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#20 Added by Bastien 6 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Pour information, je confirme. Je connais plusieurs joueurs free qui perdent en confort de jeu avec la diminution des gains en dapper/renommée en réalisant les métiers élémentaires.

Pourquoi ne pas se limiter a une division plus raisonnable ? Le temps que les missions classiques rapportent plus de dapper et de renommée.


Pour le portage des colis en monture pour les camps de surveillance kitins, là aussi, c'est impossible pour les joueurs free ou petits levels.

Nous l'avons testé hier, notre cobaye free est mort deux fois (plage d’abondance et ile enchanté), et la deuxième fois a était fatal pour sa monture.

Pourquoi ne pas, comme cela a était le cas avant la fusion des serveurs, enlever le poids des colis pour faire les tournées sans montures.

Un joueur free ou petit level, accompagner par des hauts level, peut être protégé sans problème à pied, ce qui n’est pas le cas en monture.

Après tous, les colis lourds étaient justifiés lors de la construction des camps, maintenant pour assurer leurs ravitaillements, des colis plus légers sont suffisants

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Bastien (6 years ago)

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#21 Added by Gidget 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Zarden
About the fame : if you are from any faction but ranger, that's not a big change for you, it will just be a few days longer for new players to reach their citizenship. Which they don't really need anyway, it doesn't keep them from joining a guild or getting access to any game content.

For Rangers, this mean that to reach 30 in every fame so you can become a "ranger aspirant" you will have to do HUNDREDS of missions. That's days of playing, especially for a low level player. Today it already take at least two week to a new player to raise their Kami and Karavan fame; raising Fyros, Matis, Tryker and Zoraï fame could be done in parallel through the New Horizon. Now these new players will need 6 weeks to do that, and an extra 6 weeks to reach 50 in fame for prime roots magnetic path.

That's no game content; that's boring grinding that will just keep new players away from Ranger faction. Should I close my guild now?

I saw that you plan to increase the fame given by missions. Please keep in mind all the fame grinding that new rangers have to do at a time where they have lot of skills to grind and many more interesting things to learn. It should not take 3 month to become a ranger...
With NH travel no longer being free for those of us with high race fames depriving Rangers of that benefit, there truly does need to be something to make Rangerhood worth the grind. Sure, I have heard some argue that Rangers are overpowered because they have all of the "benefits" of Neutral along with (limited) access to teleportation to PR/250 zones, a benefit some feel should not be allowed to those that do not choose sides in the battle between Ma'Duk and Jena, but I feel that we should take this chance to break the binary paradigm and have Hominists (Rangers and Marauders) not only be given equal benefits, but maybe a bit more to compensate for the longer fame grind.
Zarden
Second thing, the faction points. Their main use for me and my guildies is to buy sap cristals...

Before this patch, as a ranger, I already got only 1/4 of the faction points a citizen of any nation can get. Like many rangers and mara players I made a citizen alt to do this for me because I don't need x4 boring grinding to get the cristals that I need.

To get these faction points, I use the florist occupation.... This take 10-15mn depending how full the New Horizon was. That used to give 7200 faction points that can be converted in approximately 700 Q500 sap cristals.

Now well... this is not an option anymore... The only options that are left for me are PvP to get PvP points that I can trade for crystals, but I will need more people to get involved in PvP for that to work. Second option are these time consuming packer missions that will just give me a few hundreds of faction point and that I can only do every 5 hours...
For many of us, that boils down to about 2 days per run. Maybe we can get a full run in if we do NOTHING else. As for PvP... well, that's not really a Ranger thing. Ask Moniq about Rangers and PvP ;)

Now, I'm sure that those who don't have to work 45+ hours a week just to live indoors might not see the problem, but those of us who come to Atys to get away from the grind inherent in being an adult don't have the time or inclination to deal with that. Ryzom is a game, not a job. If Ryzom becomes a job, people will leave and find a game that is more game-like. The server population is rather small already. Is reducing server population further the desired goal here?
Zarden
If nothing is done, people will just create alts from the opposite faction and chain kill them to get PvP points that they can trade for cristals...
Well, folks wanted more PvP; maybe they should've been more specific. Also, they should've accounted for server population and how it is not a constant throughout the day. Of course, that all assumes people will make alts instead of assuming it's too much bother.
Zarden
What I would recommand to solve this is either to make cristals available in a regular shop... or to enable players to craft them like it was possible few years ago. Maybe with a dapper counterpart? Best option would still be that the New Horizon give dappers and faction points, but no fame if that's really the path you want to follow...
Like many, I've always done occupations for points, overseer crafting missions for dappers (they pay better than occupations), and MOBA/FPS games (which do PvP better) in the rare case I want PvP. In fact, one of the reason I chose Ranger was specifically because PvP is not as mandatory as it has practically become due to this patch. I came here to do the sandbox RPG thing, and was disappointed to find that my style of RP is not considered valid. And now this patch makes Ryzom a poor-homin's MOBA? I have to agree that one way to counter that would be to restore NH's point-gain if for no reason other than to allow Rangers a way to get points without spending more time than we have or breaking lore.

