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Is that a good idea? / Ist das eine gute Idee? / C'est une bonne idée ?
Yes (Write what could develop positively) / Ja (Schreib, was sich positiv entwickeln könnte) / Oui (Écrivez ce qui pourrait évoluer positivement)
Atys: Gidget, Jahuu, Kaetemi, Luminatrix, Yper		 5
20.8%
No (write what would be wrong with it) / Nein (Schreib, was falsch daran wäre) / Non (écrivez ce qui ne va pas avec)
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Fyrenor, Bradbreddan, Dukenono, Hayt, Lacuna, Mermaidia, Naveruss, Revvy, Sinvaders, Sowen, Syron, Timna, Vauban		 14 (4)
58.3%
Other thoughts (write it down) / Andere Gedanken (Schreib es auf) / Autres pensées (écrivez-les)
Atys: Agy, Balkhog, Heernis, Placio		 4
16.7%
Other
Atys: Dorothee		 1
4.2%
Abstain 8
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#76 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [fr] 

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To my knowledge (I don't know much about Ranger lore characters) only Marung/Nung Horongi have been able to resurrect without the help of the high powers.

#77 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en] 

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I lack any information to most latest changes. So, does anyone know who provides ressurection on pathways? And who all could be able to? Sivanders is first I see speaking about, after long time. The only I know is from fragments of conversation or rumors. Rangers used to be source of news but there was no meeting for a long time.

Revvy
How can Homins resurrect by themselves ?

It is a bit easy in my opinion, Ranger should not have the technology to resurrect Homins, not even the energy for it.

We can discuss if Kami have technology to ressurect, however I know nothing about lifeseed care. I just tell how it was explained to me and I am unable to validate any of those information. The fact is that there are no High Powers nor Vortex on the Oflovak's road...

However this is off topic here, better to create other thread. (so please do not reply)

#78 Added by Fyrosfreddy 6 years ago [fr] 

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But ike all things Ryzom (almost), ... allaraces, factions, jools, etc. the underlying precept is "no classes, no nerfs" ... Each choice you make has no "overall" downsisde. A Fyris toon has a natural resistence to one type of spell, each race is resistant to another in an equal amount. No enalties for making a choice. The Lore is fashioned differently to fit that precept.

The mara didn't have transport system ... so one was made ***and here's the important part*** lore created to make it "equal opportunity". Perhaps not perfect but that is the underlying goal. The differences make it interesting, but in the end , that underlying precept is no advanatges / no penalties when all is considered.


So if the lore isn't complying with that ... it's the lore that needs to be evolve to do so rather than the other way around ... unless of course other chnages are instituted to offset any advantage / disadvantage.

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#79 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en] 

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We had a late night Uni talk similar to this... Who provides the ressurection at respawn points not connected to any cult? like portals, etc.. My proposal was that there are natural Atys respawns but the system has been copied/hijacked by higher powers to artificially create more spawn/teleport locations.

#80 Added by Fyrosfreddy 6 years ago [fr] 

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I think the ressurrection is powered by the entity that processes our credit card payments and PayPal. If my toon dies ... for good ... I would not wanny to regrind all my dig skills :)

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#81 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [en] 

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Placio
We had a late night Uni talk similar to this... Who provides the ressurection at respawn points not connected to any cult? like portals, etc.. My proposal was that there are natural Atys respawns but the system has been copied/hijacked by higher powers to artificially create more spawn/teleport locations.

No, it's still the high powers. And they resurrect every homin because they need them. That's it.

#82 Added by Placio 6 years ago [en] 

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#kamipropaganda

#83 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
Placio
We had a late night Uni talk similar to this... Who provides the ressurection at respawn points not connected to any cult? like portals, etc.. My proposal was that there are natural Atys respawns but the system has been copied/hijacked by higher powers to artificially create more spawn/teleport locations.

No, it's still the high powers. And they resurrect every homin because they need them. That's it.

