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#30 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Like said, I haven't ever really done the lakes run but for my civ points missions catalogue post and can fully agree its dreadful with all the swimming. The others however are incredibly fast to do once you know where the camps are and you have a mild sense of stealth (to sneak through aggro).

I don't understand your train of thought when you say working for a civilisation in order to gain civilisation points is going against RP/lore. It makes perfect sense to me, that if I work for matis, i get paid by matis, in this case with matis points.

Also, you don't have to swap back to karavan, since cult has no impact on civ point rewards from package runs and the respective prospector missions. And you don't even have to change your allegiance, since even at non-alligned states, rewards are decent (2255 points for running and 990 points for the highest prospector mission, which you can retake over and over and over and over, til you get tired of having easy points). Of course, if you want to be more effective at it, you "mechanically optimise" (allign) and get slightly more than twice rewards for the same effort. I fail to see how this encourages alt play?

If you are Ranger/Neutral you can still do these missions. In fact, if you have a points fever, you can do even an extra run/missions set compared to alligned toons who have one civilisation maxed to 0 fame, hence no possibility of doing it. Sadly, there is no way for marauders at the moment, but the great majority of people (at least judging based on forum posts) complaining about it isn't us.

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Bisugott(Atys)


#31 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
Sure, I could earn much more if I decided to just min/max with zero regard for lore/RP, swap back to Karavan, and become a Matis Vassal.

Suddenly playing according to lore/RP became important? Let me laugh :-)

#32 Added by Placio 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Victoriacamper
Gidget
Sure, I could earn much more if I decided to just min/max with zero regard for lore/RP, swap back to Karavan, and become a Matis Vassal.

Suddenly playing according to lore/RP became important? Let me laugh :-)

Can we please avoid turning an official post into a rp vs occ or Ranger vs Mara mudslinging fest?

If you have suggestions that may improve the situation that’s what we really need to present. In the case of the nation package runs and mission mat harvesting, should they only reward an increased amount of base faction points? We have plenty of ways to get dappers now, but few to get faction points.

#33 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Thats the point Plac, the current ways to make civilisation points seem more than enough. Other than the newly inability to use level 1 alts to produce them, i haven't read one argument to increase them. Why do we need an increase in points when people can dig all day and get 10k points at a time? Just for digging, just for having 1/4 surface dig skills at 200. I sadly don't have data on NH V.1 rewards, but it seems the TotC and dig missions are mines that people simply refuse to use because they're not available for level 1 alts (arguably, cause with some patience even a level 1 on a mount can do the tour).

Anyway, never meant for this to turn into a "mudlinging fest" as you say now. All I intended was to show there are ways to produce really large amounts of civ points for non-marauder people. Not sure when that turned into a "Ranger vs Mara mudslinging fest".

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Aleeskandaro (5 years ago)

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Bisugott(Atys)


#34 Added by Placio 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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You weren’t quoted for my mudslinging example Alees :)

I suspect that no CD on a nation mission is probably a bug- I will test and report when I get home. The whole point of the patch was to reduce repetition and while we could do the same mission over and over, most don’t have the time for that.

Last edited by Placio (5 years ago)

#35 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Still, at 2520 points for a single mission wich requires only 360mats, what takes about 20mins of precious dig time (if you know where to dig and you are a fairly travelled toon with Tps), i stand up to what I said and hold that people can even after patch make tons of points if they so want it, provided they are not marauder.

The point about no cooldowns was addressing this:
Gidget
 add Marauder and Ranger/Neutral missions that give the same points as the racial ones to those of their respective nationalities... It might give us Rangers more incentive to visit Almati more often!

When you test the missions, you'll notice a non alligned toon earns 990 points for the highest mission compared to 2520 for an alligned toon. Rangers can do this, and since there is no cooldown/limit, they can to it as much as they want to get the same points (or way more) for a little extra effort.

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I just asumed I was your target since you spoke of mara vs. ranger and afaik Victoria nor Gidget are maras x)

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Bisugott(Atys)


#36 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Also, how much points did people get using NH V.1?

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Bisugott(Atys)


#37 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Aleeskandaro
Still, at 2520 points for a single mission wich requires only 360mats...
One of my alts can get that; I can't.

