who knows?

Just don't give up.

Sinvaders

And @Moniq, months ago I have raised few points/concerns about project organisation and so on (and putting couples of ideas on the table too)... I have been told the following: my opinion doesn't matter since I am not a professional video game developper. So if you want people to get involved more maybe it's also the time for some people to stop answering like this to others too.

Yes I have experienced something similar myself.

#9 Added by Heli 5 years ago [en]

{translate}

discussion terminée / completed discussion

This topic is locked