That's what the higher powers say happens but how do we know they're telling the truth? It's not like religious cults tend to lie about the subject of their worship being able to perform miracles or anything...

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#84 Added by Sinvaders 6 years ago [fr] 

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No. It's really always the high powers who is resurrecting homins.
Players characters can think it's not the high powers etc.... but the truth is what I say: always the high powers and they why they are doing it is because they need homins regardless of their alignment.
Maybe in the ranger background their is a corner case too. (as said previously Horongi's have been able to resurrect without the powers help ... but no-one else and this powerfull ability is NOT playable by players.)

#85 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [fr] 

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Sinvaders
No. It's really always the high powers who is resurrecting homins.
Players characters can think it's not the high powers etc.... but the truth is what I say: always the high powers and they why they are doing it is because they need homins regardless of their alignment.
Maybe in the ranger background their is a corner case too. (as said previously Horongi's have been able to resurrect without the powers help ... but no-one else and this powerfull ability is NOT playable by players.)

Is there any proof of it being this way besides "it's true because I said it's true"? I've read most of the existing lore and I don't remember any.

For all we know, there might be sources of magic capable of resurrecting Homins on Atys (not that far-fetched, considering most Homins can cast magic spells) that the higher powers have simply taken control of.

It could easily be that they need homins so they hijacked the resurrection magic and claim it to be their own. Of course, this is just my perspective, as I like the idea of them not being more sinister than they let on. Just saying we don't actually know whether the power to resurrect has always been exclusively theirs or not.

Last edited by Luminatrix (6 years ago)

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#86 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en] 

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Luminatrix
Is there any proof of it being this way besides "it's true because I said it's true"? I've read most of the existing lore and I don't remember any.
Yes, the Lore slash/ Lore Team.


Since you are marauder i think, you may want to ask them who's resurrecting marauder, you may be surprised to keep fighting Kami for example :P

Obviously, Homins do not have access to this information.

About Horongi's (which is composed of Marung and Nung)

If you want more detail here:
Nung Horongi
Marung Horongi
Tribe of the Witherings and Goo
ROLEPLAY - Dossier: Marung Horongi
Amber Cube of Nung Horongi

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Spoiler

#87 Added by Luminatrix 6 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
Luminatrix
Is there any proof of it being this way besides "it's true because I said it's true"? I've read most of the existing lore and I don't remember any.
Yes, the Lore slash/ Lore Team.


Since you are marauder i think, you may want to ask them who's resurrecting marauder, you may be surprised to keep fighting Kami for example :P

Obviously, Homins do not have access to this information.

About Horongi's (which is composed of Marung and Nung)

If you want more detail here:
Nung Horongi
Marung Horongi
Tribe of the Witherings and Goo
ROLEPLAY - Dossier: Marung Horongi
Amber Cube of Nung Horongi

I see. Thank you for this information, I genuinely had no idea, as I haven't seen any information on it in the normally accessible lore one can find without doing serious digging. It's a wasted opportunity to make the higher powers more interesting in my eyes, but oh well. I wouldn't go back to being Kami even if I found out they were the ones who resurrect me, however, as I had my reasons to leave the faction when I did, but that's a discussion for another time.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#88 Added by Gidget 6 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
No. It's really always the high powers who is resurrecting homins.
Players characters can think it's not the high powers etc.... but the truth is what I say: always the high powers and they why they are doing it is because they need homins regardless of their alignment.
Maybe in the ranger background their is a corner case too. (as said previously Horongi's have been able to resurrect without the powers help ... but no-one else and this powerfull ability is NOT playable by players.)

Of course, that does not mean that those higher powers are necessarily Jena and Ma'Duk; those two may simply be fictions invented in order to manipulate Homins more readily, or for homins to "understand" the inconceivable aspects of reality. After all, what is religion if not an attempt to make sense of the incomprehensible? In fact, what I've read of the Horongis, either Jena and Ma'Duk are merely masks of the true higher power(s), or there are no higher powers and we merely use them as a framework by which to explain the universe because our science does not (yet) have a way to explain it without allegory. Now, I'm not saying that that is actually how it is, only that there is enough room in both logic and lore that it cannot be discounted as a possibility that allows for "heathens" like you and I to rise from the dead and teleport without breaking lore.