Aleeskandaro
When you test the missions, you'll notice a non alligned toon earns 990 points for the highest mission compared to 2520 for an alligned toon. Rangers can do this, and since there is no cooldown/limit, they can to it as much as they want to get the same points (or way more) for a little extra effort.
I could get an RL job for minimum wage too, but I'd rather have one that earns enough to pay rent. As for "a little extra effort", I think the mismatch in rewards defies any reasonable definition of "a little extra". I'd rather not work ~135-140 hrs/wk for the same paycheck I get now, but that's pretty much what is being asked of Rangers.

As I said, folks are punished for not being aligned, there's strong incentive to use alts, and neither are good things.

Regarding a couple of your other points, I never said working for a civilization went against RP, only that those who feel the mechanics force them to play a character they don't want to play are unlikely to be into RP. Also, while cult alignment/fame does not affect race points rewards, Rangers have enough problems not related to those missions that, again, the mechanics give strong incentive to forgo RP.

Last edited by Gidget (5 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#38 Added by Jagerloa 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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delete

Last edited by Jagerloa (5 years ago)

#39 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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While I agree there is some room for adjustment, there are currently ways to produce points which are available for everyone except for marauders.

Now, if you bring RL into comparison, there are more factors of RL which play a role when it comes to wage, while in RL you would study or aquire further competencies for a better Job, these could be homologued to fame or alignments in game, so, if we want to compare to RL, it makes sense that not everyone gets the exact same rewards.

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Bisugott(Atys)


#40 Added by Gidget 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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I think Marauders also deserve more opportunities.

As for the other, while you're correct that there are other factors, I feel that those of equal qualifications (represented ingame by skill levels) should have comparable compensation for the same work/effort. As it stands, that's not the case; citizenship is rewarded more than any other qualification. Why are my mastered skills worth less than my alt's?

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#41 Added by Luminatrix 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
I think Marauders also deserve more opportunities.


I seriously hope we do, eventually. Maybe when the marauder city gets implemented. It's beyond annoying to me that, if I need sap crystals, I either have to train an alt's digging to at least 200 (which, let's face it, takes a lot of time even if I find someone to CP for) or I have to do the delivery run, also on an alt.

Speaking of marauders not being able to do a lot of things, I have no idea why hawkers refuse to trade with us. Why do they care about fames? Aren't they independent traders?

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#42 Added by Placio 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Ok, so there is no cooldown for the nation prospector. But there is no way I would do that more than once per day (or year?). Digging mission mats over q200 is a giant pain- not having region and material specialization :( About 60 minutes of effort (and exploding a few times) for essentially 250 sap crystals. But I guess I won't use those all in a day... but I don't really need the 60k dappers they gave, if I'm doing a mission for faction points it would be nice to just havemove points as dappers can be had easily.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Placio (5 years ago)

#43 Added by Revvy 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Luminatrix
Speaking of marauders not being able to do a lot of things, I have no idea why hawkers refuse to trade with us. Why do they care about fames? Aren't they independent traders?

This we did report more than a year ago, a workaround was in test and then no words about it since then :p

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Ranger should not get the same nation's points as citizen since it is a faction, like Mara they should earn their own part of the bread.

Btw what about dyn events? Aren't enough to get crystal?

From what I see here from an external pov, NH doesn't provide nation's points anymore so farming alts are rendered useless.
People complain for x and y reasons.
Aleeskandaro provide you a good way to earn even more points.
People keep complaining for x or y reasons that are not really valuable...

C'mon :p

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Spoiler

#44 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Placio
Digging mission mats over q200 is a giant pain ... About 60 minutes of effort (and exploding a few times) for essentially 250 sap crystals...

C'mon Plac x) theres no way on Atys digging 360 mats (highest mission) takes 60 min, even without the material/land spec. Once you know the spot (people can use bmsite.net for this) its just a matter of getting there and drawing your pick out a few minutes, 10ish raw material sources should suffice for the 120 mats you need of each type {for the max mission, the others require ridiculously low quantities of mission mats}.



How many points/crystals did people get before patch for every NH delivery? I have asked here and everywhere and noone seems to even know...

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Bisugott(Atys)


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