* * * * *

The real tragedy here is that what I've heard from pre-Merge players on servers other than Aniro indicates that Ryzom has always had a huge divide that must be bridged in order for a unified server (Atys) to prosper. But it appears that Ryzom has chosen to become Aniro v2.0 instead of a unified server. That may not be (and likely was not) the intent, but perception matters, and any misperception requires damage control. It's a difficult balancing act, and I don't envy those that have to tread the fine path between the opposing sides, but I feel I would be dishonest if I did not say that I have heard from a few players who feel they have been run off from these forums that this patch is borderline offensive in it's lack of balance and apparent preferential treatment. While some (myself included) are willing to give some benefit of a doubt, not all are as tolerant and those who are still have limits that this patch has come dangerously close to.

One does not need to be malicious to do damage, and I fear that this patch has caused more damage than just the normal discontent that is inherent in any change and the elephant in the room will trample us all if this is not handled delicately.

Last edited by Gidget (6 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#22 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
but I feel that we should take this chance to break the binary paradigm and have Hominists (Rangers and Marauders) not only be given equal benefits, but maybe a bit more to compensate for the longer fame grind.

I totally agree with you on this. People are complaining because marauders have an advantage in term of TP in PR (we have more TPs in PR (sometimes 2 per zones + middle point). For me it's fair for us to have it ... if we compare to all disavantages you have in this faction (you can't to occupation, no NH, no theoric access to the main cities etc).


For the alts discussion, peoples are already creating alts for whatever purpose they want... nothing new here (the poor population is a direct cause for players to make alts). Hopefully not everyone is doing it.


--

I will not talk about sap cristals, because the situation is ridiculous (without alts, the only way to gain sap cristals in marauders faction ... is .... well PvP ... and it looks like they want to make sap cristals being link to PvP for everyone or something ... while sap cristals are not only use for PvP matters).

#23 Added by Revvy 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Gidget
With NH travel no longer being free for those of us with high race fames depriving Rangers of that benefit, there truly does need to be something to make Rangerhood worth the grind. Sure, I have heard some argue that Rangers are overpowered because they have all of the "benefits" of Neutral along with (limited) access to teleportation to PR/250 zones, a benefit some feel should not be allowed to those that do not choose sides in the battle between Ma'Duk and Jena, but I feel that we should take this chance to break the binary paradigm and have Hominists (Rangers and Marauders) not only be given equal benefits, but maybe a bit more to compensate for the longer fame grind.
Yes, or give special advantage to each side.
It allow choice that fit your style while attracting players to it.
Ranger could have a real importance in the fight against kittins (which can even drive other factions into it).

Actually there is 4 "sides", the common idea is to balance them all to be the same.
Which is obviously wrong for thousand reasons.
So if they give advantage and disadvantage to each with the goal to serve a constructed gameplay, im all in for it :)

Gidget
The real tragedy here is that what I've heard from pre-Merge players on servers other than Aniro indicates that Ryzom has always had a huge divide that must be bridged in order for a unified server (Atys) to prosper. But it appears that Ryzom has chosen to become Aniro v2.0 instead of a unified server
You are so traumatized by this lol

From external point of view you really seem like a rager, keep cool and change your tune a bit.

This is like the battle of your life :)

Do you at least realize, every comment or topic you create is about this pointless subject ?
And even when the initial subject doesn't have anything to do with this.

Not criticizing you, but i think this is your tragedy.

Not to mention in the case the subject do not match your little personal battle, when you bring it back on the table it is disrespectful for the one you do answer to (or the creator of the thread).

You still didn't answer Moniq btw, too focused to fight a non-existent battle, blinded by your own argumentation's.

Anyway, Gidget... gidget..

Sinvaders
I totally agree with you on this. People are complaining because marauders have an advantage in term of TP in PR (we have more TPs in PR (sometimes 2 per zones + middle point). For me it's fair for us to have it ... if we compare to all disavantages you have in this faction (you can't to occupation, no NH, no theoric access to the main cities etc).
And when Marauder faction will raise (finished gameplay, lets dream).
Most people will complain about the balance.
And with some reasons :)

Last edited by Revvy (6 years ago)

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Spoiler

#24 Added by Zagh 6 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Un patch c'est cool mais quand une refonte d'un système qui existe est effectué, il faut la calculer judicieusement.