It also allows for a lore-friendly way to mix factions in a guild. Imagine a homin who knows on an intellectual level that teleportation and resurrection do not require Jena/Ma'Duk yet cannot figure out how to get out of that metaphor and thus still rely on Kara/Kami thinking. I know that some may say that such folks are actually Neutral and thus have no business ever aligning, but that's rather shortsighted. There are plenty of humans who were born and raised into a faith they no longer truly believe yet cannot break out of the only paradigm they have ever known; why should homins be any different, especially PC homins controlled by human players? Why not have an Atysian equivalent of Unitarian Universalism or Congregationalism?

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#89 Added by Revvy 6 years ago [en] 

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Luminatrix
I wouldn't go back to being Kami even if I found out they were the ones who resurrect me, however, as I had my reasons to leave the faction when I did, but that's a discussion for another time.
Not sure if you are talking about the story of your char or yourself here.. but sure, no one judge you :)

Gidget
Of course, that does not mean that those higher powers are necessarily Jena and Ma'Duk; those two may simply be fictions invented in order to manipulate Homins more readily, or for homins to "understand" the inconceivable aspects of reality. After all, what is religion if not an attempt to make sense of the incomprehensible? In fact, what I've read of the Horongis, either Jena and Ma'Duk are merely masks of the true higher power(s), or there are no higher powers and we merely use them as a framework by which to explain the universe because our science does not (yet) have a way to explain it without allegory.
You should read the Bible then, if you already did read the Lore and you end up with this sort of idea.

Imagination is good :)
But when it is written black on white by the author(s) you cannot deny it forever

Gidget
I know that some may say that such folks are actually Neutral and thus have no business ever aligning, but that's rather shortsighted. There are plenty of humans who were born and raised into a faith they no longer truly believe yet cannot break out of the only paradigm they have ever known; why should homins be any different, especially PC homins controlled by human players? Why not have an Atysian equivalent of Unitarian Universalism or Congregationalism?
Overall reading the rest, i really think you guys are mixing (voluntary?), the actual design of the game (gameplay for convenience to have fun) with the gameplay supported by the lore and the roleplay injected in game by players.
Not to mention all these massive in real life comparison about everything related to this game, Ryzom..
It is not only you Gidget, even if i use your post to talk about it.


To be back on the (closed) topics.

You want it or not, Kami and Karavan power's are not friends, and so the Homins following them.
Same goes for the resurrection gameplay mechanics which is Lore supported/driven (you can't play Nung, its a myth a legend)

The restriction for guild is purely gameplay based, it is to guide players into different paths (the nationalist, the religious.. etc), it is an engine to the game mechanics where you can choose a side white or black or blue, and play against each others to have fun OOC and to drive the story a step further IC.

In case you do not want to be part of any conflict, you may want to stay neutral in game, but you will have limitation with players that did the choice to take part in a conflict (aka been kami, kara, mara, whatevera).

Yes doing a ritual to be in a faction, is to take part in a conflict.

Now the problem nowadays is, you are entering a faction for the teleportation system it do provide.
You don't take part in the conflict, nor wish to do so.

So you are surprised and don't understand why you cannot play with your best friend forever from Karavan when you are in a Kami guild.
And then naturally cry about freedom and liberty to do whatever you feel like because you pay the game like everyone.
Factions exist since the creation of the game, and the game is based on it.

You choose this game knowing what it is from start, that is also why this post is closed and refused.

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Spoiler

#90 Added by Moniq 6 years ago [en] 

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Revvy
Now the problem nowadays is, you are entering a faction for the teleportation system it do provide.
You don't take part in the conflict, nor wish to do so.

!!!
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