OFFICIAL NEWS

@Aleeskandaro - I'll have to time my next run, but I can say anecdotally that a Lakes run is usually about the only thing I can do in a night. Lakes has a lot of dismounting and going through portals, and (of course) a lot of swimming. There is one leg where I have been known to just hit Autorun and go AFK for long enough that it's ridiculous. But most nights, I feel my time is better spent doing something more rewarding than trading a few bales of forage for a pitifully small handful of points. And that is the real issue

Sure, I could earn much more if I decided to just min/max with zero regard for lore/RP, swap back to Karavan, and become a Matis Vassal. That alone means that the system truly is set up such that one is better off having their lowbie alt do the run for them. The same is true of the Prospector missions too; if you are Ranger/Neutral, then you're better off having your alt dig, and if you're Mara you have to use an alt. I feel that that is a bad mechanic unless it's specifically designed to force one to be a nationalist, in which case it's a horrid mechanic. Do we want to reward those who bring their character to life, or merely those who play a character that is mechanically optimal? IMO, the mechanics should reward the RP-er more than the min/max-er, but what do I know? :)

One possible solution I can see is pretty simple; add Marauder and Ranger/Neutral missions that give the same points as the racial ones to those of their respective nationalities, as well as matching merchants in their respective camps. It might give us Rangers more incentive to visit Almati more often!

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@Revvy - It's not personal, but most who share the views I post here do not come to these forums or even have Uni chat on because they don't feel like dealing with precisely the sort of smugly arrogant and disrespectfully dismissive attitude that you just displayed yet again. Simply put, I don't like seeing good players driven off or server population declining because they feel the game punishes them for playing like they actually have some freedom. I've seen too much of that already, and I would rather try to get the problem fixed than just cancel my sub and uninstall, no matter how much you want me to do exactly that and leave you to your lore-on-rails MOBA.

This patch did some damage as some feel it does punish them for daring to be something other than a K/K Patriot/Vassal/Citizen/Initiate. But even if the devs balance the fame/dapper rewards and CD timers in a revision of this patch, a major problem that this patch spotlighted will remain as it has multiple causes. I want the problem solved. If solving the problem means addressing those other causes then I really don't care if you think it irrelevant or not; it's still the same problem.

Maybe you will learn to not be one of those causes... or not.

Like said, I haven't ever really done the lakes run but for my civ points missions catalogue post and can fully agree its dreadful with all the swimming. The others however are incredibly fast to do once you know where the camps are and you have a mild sense of stealth (to sneak through aggro).

I don't understand your train of thought when you say working for a civilisation in order to gain civilisation points is going against RP/lore. It makes perfect sense to me, that if I work for matis, i get paid by matis, in this case with matis points.

Also, you don't have to swap back to karavan, since cult has no impact on civ point rewards from package runs and the respective prospector missions. And you don't even have to change your allegiance, since even at non-alligned states, rewards are decent (2255 points for running and 990 points for the highest prospector mission, which you can retake over and over and over and over, til you get tired of having easy points). Of course, if you want to be more effective at it, you "mechanically optimise" (allign) and get slightly more than twice rewards for the same effort. I fail to see how this encourages alt play?

If you are Ranger/Neutral you can still do these missions. In fact, if you have a points fever, you can do even an extra run/missions set compared to alligned toons who have one civilisation maxed to 0 fame, hence no possibility of doing it. Sadly, there is no way for marauders at the moment, but the great majority of people (at least judging based on forum posts) complaining about it isn't us.

Suddenly playing according to lore/RP became important? Let me laugh :-)

Can we please avoid turning an official post into a rp vs occ or Ranger vs Mara mudslinging fest?

If you have suggestions that may improve the situation that’s what we really need to present. In the case of the nation package runs and mission mat harvesting, should they only reward an increased amount of base faction points? We have plenty of ways to get dappers now, but few to get faction points.

Thats the point Plac, the current ways to make civilisation points seem more than enough. Other than the newly inability to use level 1 alts to produce them, i haven't read one argument to increase them. Why do we need an increase in points when people can dig all day and get 10k points at a time? Just for digging, just for having 1/4 surface dig skills at 200. I sadly don't have data on NH V.1 rewards, but it seems the TotC and dig missions are mines that people simply refuse to use because they're not available for level 1 alts (arguably, cause with some patience even a level 1 on a mount can do the tour).