La citoyenneté n'apportait pas grand chose sur un plan gameplay à part une réduction légère de prix chez les marchands et pour être honnête, le seul marchand qui se fait des dappers c'est le palefrenier (et peut-être le vendeur d'outils). Les items des autres marchands, citoyens ou pas, ne sont jamais acheté tant leur qualité est médiocre.

Cependant la citoyenneté au maximum permettait d'avoir un avantage chez NH.
1. Ne plus payer les TP NH de sa citoyenneté.
2. Avoir le maximum de dappers et de point de nation via NH (je me trompe peut être parce que ça fait très longtemps que je suis à 100 de fame matis).

Ce patch nous prend pour des neutres. Déjà qu'il n'y avait quasi rien comme avantage gameplay à être citoyen, le peu qu'on avait nous a été retiré.

Et comme le signale Eleanide, le nouveau NH contient des bugs.

Les métiers étaient quelque chose de vraiment nouveau sur Ryzom quand ils sont apparus. Aux alentours de la fusion certains d'entre eux ont tout simplement été retirés car ils n'étaient pas "lore-friendly". Et maintenant les métiers restant deviennent carrément inutiles. Autant les supprimer complètement.

Vous avez peut être prévu des solutions pour compenser cette refonte... et si c'est le cas il fallait qu'elles soient appliquées dans le même patch.

Visiblement ça rend les joueurs "neutres" encore plus en galère dans leur gameplay. Et ça ampute une partie des avantages gameplay d'être citoyens d'une nation pour que tout le monde ait la même chose.

Si je suis citoyen et que j'ai bossé mes fame c'est pas pour avoir aussi peu de reconnaissance auprès des PNJ qu'en étant neutre.

Donc, non, non et non. Je n'apprécie vraiment pas cette refonte. Elle est très mal pensée.

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Vauban

#25 Added by Tamarea 6 years ago Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
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Hello,

We take note of all your feedback and consider the necessary adjustments.

In parallel, the devs are working on a patch patch, for :
- fix the issue of the zig disappearing after entering an apartment, hall or guild island, as well as other bugs being analyzed;
- increase the rewards in fame and dappers of all nation missions.

Last edited by Tamarea (6 years ago)

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)
tamarea@ryzom.com

#26 Added by Loved 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Thank you Tamarea,

Most of us are fully aware that feedback is read and though many are upset, I'm sure most of it is not actually directed AT the team. 

However, removing all the faction points, and all the fame, before... before the next patch that will add more dappers and fame.. is leaving some people understandably upset.

I can't speak for anyone but I do ask for understanding for them.

That said, there is no mention of FACTION points being added to anything.
Losing 7200 faction points per day (at 100 fame) and a respectable amount, at 50 fame, is a large hit.

I'm certain the team knows this.

Also the patch notes purposely left out the nerf of dappers, fame, and faction points. It's not transparent. Even if the forum post mentioned it lightly. Not being transparent, and not giving warning, makes it look like an admission of guilt* .

I'm just being an honest homin. If it wasn't intended to be left out or purposely hidden, then I'm sorry I suggested it.  

Once again, I see no mention of addition of faction points. Many are waiting on news about this.

Thank you for your consideration
Loved
Tamarea
Hello,

We take note of all your feedback and consider the necessary adjustments.

In parallel, the devs are working on a patch patch, for :
- fix the issue of the zig disappearing after entering an apartment, hall or guild island, as well as other bugs being analyzed;
- increase the rewards in fame and dappers of all nation missions.

Last edited by Loved (6 years ago) | Reason: typo guild-->guilt

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#27 Added by Gidget 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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@Sinvaders - I also think the lore supports Marauders earning more PvP points as a rewards for RP. Given the mechanics disadvantages Maras suffer from, I think that it would be balanced too. I mean, they're already tweaking rewards as a result of this patch so why not? That still leaves Rangers in need of some work, but it's a start.
* * * * *
@Revvy - A major patch such as this is a sign of which direction the game is headed. To say that concerns over which direction the game is headed is irrelevant to a discussion about which direction the game is heading, and calling them (and I quote), "pointless subject" is disrespectful. It's not exactly personal either. I speak for others who do not bother to come here because long-term repeated disrespect has led them to believe it is not worth speaking for themselves only to be disregarded and/or further insulted. I want their voices to be beard as well, not just my own.

Once I feel that the game is headed in a direction that takes into all viewpoints into account, both mechanically and as a community, I'll be a lot calmer. It doesn't necessarily have to go the way I want, but if it doesn't then I would like to at least feel like I'm getting some respect. If I seem like a rager to you then you should ask yourself how much I've been ignored and insulted to amass so much rage ;)
*****
@Loved - I concur that the loss of points for NH leaving a tedious mission with rewards that would be considered meager even if took one-third as long as it actually does as the only way to get points is a big hit, and doing so without warning is likely to earn a lot of ire for a multitude of reasons. Maybe if package runs actually gave enough points to be worth doing.....

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#28 Added by Bitttymacod 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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OK -- How does one earn Faction Points under the new system? Fame and dappers can be had from the Corporal missions, but what about Faction Points?

The only thing I use them for is recharge of enchantments, but during a Boss fight, they can be crucial to success.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#29 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Bitttymacod
OK -- How does one earn Faction Points under the new system? Fame and dappers can be had from the Corporal missions, but what about Faction Points?

The only thing I use them for is recharge of enchantments, but during a Boss fight, they can be crucial to success.

Package delivery quests and PvP. The first of which takes at least an hour for not that many points and the latter of which is hard to do on a level that can sustain you with crystals, unless you make an alt of the opposite faction, train it up to max level and then farm it for points.

I personally love that the NH finally doesn't have a maximum on products so we don't have to ride it a million times to hand in, but the cost at which these changes were made, that I can't agree with. Though I'm mostly upset about the way and the reasoning behind it.

As for reasoning, the only thing I see from the community has been veteran players complaining that the game is "too easy". For old timers who are multimasters and have millions of dappers in their pockets, maybe. But for newbies? Not a chance. The change is mostly just inconvenient for me personally since I'm fortunate enough to be a part of a decently large guild that can take care of me, but not everyone has this luxury. A low level free to play homin who just started now faces a massive time sink of either wasting hours on a faction run (that they might not even be able to complete due to heavy aggro in high level zones) for very few cats, or grinding levels at half the speed. Grinding doesn't make the game more difficult, or more engaging. I could get behind maybe experimentally nerfing the faction point rewards but removing them completely is harsh.

And lastly, I really, really don't like the fact that it wasn't even mentioned in the patch notes. It's probably a small oversight but it *feels* like it's excluded in order to make it a sneaky nerf as not to upset the people who don't know it yet.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#30 Added by Dullahan 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Luminatrix
A low level free to play homin who just started now faces a massive time sink of either wasting hours on a faction run (that they might not even be able to complete due to heavy aggro in high level zones) for very few cats, or grinding levels at half the speed.

OMG this sounds so fun and egaging, be prepared to make the new players stick to this game and a flood of newbies in Silan because of this patch ... just imagine all those added grinding hours that mostly affect the newbies/f2p lowbies ... Kapparino pepperino.

and no, players who disagree on the NH nerf don't think that the game only revolves around the NH .. pfft!


For me doing Occs is only justifiable because of the rewards and that's it, it actually needed a buff/rebalancing, the rewards should match the grade of the Occs product handed, so a Grade VI Water Carrier should be able to earn more rewards compared to a grade II Water carrier etc.

I've read the argument that no one does missions because of the NH rewards, solution, remove NH rewards and force the players to do missions they never wanted to do in the first place.. results, even slower paced grind, more time sink (beucase those missions have level requirement and isn't really worth doing it below 150 lvls).. = fun ??? 0.0

ah yes.. this is called progress on the other side of the globe..

*Honk* *Honk*

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SW.Dulla

#31 Added by Moniq 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Luminatrix
Bitttymacod
OK -- How does one earn Faction Points under the new system? Fame and dappers can be had from the Corporal missions, but what about Faction Points?

The only thing I use them for is recharge of enchantments, but during a Boss fight, they can be crucial to success.

Package delivery quests and PvP. The first of which takes at least an hour for not that many points and the latter of which is hard to do on a level that can sustain you with crystals, unless you make an alt of the opposite faction, train it up to max level and then farm it for points.

This is not the best when you try to keep your fame good to everyone (missions, not PvP). So after you do missions for faction points, you need to do even more missions to correct lowered fames as well.

Last edited by Moniq (6 years ago)

#32 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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Imagine for marauders who wants to keep their fame at -100, they can't do a single mission.

#33 Added by Moniq 6 years ago Report | Quote[en] 

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Luminatrix
...
As for reasoning, the only thing I see from the community has been veteran players complaining that the game is "too easy". For old timers who are multimasters and have millions of dappers in their pockets, maybe. But for newbies?
...

I have no milions and no masters and I am no oldtimer compared to others. But my impression was, after I left Silan to ML, that the game is much easier than it looked. And also that the story line (introduced on Silan) was totally lost.

#34 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago Report | Quote[fr] 

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I have no millions either, I have master in craft and harvesting but reselling your "xp. grind craft items" doesn't fill your wallet anymore.
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