Anyway, never meant for this to turn into a "mudlinging fest" as you say now. All I intended was to show there are ways to produce really large amounts of civ points for non-marauder people. Not sure when that turned into a "Ranger vs Mara mudslinging fest".

You weren’t quoted for my mudslinging example Alees :)

I suspect that no CD on a nation mission is probably a bug- I will test and report when I get home. The whole point of the patch was to reduce repetition and while we could do the same mission over and over, most don’t have the time for that.

Still, at 2520 points for a single mission wich requires only 360mats, what takes about 20mins of precious dig time (if you know where to dig and you are a fairly travelled toon with Tps), i stand up to what I said and hold that people can even after patch make tons of points if they so want it, provided they are not marauder.

The point about no cooldowns was addressing this:
When you test the missions, you'll notice a non alligned toon earns 990 points for the highest mission compared to 2520 for an alligned toon. Rangers can do this, and since there is no cooldown/limit, they can to it as much as they want to get the same points (or way more) for a little extra effort.

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I just asumed I was your target since you spoke of mara vs. ranger and afaik Victoria nor Gidget are maras x)

Also, how much points did people get using NH V.1?

One of my alts can get that; I can't.

I could get an RL job for minimum wage too, but I'd rather have one that earns enough to pay rent. As for "a little extra effort", I think the mismatch in rewards defies any reasonable definition of "a little extra". I'd rather not work ~135-140 hrs/wk for the same paycheck I get now, but that's pretty much what is being asked of Rangers.

As I said, folks are punished for not being aligned, there's strong incentive to use alts, and neither are good things.

Regarding a couple of your other points, I never said working for a civilization went against RP, only that those who feel the mechanics force them to play a character they don't want to play are unlikely to be into RP. Also, while cult alignment/fame does not affect race points rewards, Rangers have enough problems not related to those missions that, again, the mechanics give strong incentive to forgo RP.

delete

While I agree there is some room for adjustment, there are currently ways to produce points which are available for everyone except for marauders.

Now, if you bring RL into comparison, there are more factors of RL which play a role when it comes to wage, while in RL you would study or aquire further competencies for a better Job, these could be homologued to fame or alignments in game, so, if we want to compare to RL, it makes sense that not everyone gets the exact same rewards.

I think Marauders also deserve more opportunities.

As for the other, while you're correct that there are other factors, I feel that those of equal qualifications (represented ingame by skill levels) should have comparable compensation for the same work/effort. As it stands, that's not the case; citizenship is rewarded more than any other qualification. Why are my mastered skills worth less than my alt's?

I seriously hope we do, eventually. Maybe when the marauder city gets implemented. It's beyond annoying to me that, if I need sap crystals, I either have to train an alt's digging to at least 200 (which, let's face it, takes a lot of time even if I find someone to CP for) or I have to do the delivery run, also on an alt.

Speaking of marauders not being able to do a lot of things, I have no idea why hawkers refuse to trade with us. Why do they care about fames? Aren't they independent traders?

Ok, so there is no cooldown for the nation prospector. But there is no way I would do that more than once per day (or year?). Digging mission mats over q200 is a giant pain- not having region and material specialization :( About 60 minutes of effort (and exploding a few times) for essentially 250 sap crystals. But I guess I won't use those all in a day... but I don't really need the 60k dappers they gave, if I'm doing a mission for faction points it would be nice to just havemove points as dappers can be had easily.

This we did report more than a year ago, a workaround was in test and then no words about it since then :p

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Ranger should not get the same nation's points as citizen since it is a faction, like Mara they should earn their own part of the bread.

Btw what about dyn events? Aren't enough to get crystal?

From what I see here from an external pov, NH doesn't provide nation's points anymore so farming alts are rendered useless.
People complain for x and y reasons.
Aleeskandaro provide you a good way to earn even more points.
People keep complaining for x or y reasons that are not really valuable...

C'mon :p